Cutting 6x6 tubing, hiring help

[OMB]

It’s disheartening to hear so many of you admonishing giving those that are young, and new to the industry a chance. I’m In that position myself, and will be dedicating a good amount of time and money to educating myself(formally) in order to secure the skills I need to make a career out of welding, and hopefully providing a financially secure future for myself as a result.

Some of us young and new guys are willing to work for more than just the paycheck, some of us are humbled by our inexperience, and want to learn. Some of us aren’t smart mouthed, hot shot a-holes. It’s sad to hear that the bad apples before us have caused several potential employers to - in some cases cut us greenhorns that do care, completely out of consideration.

I guess it’s good to know though, understanding leads to less disappointment when it comes time to search for jobs. The only thing to be done is to figure out somehow to communicate this to potential employers, and hope that some interviewers might still see some good in helping to cultivate new talent.

This does in part explain the phenomenon my generation is facing I suppose, many folks my age are having trouble breaking into their industries because they don’t have, and cannot get any experience. Even for the most basic/lowest paying positions. It would stand to reason that those positions are where newcomers get experience, but with so many bad apples, and with many folks already having experience and being unemployed or underemployed, it seems like the new guys have gotten pushed out.

You sound like the exception to the norm when it comes to employees but you still probably don't see things from the owner's/manager's perspective. I had employees for over 15 years and even though there were guys that I really enjoyed work with and I would go to the ends of the earth for, there were way too many that sucked the life and resources out of me. So much was basic, stupid stuff. One insisted on having a large beer at lunch in his car within sight of the job trailer, when I confronted him he argued about being on his time, he refused to even go to the other end of the job out of sight. Had another that got indignant after 2 weeks in the industry wanted to be trained to be a foreman, before those that had been with me for years- BTW, he couldn't read a ruler! I'm certain I can come up with 50 more examples of absurdity. And it isn't just me- I knew a guy in the pipe jacking business that wanted to hand off his business to his 3 sons- one was a drug addict, one was a lazy pud that simply had a rotten attitude that he didn't start as a foreman and the last- even though he had advanced in the company- resented that he had to start out in the pits and casings... and took it out on everyone.

Read the related threads on this site for some ideas and insight, some have very good input to head you in the right direction.

[Country Metals]

I just got rid of a guy who was young, 19, took 3 years of construction at Votech... Told me that the teacher never taught him how to read a tape measure and couldn't even tell the difference between flat head, Philips, and square drive screwdrivers.... Wow how do I get so lucky. I only hired him as a good guy asked me to train him. The guy was a hard worker, when he showed up lol. 3rd week only work 1.5 days

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[ronsii]

Had similar experiences with helpers... they all talk big when you first meet em'.... want to learn, eager to help,I can drive anything!!, yeah, give me plenty of work, I need the money, got extra weekend work ? no prob

Then reality sets in: first day they are 10 minutes late...... because his girl friend had to drop the kids at school first.... and he doesn't have a license to drive(anymore).....

next day: they are only 5 minutes late... GF dropped kids a little earlier

Next day: everyone is busy and one of the trucks needs moving.... no prob have the new kid do it..... all he had to do was back it straight up about 50 feet.... guess he had never seen a trailer before, after about 8 minutes of watching him go 5 feet back with the trailer starting to turn hard then going forward and repeating this a dozen times I finally had to jump out of the excavator and do it myself....

next day: I am picking him up a few miles from his house because his ride can't get him to job on time.... he's late again!!!

next day: repeat any of the above....


And for all the talk about things he's done before and experience he's got I still had to show him pretty much every move to make.... so now I have a helper and I'm not getting anything done on time anymore because I have to keep *training* him...

he lasted about a month should have been a day.... and did I mention the smoke breaks too....

[smithdoor]

I call them 2 week wonders
Read a tape/ruler was in grammar school. Why how would Votech mis that or did he just slide through the class.
Sounds like he was drop out.

I just got rid of a guy who was young, 19, took 3 years of construction at Votech... Told me that the teacher never taught him how to read a tape measure and couldn't even tell the difference between flat head, Philips, and square drive screwdrivers.... Wow how do I get so lucky. I only hired him as a good guy asked me to train him. The guy was a hard worker, when he showed up lol. 3rd week only work 1.5 days

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[CrookedRoads]

You cant blame these kids for being useless, nowadays their parents don't teach them anything and the schools are just teaching them to be stupid. And their being raised on hot pockets and big gulps so that's not exactaly what I would consider brain food.

[smithdoor]

It works video games and living at home

The good news the ones that get off dead but will make good money

You cant blame these kids for being useless, nowadays their parents don't teach them anything and the schools are just teaching them to be stupid. And their being raised on hot pockets and big gulps so that's not exactaly what I would consider brain food.

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[MetalMan23]

You cant blame these kids for being useless, nowadays their parents don't teach them anything and the schools are just teaching them to be stupid. And their being raised on hot pockets and big gulps so that's not exactaly what I would consider brain food.

Yes you can blame them, if they wanted to learn they could, there's nothing stopping them.

[John T]

There are plenty of smart talented young guys out there... you just need to weed through the idiots.

I recently discovered this guy on youtube...

For a young guy he has a lot of knowledge to share

Simple explanations / to the point.




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[gxbxc]

we used to have some hard working young guys on here ,but the one in Alaska passed away and the young fellow in Fl. hasn't been on in a long time .

[OMB]

Had similar experiences with helpers... they all talk big when you first meet em'.... want to learn, eager to help,I can drive anything!!, yeah, give me plenty of work, I need the money, got extra weekend work ? no prob

Then reality sets in: first day they are 10 minutes late...... because his girl friend had to drop the kids at school first.... and he doesn't have a license to drive(anymore).....

next day: they are only 5 minutes late... GF dropped kids a little earlier

Next day: everyone is busy and one of the trucks needs moving.... no prob have the new kid do it..... all he had to do was back it straight up about 50 feet.... guess he had never seen a trailer before, after about 8 minutes of watching him go 5 feet back with the trailer starting to turn hard then going forward and repeating this a dozen times I finally had to jump out of the excavator and do it myself....

next day: I am picking him up a few miles from his house because his ride can't get him to job on time.... he's late again!!!

next day: repeat any of the above....


And for all the talk about things he's done before and experience he's got I still had to show him pretty much every move to make.... so now I have a helper and I'm not getting anything done on time anymore because I have to keep *training* him...

he lasted about a month should have been a day.... and did I mention the smoke breaks too....

I experimented with ways of dealing with these basic issues... I was willing to try almost anything to the point where I would ask chronically late employees "tell me when you will make it to work, not when you think you can make it", still couldn't be on time.

There are plenty of smart talented young guys out there... you just need to weed through the idiots.

l]




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Too often they soon are your competition.

Yes you can blame them, if they wanted to learn they could, there's nothing stopping them.

And I think you nailed it right there, I believe most of the crap we deal with has to do with a lack of personal responsibility. I laid out a task for a guy and later when he didn't get it right we had "why did this happen" session; one of the things he pointed out was I should have used the word "about" instead of "approximately" for a measurement, I was "using too many big words".


Another part of the personal responsibility aspect is the "chemicals" that get in the way, by far the number 1 problem seems to be drugs and alcohol- either directly or indirectly. I had a lead man that took a harsh view of John Buluishi when he ODed and died; "the guy should not have been doing it if he couldn't handle it", but after thinking about it, he's right, your vices shouldn't be impacting others.

[ronsii]

@OMB: Yeah the late thing was just insane that's why I started meeting him somewhere close to his home(me driving out of the way so I had to get up even earlier) and then he still couldn't be on time!!!(different reason now cause he couldn't blame the kids school drop off) so here is a 26 year old *kid* that lost his driving privileges(not his fault yeah right) that can't even be on time for a chauffeured ride to AND from work free!!! and then(yes there's more) he keeps whining about not having enough money for the kids school supplies,clothes,food,etc... SO the boss who's already paying him well above minimum wage advances him several hundred.... not long after that he quit.... Oh... and all the while he's smoking a couple packs a day!!!!


//rant

[Virgil5]

I'd postulate the smart 10%± have been diverted by plumbing parents and NEA members to fields of endeavor other than metal fabrication.
The diversion was easy using drugs like Adderal and Ritalin furnished by scum of the earth bottom of the barrel "Doctors".

NEA has a ZERO tolerance for any kid who fails to extrude into the dullard model and challenges a Union Member.

NEA now has 2 full generations of experimental results shuffling to and from the welfare office and a good start on the third. They even managed to cease teaching cursive so all records in that archaic scrawl would become unreadable and no longer operative. It's a full 30 years back to NEA announcing they only needed to teach a minimum because employers would teach incoming labor what was needed to do the job. It's longer back to NEA announcing they'd care about educating kids when kids paid Union dues..

[Mmock4]

Yeah, I can understand an employers viewpoint on this issue. Hiring an experienced guy, who’s willing to take the low level job, over the eager young guy with little practical experience seems just makes good business sense. For those iof us that are serious, and want it, breaking into the field can be frustratingly tough because of that however understandable.

A lot of my peers carry a sense of entitlement there’s no doubt, part of the problem is(and I’ve witnessed it through people I know personally) that my generation isn’t taking up personal responsibility until late in the game, very much in some cases caused by parents helicoptering, and lax attitude about getting their children to get out and spreading their wings.
My brothers girlfriend wasn’t forced to work(and was indeed encouraged not to) while she was in college. Her roof, groceries, transportation, fuel, insurance, everything was payed for her until she graduated at the age of 25. Then *surprise* she cant get a job because she had no work experience at all, no internships, nothing, All she had was a piece of paper that said she attended class, and took tests for four years.. she being naive to the world thought that’s all it would take to land a sweet job, in her mind getting that degree was having the hard part of the journey over, Reality check! I see the same or similar scenario played out all the time amongst my peers.

Ultimately, this is not a complaint per-se, I just hope the guys in the bosses seat will remember that they too were once trying to break into the field, and their potential was seen, cultivated, and realized. I know there’s a bunch of slackers out there, I’ve played the hard manual labor game. I’ve worked amongst the tough who were doing the best job they could, at something that sucks, just to keep meals on the table. On the other side I’ve seen the most lethargic, irresponsible, incapable, unmotivated people I’ve ever had the displeasure of meeting. Knowing the only reason they got past the interview process was because we were short handed, and short on applicants. Those types of”workers” were aggravating then, they’re even more aggravating now, knowing they have soured potential employers from considering to hire new talent.

I choose to pursue welding as my career path because:
-It’s a skill I’ve always wanted to possess
-I find working indoors, with little physical activity to be unsatisfactory.
-I think our the greatness of our nation was founded by tradesmen, and I’d like reinforce that.

No matter what the job, and I’ve worked more than a handful over the years, I’ve always strived to make sure I was an asset to whoever hired me. Sometimes the effort wasn’t noticed or appreciated by supervisors or managers slugging their way through the week, however a couple of times I was rewarded with a little bump in pay, or compliments. I’ll do my part, and hope to find somebody that see’s that I try to.

Regardless of political banner, We DO need to Make America Great Again, and keep it that way. I chose the path of a weldor because I believe we need more Drive in the industrial sector. I was pushed hard by those around me to go spend a bundle, and get a degree of some type. I was, but stopped when I started seeing my friends and family having a hard time getting a job that puts their degree to us, or getting employed low level and just scraping by because of the weight of student loans. ROI just doesn’t seem so great on the 4 year at the moment.

Anyways, I’ve gone on a long wandering rant.

I know this was originally about getting a guy to cut some 6x6 tubing, and the new hire’s incompetence. To the OP, I would say don’t give up on new guys. I am one, I would’ve told you the truth about my experience upfront, offered an unpaid training day for you to show me how to us the cutter correctly, and then continued to focus on making myself an asset to your business with the ultimate goal of giving your the impression and proof that my time and services worth more than my rate of pay.

[N2 Welding]

Kids have it so much easier today if they really want to learn. Heck there are so many online sources for information. Youtube makes learning way to easy these days. Forums are another great source of information. Sure wish I had all the online options available to High Schoolers today when I was in HS.

[ronsii]

^^ Exactly N2, I can remember taking days at the library to learn a few things *partially*, the same I can do today in a matter of hours



If I had internet when I was a kid who knows where I'd be..... probably blind and addicted to certain pics.... who knows

[Country Metals]

Ok, so he couldn't really read a tape measure, which I was helping him with, and he couldn't figure out which screwdrivers were which... But that's not why I fired him.

He would always be on his phone... It was so bad that his phone got turned off and his girlfriend called me to tell him to turn it back on so they could text all day.... I was like WTF is wrong with people. So this went on for a couple days and I tried telling him to calm it down, but then I started getting pist off when he would text then look at me and what did you tell me to do....

He came in in Thursday and before he started, he was texting... Now it wasn't 730 so he can do whatever he wanted. But I said... Are we going to start of with that **** again today. Then he got all pist off at me and 5 minutes later he said he couldn't take it anymore and that I was being mean to him. When I told him to leave it in his truck from now on... All he had to say was no, I'll put it in my truck and everything would have went on.

I blame the schools as #1 because they allow cell phones in class, and because they don't give 2 ****s about what happens to them come July 1st... Meaning first day out of school past graduation #2 parents because it is there responsibility to teach them #3 corporate America for profiting off laziness

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[Country Metals]

Kids have it so much easier today if they really want to learn. Heck there are so many online sources for information. Youtube makes learning way to easy these days. Forums are another great source of information. Sure wish I had all the online options available to High Schoolers today when I was in HS.

Everyone says they have it so hard... Well you have YouTube... I was at the end of the card catalog.... Why don't you learn from there......


But that's also the problem. I had to work to work to work to do something. I had a report to do, so I had to figure out what book, then figure out where it was, then read it. Instead of typing a few words and watching a YouTube video.

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[CrookedRoads]

Ok, so he couldn't really read a tape measure, which I was helping him with, and he couldn't figure out which screwdrivers were which... But that's not why I fired him.

He would always be on his phone... It was so bad that his phone got turned off and his girlfriend called me to tell him to turn it back on so they could text all day.... I was like WTF is wrong with people. So this went on for a couple days and I tried telling him to calm it down, but then I started getting pist off when he would text then look at me and what did you tell me to do....

He came in in Thursday and before he started, he was texting... Now it wasn't 730 so he can do whatever he wanted. But I said... Are we going to start of with that **** again today. Then he got all pist off at me and 5 minutes later he said he couldn't take it anymore and that I was being mean to him. When I told him to leave it in his truck from now on... All he had to say was no, I'll put it in my truck and everything would have went on.

I blame the schools as #1 because they allow cell phones in class, and because they don't give 2 ****s about what happens to them come July 1st... Meaning first day out of school past graduation #2 parents because it is there responsibility to teach them #3 corporate America for profiting off laziness

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I had a nephew that worked for me one summer when he was in high school and his girlfriend would text him all day long, she would start bugging him real bad around 3:00 to see when he was going to get off work. I tried to tell him that there was somthing wrong with that chick but he was ***** wipped big time and wouldn't listen to me. It was nuts and if I hadn't seen this crap with my own eyes and someone told me this story I wouldn't have believed it. That girl finally got my nephew into some trouble at school over some facebook crap with another chick and he got arrested for fighting but at least it ended that relationship.

[N2 Welding]

If I had internet when I was a kid who knows where I'd be..... probably blind and addicted to certain pics.... who knows

Lol...

[Mmock4]

Ok, so he couldn't really read a tape measure, which I was helping him with, and he couldn't figure out which screwdrivers were which... But that's not why I fired him.

He would always be on his phone... It was so bad that his phone got turned off and his girlfriend called me to tell him to turn it back on so they could text all day.... I was like WTF is wrong with people. So this went on for a couple days and I tried telling him to calm it down, but then I started getting pist off when he would text then look at me and what did you tell me to do....

He came in in Thursday and before he started, he was texting... Now it wasn't 730 so he can do whatever he wanted. But I said... Are we going to start of with that **** again today. Then he got all pist off at me and 5 minutes later he said he couldn't take it anymore and that I was being mean to him. When I told him to leave it in his truck from now on... All he had to say was no, I'll put it in my truck and everything would have went on.

I blame the schools as #1 because they allow cell phones in class, and because they don't give 2 ****s about what happens to them come July 1st... Meaning first day out of school past graduation #2 parents because it is there responsibility to teach them #3 corporate America for profiting off laziness

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Cell phones are a blessing, and a bane. Many people don’t realize mobile devices can very much be a case of “too much of a good thing”. They are great tools, but for some they are also terrible vices, addictive as drugs. People think they are doing “this and that” but you’d wonder what their reaction would be if you told them how much time they spent staring at a screen each week.

Luckily, I was born a generation early enough to be without any type of smart phone/device until I was a young adult. I pity those that have been, and will be born into the world with a smartphone in hand,and with a social media account already created for them.

I was getting bad about it, especially with the prominence of Facebook in everyone’s lives. After having an account for a year, I realized how toxic that place has gotten to be, people there show their ugliest. All while Facebook shoves advertisements down your throat one after the next. This forum is one of the few guilty pleasures I allow myself on the internet, along with YouTube, and a host of other information, and education driven websites.

But, there’s a whole lot of people out their that are slaves to the mindless drivel that is Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Clickbait “News” sites Etc. Addicted narcissisticly to their screens, their attention so fixated its a wonder they can function in the the real world at all.(Hint:Many can’t)

[Virgil5]

Farenheight 451 comes to mind.

[outdoort]

Good thread so far. Metal man, is this for a full time position? I ask because i believe myself to be in a similar position as u and ur business. Im not at the point yet off needing a full time employee, but i do hire someone to help me about every couple weeks for projects im on.

Full time employee would just be way too hard for me to manage. There a lot of days i might not be at the shop but just at home doing computer work/ cad drawings/ etc. a lot of trust would need to go into a guy to leave him alone "working" when im not there. I suggest u just hire labor help when u need it. Find a guy with a flexable schedule. The guy that helps me is in the beginning stages of his insurance broker business and untill that business keeps him busy 100% he helps me for extra cash. Labor help u can pay a lot less than ur paying ur helper too.
As for the 6"x6" tube deal. I would have had him help me get that thing up on my bandsaw and roller stand, get it leveled, rotate the head on my ellis 1800 and mitre in 30 seconds. Way quicker than ur method with the plasma torch and way more accurate. Then again, i dont know ur shop or the situation of the cuts u needed to make on that thing, but i would want the bandsaw every time for a mitre like that.
Long story short, pay a laborer 10-15 hr and forbid him to operate any tools in ur shop unless u give him thourough training on such machine. That will help with damaged equipment.
Dont be afraid to fire the guy and give another guy a shot. Id also think hiring a female welder/helper may be a good thing as girls seem more careful about what their doing and would be more likely not to damage ur equipment. Safety and not damaging my sh*t are the two most important things lol.

[OMB]

How do you guys handle one or two part timers when it comes to labor, training, safety, etc. compliance? That's a lot of administrative overhead to distribute over just a few billable hours.

[MetalMan23]

How do you guys handle one or two part timers when it comes to labor, training, safety, etc. compliance? That's a lot of administrative overhead to distribute over just a few billable hours.

I use subcontractors occasionally, all you need from them is a liability insurance cert.

[William McCormick]

I do plan on making one of those cranes, that's a good setup, I'm building a new shop soon so I'll have the opportunity to put one of those in.

I like a rolling hydraulic table myself. I make very heavy stairs and move them around and load them in a truck by myself using the hydraulic table.


Sincerely,

William McCormick