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Thread: Aluminum 1000 alloy vs 50502 replacement and weldability.

  1. #1
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    Aluminum 1000 alloy vs 50502 replacement and weldability.

    Hello.

    We are currently making aluminum (5052 alloy) panniers for motorcycles. Today we received information from our aluminum supplier that it is getting very difficult to find the 5052 here in Brazil. He suggested that we switch to the 1000 alloy. We do not know nothing about this aluminum alloy (1000 series) with the exception of what we researched on google. We would like an opinion from anyone who has worked with this aluminum. What about weldability, its resistance in the conditions that will be applied (motorcycles off-road) subject to much vibration and rain.

    So in this context what cons compared to the 5052?

    We use TIG to weld the panniers, what is the indicated rod?
    Can 1000 alloy be welded with alloy 5052?

    Thanks all.

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    Re: Aluminum 1000 alloy vs 50502 replacement and weldability.

    1xxx Series Alloys – (non-heat treatable – with ultimate tensile strength of 10 to 27 ksi) this series is often referred to as the pure aluminum series because it is required to have 99.0% minimum aluminum. They are weldable. However, because of their narrow melting range, they require certain considerations in order to produce acceptable welding procedures. When considered for fabrication, these alloys are selected primarily for their superior corrosion resistance such as in specialized chemical tanks and piping, or for their excellent electrical conductivity as in bus bar applications. These alloys have relatively poor mechanical properties and would seldom be considered for general structural applications. These base alloys are often welded with matching filler material or with 4xxx filler alloys dependent on application and performance requirements.

    Never done it but sounds like 4043 filler. Certainly the easiest to obtain. One could shear strips for filler, too.

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    Re: Aluminum 1000 alloy vs 50502 replacement and weldability.

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    Re: Aluminum 1000 alloy vs 50502 replacement and weldability.

    1100 is really soft stuff. And when welded even softer. It welds as well as 5052 but I think I would choose a filler that is not dependent on base metal dilution for strength. 4043 can be very brittle. 5356 already has strength enhancers and is not base metal dilution dependent for strength. 5356 is also more ductile than the 4000 series fillers, and freezes faster than 1100 so would be less susceptible to solidification cracking.

    What is the finish your panniers are going to get?
    Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR"
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    Re: Aluminum 1000 alloy vs 50502 replacement and weldability.

    Thank you all for the informations!

    Quote Originally Posted by shovelon View Post
    1100 is really soft stuff. And when welded even softer. It welds as well as 5052 but I think I would choose a filler that is not dependent on base metal dilution for strength. 4043 can be very brittle. 5356 already has strength enhancers and is not base metal dilution dependent for strength. 5356 is also more ductile than the 4000 series fillers, and freezes faster than 1100 so would be less susceptible to solidification cracking.

    What is the finish your panniers are going to get?
    I did some more research and came to the conclusion that this alloy is not suitable for our product. Let's try to find 6061.

    The finish is always with automotive vinyl adhesive.

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    Re: Aluminum 1000 alloy vs 50502 replacement and weldability.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalzani Lima View Post
    Thank you all for the informations!



    I did some more research and came to the conclusion that this alloy is not suitable for our product. Let's try to find 6061.

    The finish is always with automotive vinyl adhesive.
    With 6061, if you do any brake bending, be prepared to increase your bend radius to 3x material thickness, or thereabouts, to prevent cracking on the bend.
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    Re: Aluminum 1000 alloy vs 50502 replacement and weldability.

    I don't know all that much about welding Aluminum but what I do know is that 1100 series Aluminum is used in the copper aluminum fins that you find in Air Conditioners. If you've never dealt with them they are extremely soft and malleable. It could be because they are kinda thin but I really don't think it would hold up well if put on a RMZ frame. I could be wrong but the only real way to tell is to build a sample part with it and conduct a very rigorous test on it yourself. Make sure your the one doing the test so that way if it fails the only person getting hurt is you. If it holds up good after beating the living crap out of what ever it is you made, then you know you can start using it in production. If all else fails I hear Texas is nice.

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    Re: Aluminum 1000 alloy vs 50502 replacement and weldability.

    They can't supply any 3XXX stuff? 6061 is miserable to put in a brake. 6063 would be much better but finding it in sheet I'm guessing is out of the question for you as it is for me.
    Last edited by Yofish; 07-27-2018 at 12:26 AM.

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    Re: Aluminum 1000 alloy vs 50502 replacement and weldability.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yofish View Post
    They can't supply any 3XXX stuff? 6061 is miserable to put in a brake. 6063 would be much better but finding it in sheet I'm guessing is out of the question for you as it is for me.
    6061-t4 has similar bending characteristics as 5052-H32. Finding it though may be the problem.
    Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR"
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    Re: Aluminum 1000 alloy vs 50502 replacement and weldability.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalzani Lima View Post
    Hello.

    We are currently making aluminum (5052 alloy) panniers for motorcycles. Today we received information from our aluminum supplier that it is getting very difficult to find the 5052 here in Brazil. He suggested that we switch to the 1000 alloy. We do not know nothing about this aluminum alloy (1000 series) with the exception of what we researched on google. We would like an opinion from anyone who has worked with this aluminum. What about weldability, its resistance in the conditions that will be applied (motorcycles off-road) subject to much vibration and rain.

    So in this context what cons compared to the 5052?

    We use TIG to weld the panniers, what is the indicated rod?
    Can 1000 alloy be welded with alloy 5052?

    Thanks all.
    I would look for a different supplier.
    5052 is perfect for that.
    1000 series is crap. 3000 series would be your next logical choice for a weldment. After that it's all compromises.
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  11. #11
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    Re: Aluminum 1000 alloy vs 50502 replacement and weldability.

    Quote Originally Posted by FusionKing View Post
    I would look for a different supplier.
    5052 is perfect for that.
    1000 series is crap. 3000 series would be your next logical choice for a weldment. After that it's all compromises.
    Ok... What did I find out?

    The only aluminum plant in Brazil, now only wants to manufacture sheets for coke cans or thicker sheets. Sad. Sheets of a thin thickness of 5052 only can be obtained from some supplier who has stock (yet). And these suppliers (not many) have raised the price from 7 US $ per kilo to almost 12 US $. AND... One of Brazil's leading suppliers has filed for bankruptcy and closed the doors of its 26 facilities.

    We bought 5052 1.5mm from some suppliers (where the price was not abusive) and we have now the enough for 2 months of work. The market is already adjusting itself to import these plates from China which should take about 2 months ... So with a little luck everything will return to "normal". We expect.

    BUT ... 2mm sheets can only be found in the alloy 3005 and then another question arises:

    The 2mm sheet will be welded in overlap on the 1.5mm sheet. Should I expect problems? Can I still use the 5356 or 4043 filler rod would be better in this case? Currently in this same configuration but both sheets of 5052 there are no problems.

    We did an experiment in this configuration (3005 2mm sheet overlaping to 5052 1.5mm sheet) with two single pieces. I did tacks (with no filler) every inch and still the 2mm plate pulls up A LOT and breaks the tacks. This is very rare with two plates of 5052. (1.5mm - 2.0mm). I am afraid that the expansiveness of the 3005 and 5052 is perhaps very different and results in this problem.

    "This test was not performed on the boxes we assembled (not yet laser cut for this new configuration/alloy) but as said above in two separate parts then maybe another factor that I neglected is the problem."

    Thanks All... Again!
    Last edited by Dalzani Lima; 08-03-2018 at 02:25 PM.

  12. #12
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    Re: Aluminum 1000 alloy vs 50502 replacement and weldability.

    Maybe you need to restrain the two pieces together. Any filler addition will improve the weldability, but I always prefer 5356 due to it's higher strength and ductility.
    Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR"
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