Is an oldschool Kalamazoo 300 band saw any good and worth fixing up?

[Lis2323]

Put a mark on your blade. If you know it’s length and count the rpms you can figure out your FEET per MINUTE which is what you’re really after.

This is what I used for a chip brush on my Ellis. I asked my dentist for an extra tooth brush last time I was there. They get them free anyway.



Note: since the photo was taken I’m upgrading to a DIY compressed air chip clearing/blade cooling system.

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[distrbd]

Here's the manual for 610:
http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=3874

[N2 Welding]

distrbd thank you for the user manual and the picture of the motor mounting. I mounted mine like that but the adjusting knob is on the inside so it is easier to push the motor to put tension on the belt. I know I have it mounted correctly now and only need a long enough bolt to secure it at the bottom where it swivels.

The manual calls for a 7’5” x 1/2” x .025” belt and that puts it at about 89” long which is about what I have been seeing when I google blades for the 610.

Thank you Lis for the pic of you blade brush and explaing length times rpm description for determining the blade spd. The guy I bought the saw from runs a big material handling shop and he has been with the company for many years. He was in Benicia, CA but said he used the saw way back in the day in their Oakland , CA facility and he remembered the brushes being like a bunch of bristles made out of material like that of a paper staple.

[Lis2323]

You could also make a rotary one out of a small rotary wire brush for die grinders or dremel tools. Cheap on eBay

[N2 Welding]

Maybe a couple of small wire brushes would do the trick. Something like these. https://www.harborfreight.com/steel-...ush-69525.html

[Lis2323]

My toothbrush from the dentist was 79 cents cheaper.

Plus it’s always fun to flirt with the cute hygienist. Keeping in mind they don’t get paid enough to humor old guys like me......


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[N2 Welding]

looking at my blade options atm. Below are the three makes I am considering but have no knowledge of what I’m looking for. In theory I should stay with a thinner .025” blade in an attempt to keep the saw from stalling in a cut. I also have no idea if I should get a 14tpi, 14/18 tpi or a 18tpi blade. I rarely cut anything over 1/4” but projects change as does life.

Lenox: Diemaster II Bi-Metal I read on another forum that this was a decent overal cost effective blade. At almost $40 It better be

Starret
Morse

[N2 Welding]

My toothbrush from the dentist was 79 cents cheaper.

Plus it’s always fun to flirt with the cute hygienist. Keeping in mind they don’t get paid enough to humor old guys like me......


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Something else I need to do but putting it off.

[Virgil5]

Dollar store has 3 paks of brushes- use the brass brush and save the other 2. Cut brush head to size and make mounts..
Motor is 1725. Speed is not your friend.
Thin blades are NOT your friends, but they do have a purpose. Thin blades work best on small diameter drive wheels.
Blades get stuck in the cut when the material is clamped in the machine wrong. Saws are designed to use gravity to keep the cut open, you put a jack on the enf past the saw you'll bind the blade up.
Second reason blades get bound is the blade has lost its set, usually from being pushed past capacity by a speed freak. No set means the cut is narrower and the blade binds. No different from a hand hacksaw.

Loss of set is a big reason for blades breaking too.
Second cause of broken blades is stress cracking. Face it, you're bending and straightening a steel band a few thousand times in every cut, stress is expected.
That machine is a dry cutter, so additional stress is built in due to heat.
Yes, you can rig up a lube system. It won't help much and it will kill the tires faster, but it can be done.
You can minimize stress with good tires on the saw.
They are available from a few suppliers, and you can spend a day deciding if you'll replace with rubber or poly.

Keeping the cut straight was never a big feature on Kals. It is best accomplished by getting the downfeed speed correct.
Downfeed is also very important to keeping the teeth attached to the blade.

[N2 Welding]

Good info Virgil thank you. I Still need to grab some oil. Would purple power work as good as simple green or would it be too harsh?

I was reading the manual until the bat on my tanlet died. I was at the part that talks about how the downforce should be set at about 8 lbs with the spring on the back.

I dont think there are any tires rubber or plastic on the blade wheels.

[Virgil5]

8 pounds sounds a little heavy to me, are they specifying where the measurment is taken? 8 might be good cutting soft metal like alu or Cu, but as I recall those machines going heavy on downforce makes the blade walk sideways.

The face of the driver should tell the story on a tire if there is there is no info in the book. You should still see a definite back flange like a Railroad wheel has and 2 or 3 definite cuts (not wear cuts) to prevent contact of the face with the teeth. If tooth grooves aren't there the machine was built with a tire to accomplish that task.

Been a while since I ran a Kal, and I'm still trying to recall how we put a cheater pedal on it to lift the blade arm easily. I do remember burning a lot of additional rod because they put a speedfreak on the saw and every dam cut went sideways.

Kal vises were nothing to write home about either.

[N2 Welding]

If the nut is bad on the clamp I will see if I can adapt something from an old C Clamp and threaded rod.

The weight was taken from the end of the saw opposite of the motor at the end of the frame. Manual says to use a fish scale to test weight and tension spring accordingly or replace spring if weight can not be adjusted properly. That does not count for the hydraulic dampening either. Down feed speed should be set on hydro cylinder according to the material thickness. It claims the thicker the material the more down feed spd required.

I’ll go take a picture of the wheels and a picture of the manual where it talks about setting the weight.

[Virgil5]

Grab a quick measurement of distance from the fulcrum to the point of blade contact with the material being cut and a measurement of distance from fulcrum to fish scale and I can come pretty close to cyphering the actual engagement pressure of blade to material.
8 pounds at the end of the blade frame is definitely more than 8 pounds at engagement. High engagement force will kill blade life and cause blade walking.

Last band I looked closely at is in a steel cut shop, and has a TV telling the man operating it a whole lot more information than he pays any attention to. It not only measures the piece, downforce is varied by the computer to provide soft engagement and increase force at the point teeth are fully into the bar as well as when full blade depth in the bar is reached. Man running it said it cuts pretty straight and gets good blade life. Also said when it don't he gets on the phone to somebody someplace who screws with the computer and asks him how the cut looks. It ain't rocket science yet, but it's getting there.

Didn't you mention earlier on there is also a problem with your cylinder?

[N2 Welding]

Yes there is a problem with the cylinder. It don't work for $hit it is what is suppose to hold the saw up while placing material in it and lining the blade up with the cut line on the material. I see part numbers in the manual for rebuilding it but don't know what all it needs and what is available.

The fist pic is the set up instructions: Under Feed Pressureit talks about setting up the spring weight.

One wheel has a tire and that is the floating wheel. The drive wheel is bare steel.

[N2 Welding]

Here is a better pic of the drive wheel and one of how the motor sits on the saw.

Attachment 1692489
Attachment 1692490

[N2 Welding]

Try this again.

[Virgil5]

Well, just KRAP. Somebody call Houston and tell all them tie wearing white shirts we got a problem. That'll keep em off my *** while we get the machine running good.

Problem 1 is the cylinder. It ain't a whole lot more complex than the cylinder that regulates a screen door closing. Reality is it's just a hydraulic or pneumatic cylinder and a valve.

Problem 2 is the drive wheel - read more of the book and look for information on tires or whatever they called em back in 1955.

If that machine wasn't built for a drive tire, it was built to run only a single width blade with the teeth sticking out past the wheel so the blade don't self destruct riding around the wheel. That blade width is determined by the distance across the face of the wheel from curb to edge of wheel.

Problem 3, I still need fulcrum to points speced distances.

BTW, slipped my ancient mind residue. DON'T use Purple power unless you want to watch paint go away. The Purple product is highly caustic and doesn't easily rinse off anything short of a submnarine traveling at depth for a month.

[Lis2323]

For some reason I can’t access your latest pics. Are you saying the drive wheel is all steel but the idler is rubber “tired”?

Most metal saws I’m familiar with have all metal drive drive and idler OR steel with rubber like Ellis.

IMO metal saws with rubber tires should never use coolant or wax stick as the chips will embed in the rubber. Maybe not so bad with yours if the DRIVE wheel is steel as the blade engages it first immediately after the cut.

Walter lube stick on my import 7”x12”. I ditched the messy coolant system years ago.




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[N2 Welding]

Ok gotcha about the purple power cleaner.

I don't know how to measure the fulcrum LOL... I don't have a blade so how do I measure that? I'll have to find a way to prop it up so I can measure.

[N2 Welding]

Lis the idler is cast with some kind of thin tire. Not sure of the material could be leather for all I know because I just don't know. The drive wheel is either missing the tire or never had one. Once again IDK.

[N2 Welding]

I'm under the impression only 1/2" wide blades are to be used on this saw.

[Virgil5]

Grab a samn ruler.
Fulcrum is the hinge pin point for want of another descriptor.

Blade length is easy, grab a hunk of steel skid strapping or the wife's dressmaking tape and measure it. If you get BUSTED make a run to Joanne Fabrics or a "Notions" shop in your town.

You're a long way from needing a blade, unless you're in a hurry to bust a blade.

If it was my job, I'd be attending to the cylinder right after measuring the contact face of the drive wheel. You could also cheat and measure the contact face between the curbs on the idler wheel, but that wouldn't be as accurate.

You Califoolya guys is tough to work with, probably too much solar gain to your pate collector caused Dain Bramage. Least that's what one Master Journeyman out there claimed for years.

[N2 Welding]

Ok you have to remember I'm not a professional fabricator, I just wing it and learn as I go. So I have no formal edu of metal working verbiage and even if I did learn it in school my memory card was built from scap PC's from before dos was introduced. Basically my memory is very limited. I lived in TX from 5th grade until I came back out here to graduate my senior year. Was getting into trouble out there and took the initiative to get out while I still could before $hit hit the fan. How about I use some electrical tape to rap around the wheels for measurements. By the way I don't always understand your lingo, I have to read and re read it several times on occasion to try and understand what you are saying. Going to visit with family for dinner BBQ so I'll be back later so I can re read how to get the fulcrum measurements for you.

As far as the blade length it is a 89" x 1/2" x .025" per the manual.

[wb4rt]

Just got home and verified my saw is also a Kalamazoo 610.

Here are some pictures that may help you. Feel free to ask questions and I try to look at my saw to help you.

I apologize for sideways pictures. I never seem to get them oriented right.










Also, neither of my wheels have tires or bands, just steel wheels.
Do you need the rpm off motor?

[N2 Welding]

Just got home and verified my saw is also a Kalamazoo 610.

Here are some pictures that may help you. Feel free to ask questions and I try to look at my saw to help you.

I apologize for sideways pictures. I never seem to get them oriented right.










Also, neither of my wheels have tires or bands, just steel wheels.
Do you need the rpm off motor?

OK good to know you don't have bands on your wheels. Yes operating RPM of the motor would be nice. Just want to verify the motor is somewhat correct.

Have about 30 minutes before we leave.