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Thread: Should this happen with this metal, these rods?

  1. #1
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    Should this happen with this metal, these rods?

    I'm using 6011 3/32 x 1" rods on mild steel rod 7/16" diameter and 2" long, welding it down onto a flat side of a length of mild steel 2" x 3/32" angle iron. At 65A.

    I use a whole rod for that weld. 2" along one side of the rod and it goes maybe 1.5" down the other side before it dies.

    The thing is the whole rod glows cherry red, even maybe shading to yellow, before I've finished. The mild steel rod I mean, not the welding rod.

    Is that to be expected ?
    Last edited by abrogard; 08-23-2019 at 05:29 AM.

  2. #2
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    Re: Should this happen with this metal, these rods?

    A 3/32 rod is not meant to make more than 6-8 inches of weld head. Are you really trying to get more than 2 feet out of one?
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    Re: Should this happen with this metal, these rods?

    I think 2 inches,,, but,,, red is good in some sense, its all melted together Use 1/8 rod though.

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    Re: Should this happen with this metal, these rods?

    Quote Originally Posted by abrogard View Post
    I'm using 6011 3/32 x 1" rods on mild steel rod 7/16" diameter and 2" long, welding it down onto a flat side of a length of mild steel 2" x 3/32" angle iron. At 65A.

    I use a whole rod for that weld. 2" along one side of the rod and it goes maybe 1.5" down the other side before it dies.

    The thing is the whole rod glows cherry red, even maybe shading to yellow, before I've finished. The mild steel rod I mean, not the welding rod.

    Is that to be expected ?
    .
    obviously you do not have to run 6011 3/32 at 65 amps and can use less amps. and many machines knob might say 65 but you can easily be actually getting 55 to 75 amps. amps is adjusted to conditions and using less amps for thin parts and small parts and stopping to let part cool occasionally then continuing to weld is normal.
    .
    i took weld test at 265 amps for 7018 1/8 rod. or at least thats what the amp knob said but obviously i was actually closer to 110 amps. i asked about that and was told. if taking a weld test welder needs to be able to recognize correct amps by looking at arc and weld puddle not by trusting amp knob

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    Re: Should this happen with this metal, these rods?

    Quote Originally Posted by Louie1961 View Post
    A 3/32 rod is not meant to make more than 6-8 inches of weld head. Are you really trying to get more than 2 feet out of one?
    By his dimensions, he would be getting 3.5" of weld using a 1" long welding rod. Sounds as if he found a bunch of rod butts, because I don't know if you can buy new rods that are only 1" long, 1' long, yes, but not 1".

    But to try to answer your question, IF you are using 3/32" dia. rods that are 12" long and your welds are 2" on one side and 1.5" on the other for a total weld length of 3.5" then YES the 7/16" dia. rod will be red hot when done welding. Like Louie said, you should be able to get 6-8" of weld from that rod and your barely getting half that. You should be able to weld down 2 of those 7/16" dia. rods with one welding rod. BTW this " is the symbol for inches and this ' is the one for feet so as not to cause confusion with your dimensions later.

  6. #6
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    Re: Should this happen with this metal, these rods?

    Where does one purchase 1" long welding electrodes, and why? I often save short stubs for tacking in tight quarters, but 1" ain't enough to stick in your eye.

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    Re: Should this happen with this metal, these rods?

    Aaahh... I meant 12" long. But you knew that. My mistake.

    And no, I'm not trying to get 2 feet out of one rod.

    You all know where I'm at, surely? It's a standard 12" rod and I'm laying down 3.5" of weld and the welded rod is getting red hot.

    With a 6011 at 65A.

    Now today I did the same job with a 4313 and it didn't heat up at all that I could see. Not a bit.

    And with the 4313 I could see penetration on the back side of the metal I'd welded onto.

    With the 6011 - which is supposed to be a deep penetrating rod - I saw very little evidence of that.

    With the 4313 I was really digging in which I never do with the 6011. I'm not sure why. Just thought of it now while writing this. Maybe the 6011 goes out when you dig in, contact the metal? I dunno. I'll try tomorrow.

    I'm thinking maybe the whole thing is something to do with my crappy welding technique. That's what I'm expecting to hear back from you guys.

    My icon here says 'journeyman', don't be fooled by that. I'm no journeyman tradesman. I'm a mug part time diy self taught talentless welder, that's who you're talking to here. If you didn't already figure that out.

    And I'm not getting email notification of your replies. something else I've screwed up on I guess... I'll look into that...


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    Re: Should this happen with this metal, these rods?

    The "journeyman" label under your username has nothing to do with your skill level, but everything to do with the number of posts you have made. You made mention of 4313 electrodes, that's a new one on me, just what is that rod?
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    Re: Should this happen with this metal, these rods?

    AS/NZS 4313 AWS 6013

    It is a very common GP rod hereabouts. Welding stores have it as the main rod and hardware stores and such carrying only one rod will probably have it.

    I've heard it denigrated on those excellent online videos teaching welding. Well perhaps not 'denigrated' but spoken of as a 'beginner' rod that the speaker hasn't used since welding school decades ago.


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  10. #10
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    Re: Should this happen with this metal, these rods?

    That's 6013, or junkyard rod in the U.S., IMO go back to the 6011, or go to 7018 or 7014.
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    Re: Should this happen with this metal, these rods?

    Why? You just don't like rutile rods?

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    Re: Should this happen with this metal, these rods?

    Quote Originally Posted by abrogard View Post
    Why? You just don't like rutile rods?
    its just they don't get used for industry anymore especially in USA. so they get rubbished. hence you hear everything about 6010 and 7018 but nothing else.

    6011 can put out some heat which is probably why your metal ended up glowing so much. especially if you long arc it.
    penetration, i would have to see pics before making a call on that. so much can depend on operator use.
    for me i like 6011 for welding on dirty stuff i can't clean. 6013 is great on thin wall tubing, especially if you want good looking welds.
    otherwise 7016 or 7018 is the go, but availability of hobby sized packs is often the issue for me.

  13. #13
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    Re: Should this happen with this metal, these rods?

    Quote Originally Posted by abrogard View Post
    Why? You just don't like rutile rods?
    I just don't care for 6013, just a personal preference.
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    Re: Should this happen with this metal, these rods?

    I'm not sure (I'm very much a backyard amateur diy bloke ) but aren't the 16's and 18's low hydrogen rods that because of that require keeping in a controlled atmosphere - making them a bit of a problem for the home bloke who might not use rods for weeks or even months on end?

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    Re: Should this happen with this metal, these rods?

    Quote Originally Posted by abrogard View Post
    I'm not sure (I'm very much a backyard amateur diy bloke ) but aren't the 16's and 18's low hydrogen rods that because of that require keeping in a controlled atmosphere - making them a bit of a problem for the home bloke who might not use rods for weeks or even months on end?
    16 and 18's are lowhy but unless your doing code or structural work then it doesn't matter to much. just don't let them get damp and they will run ok. the primary reason for baking them etc is to drive out moisture so it has its lowhy ability. so home guys can still use them fine without an oven etc.

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    Re: Should this happen with this metal, these rods?

    I get it... they'll run okay if not kept in an oven but they'll not make a perfect weld is all ?

    But it'll be a good enough weld for non-code, non-structural purposes?

    I've never ever used one. I'll give them a try.
    Last edited by abrogard; 08-25-2019 at 01:10 AM.

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    Re: Should this happen with this metal, these rods?

    Quote Originally Posted by abrogard View Post
    But it'll be a good enough weld for non-code, non-structural purposes?

    I've never ever used one. I'll give them a try.
    exactly.
    plenty on here do normal projects with them.
    my only issue is finding small packs of them. i think lincoln make some in small foil packs.
    BOC has 16's that are just in a cardboard box.

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    Re: Should this happen with this metal, these rods?

    I've seen several recommendations for different rods for you to try, but we have no idea of what kind of equipment you have, some rods are DC only, 7018 has varieties for AC or DC, I'm not sure about 7016. Regular 7018 can be very difficult to run on an AC welder unless it has a high OCV, I have never tried 7016, though I would like to.
    LO-HY rods are fine stored in a garage for most purposes, and anything the average Joe would do, back in the day I saw welders drag a 50lb 7018 (LH70) to a job, use maybe as much as 5 lbs, toss the can in the corner and leave it for the labor crew to throw out., had I known at the time that I would someday own a welder that would run those rods I could have gotten literally tons of them. That was in a time before there was a designated 7018AC.
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  19. #19
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    Re: Should this happen with this metal, these rods?

    Ironworkers used to say,,, buy an AC machine have to buy rods. Made the 100 more at the time a bargain for a DC.

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    Re: Should this happen with this metal, these rods?

    I've occasionally run 3/32 7018 at somewhere around 115-125amps (or something around that high), and the rod will start to droop in the stinger. It begins to soften at that heat. I should think that the 6011 might get real hot at high amps...…………..but not 65amps Maybe if you're running it uninterrupted, but I dunno.

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    Re: Should this happen with this metal, these rods?

    Aw Hell!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You said the BASE METAL is glowing red...………...perfectly normal for a hot weld concentrated in a small area.

    In fact, a hot weld will show a heat signature on the backside of the weld when it cools down. The steel will be blue along the line where the bead is on the opposite side.

    This is an example of a good heat signature...………

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Size:  148.9 KB You better believe that metal was glowing red when I finished the weld Some serious heat. And quite normal for the weld made in that position (uphill with slow travel). I LIKE TO SEE THAT ON A WELD, I KNOW IT'S GOT GOOD FUSION.

  22. #22
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    Re: Should this happen with this metal, these rods?

    Another thing you might want to think about...…………...round stock dissipates heat slower than thin flat stock. A round will get very hot, and retain the heat, when welding. Especially in the smaller diameter round you're welding. You're fineName:  tkqe4fh-smiley-two-thumbs-up175028_285604.gif
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  23. #23
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    Re: Should this happen with this metal, these rods?

    Can you show pics of what your welding and what part is turning red?



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