Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 40

Thread: Engine welder generator question

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    =
    Posts
    56
    Post Thanks / Like

    Engine welder generator question

    As I am watching the news about the power outages in California, I am interested in setting up a backup generator for my house. We don't have natural gas at the property so propane or gasoline/diesel.

    Now the exciting question is to get an engine welder that can be used as a generator in an emergency. The house main panel is 150A so 18kW is the peak usage, but in a pinch we can do probably with ~12kW.

    Any suggestions? Would a Trailblazer 325 do? Other recommendations? Thanks.
    HTP Invertig 221H w/ CK20 water cooled torch
    Hypertherm Powermax 45XP
    Optrel Crystal 2.0

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Bossier Parish La.
    Posts
    5,870
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Engine welder generator question

    My house has a 200 amp breaker panel, yet I can power most of the house with my 8KW Bobcat 225. So you may be able to get by with less than a 12 KW unit. The only thing mine won't pull is the outside AC compressor. Everything else it can handle, including an electric clothes dryer while washing a load of clothes, so that means running a 240V well pump, too. I connect mine by way of a manual buss transfer switch.
    Attached Images Attached Images   

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    ct.
    Posts
    1,260
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Engine welder generator question

    I bought the Hobart at Tractor Supply. Rated 11kw peak.
    10 kw .$2900 before tax. Similar to Bobcat without CV.
    Wanted back-up power and an excuse to have an engine
    drive welder. Welder works well. Haven’t needed back-up power
    since I bought it.(of course).
    Miller a/c-d/c Thunderbolt XL
    Millermatic 180
    Purox O/A
    Smith Littletorch O/A
    Hobart Champion Elite

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    4,060
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Engine welder generator question

    That trailblazer is going to run at 2400-3600 RPM. Unless you have a very specific need for an engine drive welder, I would think you might be better served by an 1800 RPM diesel generator. something like this.

    http://www.centralmainediesel.com/or...sp?page=1250TS

    It has 33-60% more fuel efficiency that the trailblazer when used for auxiliary power (1.3 gph versus 0.7 gph at half load), and slower turning diesels can run longer between maintenance windows. I am sure it will run your invertig. Plus the trailblazer isn't a true 12KW generator. it is 10.5KW unit that can surge to 12KW for short periods of time.
    Syncrowave 250
    Purox Metalmaster

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    456
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Engine welder generator question

    Quote Originally Posted by Louie1961 View Post
    That trailblazer is going to run at 2400-3600 RPM. Unless you have a very specific need for an engine drive welder, I would think you might be better served by an 1800 RPM diesel generator. something like this.

    http://www.centralmainediesel.com/or...sp?page=1250TS

    It has 33-60% more fuel efficiency that the trailblazer when used for auxiliary power (1.3 gph versus 0.7 gph at half load), and slower turning diesels can run longer between maintenance windows. I am sure it will run your invertig. Plus the trailblazer isn't a true 12KW generator. it is 10.5KW unit that can surge to 12KW for short periods of time.
    No argument that a diesel prime power generator is better than something like the Bobcat, but you're talking almost twice the price.

    I suspect most fairly normal houses can get by on 10Kw if they don't try running a large AC unit. We have a 20Kw standby Generac on natural gas that can power everything, including a 4 ton central AC unit, but that pushes it close to the max.
    Check out my bench vise website:
    http://mivise.com


    Miller Syncrowave 250DX
    Millermatic 350P
    Spoolmatic 30A
    Hobart Champion Elite
    Everlast PowerTig 210EXT

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Northern Cal., Shasta County
    Posts
    9,407
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Engine welder generator question

    I can run my small 1200 sq ft house easy off a 7500 gasoline. No air conditioning tho, propane hot water, swamp cooler & propane heat. Fridge, and freezer and all the lights you want. Electric dryer makes the genset moan a little if other things are going at the same time. I can see where a family with all electric everything could have a hard time with anything less than a 7 or 8 kw. Multiple members can make it tuff to control what all goes on at one time. Us two old folks are kinda synced up on what can and can't be done at the same time.

    Hair dryers, vacuum cleaners, dryer, electric hot water, electric heat, freezer kicks on, fridge kicks on, lights on in every room,,,,,,,,,, things a family has to think about. I know a few families where 'thinking' just isn't part of the dailey routine.
    "The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    2,619
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Engine welder generator question

    Quote Originally Posted by koenbro View Post
    Now the exciting question is to get an engine welder that can be used as a generator in an emergency. The house main panel is 150A so 18kW is the peak usage, but in a pinch we can do probably with ~12kW.
    I doubt you ever get even close to that. Try this. Look at your electric bill for how many kWh you use in a month. Divide that figure by 720 to get your average kW usage. Multiply it by say 5 and that should cover your basic needs (assuming you don't normally do a lot of aluminum welding during blackouts).

    Just because you have a 150A panel doesn't mean you use 150A continuously, or even ever. Service here is 200A but average usage is about 0.5 kW or 4A.

    If you get a generator and find that it isn't big enough, you can always turn off the HW heater as needed, or weld less aluminum during blackouts.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    4,060
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Engine welder generator question

    No argument that a diesel prime power generator is better than something like the Bobcat, but you're talking almost twice the price.
    More expensive for sure but not 2x the cost. List on the trailblazer is right around $6K. That Isuzu 12KW I listed to is $8.4K before add ons. A 10KW Kubota diesel is $6.5K before add ons. The trailblazer really isn't a 12KW unit,
    Syncrowave 250
    Purox Metalmaster

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    456
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Engine welder generator question

    Quote Originally Posted by Louie1961 View Post
    More expensive for sure but not 2x the cost. List on the trailblazer is right around $6K. That Isuzu 12KW I listed to is $8.4K before add ons. A 10KW Kubota diesel is $6.5K before add ons. The trailblazer really isn't a 12KW unit,
    By the time you can actually use the diesel generator you're going to have between $9K and $10K in it. Just adding a fuel tank you'll be at $9K. So fine...$6K versus $9-10K. At the very least you're talking 50% more.

    I didn't say the TB was a 12Kw unit, I said most people can probably get by with 10Kw. Seeing as how the OP is in Phoenix I would suggest a careful load study being really honest. If the power goes out in August he's going to want the AC going!
    Check out my bench vise website:
    http://mivise.com


    Miller Syncrowave 250DX
    Millermatic 350P
    Spoolmatic 30A
    Hobart Champion Elite
    Everlast PowerTig 210EXT

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Brethren, Mi
    Posts
    1,033
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Engine welder generator question

    I bet its better than 12K. Maybe not continuous ,,, maybe,,, but welding machines got lots of poop and are heavy duty. I have a little Lincoln 210, 16 hp single cyl rated at 6000 generator, starts a 5 hp motor.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Northern Cal., Shasta County
    Posts
    9,407
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Engine welder generator question

    Just as an aside note; in this area up here one zone was out for 56 hours, another 60 hours and one 88 hours. Some on the other side of the valley may have been more or less, not sure. At commiefornia gas prices long outages can get spendy. Of course loss of food in the freezer can get spendy too.
    "The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    9,464
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Engine welder generator question

    My 302 Trailblazer runs everything I need in my house. As mentioned at full load you could use a gallon of gasoline a hour.
    A dedicated generator will be more economical for sure.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    2,619
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Engine welder generator question

    Quote Originally Posted by BD1 View Post
    My 302 Trailblazer runs everything I need in my house. As mentioned at full load you could use a gallon of gasoline a hour.
    A dedicated generator will be more economical for sure.
    My 251D gives 26A / 3kW and I suspect you could run it for several days before you'd need to add diesel fuel. 3kW is a bit light for a whole house, but in an emergency where you just wanted to keep your head above water, you can run the fridge and a few other things for 4 hours, then run some other things for 4 hours, lather rinse repeat...the machine sips fuel and never breaks a sweat (runs at 1850rpm all day every day, regardless of load, gotta love diesels)...

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Bossier Parish La.
    Posts
    5,870
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Engine welder generator question

    Quote Originally Posted by BD1 View Post
    My 302 Trailblazer runs everything I need in my house. As mentioned at full load you could use a gallon of gasoline a hour.
    A dedicated generator will be more economical for sure.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    But a dual purpose machine, welder/generator is easier to justify the purchase of over a one purpose (generator) machine. Having an engine drive welder you can take anywhere you need it, to use for what ever welding job that may come up, may make more sense in the overall scheme of things, too. Why limit yourself to a one trick pony? Although I admit, I also have an 8KW generator that can supply back up power as much as the BC can. The BC is an 18 HP unit and the generator is 16, so not a LOT of difference in fuel consumption over the long haul, but a BIG difference in what it can be used for.
    Last edited by Bistineau; 10-13-2019 at 09:37 PM.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Mount Tabor VT
    Posts
    7,003
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Engine welder generator question

    Quote Originally Posted by koenbro View Post
    As I am watching the news about the power outages in California, I am interested in setting up a backup generator for my house. We don't have natural gas at the property so propane or gasoline/diesel.

    Now the exciting question is to get an engine welder that can be used as a generator in an emergency. The house main panel is 150A so 18kW is the peak usage, but in a pinch we can do probably with ~12kW.

    Any suggestions? Would a Trailblazer 325 do? Other recommendations? Thanks.
    I'm a dealer for Generac standby generators. I use at home a Miller Bobcat 250. It has output rated at 10000. Correct me, but Trailblazer has two alternators, One feeds an invertor it is three phase. The other alternator is single phase with lower output rating.

    NEC requires your automatic generator to be large enough for automatic load. If set up is manual, no requirement for automatic load.
    Numerous customers do OK with 5000 generators. Obviously, a 10000 will provide more comfort.

    If you have a well, a furnace, air conditioning, refrigerator, maybe a septic pump, and sump pump, you can function in an emergency if they work, but they don't need to work all at once. Alternating loads is the key.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Bossier Parish La.
    Posts
    5,870
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Engine welder generator question

    I agree with you Willie, most home stand by generator dealers want to sell the most high $$ generator they can for your home. So they total up the entire electrical load of the entire house and spec the generator to power EVERYTHING at 100% power all the time, when you rarely NEED 100% power in most cases, on a continuous basis. When running on backup power you should pick and choose what is the priority things to power at the time.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    =
    Posts
    56
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Engine welder generator question

    We have 3 ACs, two for the house (35A each) and a 24K BTU Mitsu minisplit for the garage. Obviously if the power were down in the AZ summer, I would not run the garage minisplit (nor would I weld) or the pool pump, just focus on keeping the house comfortable. Fridge, freezer, range are another 30A tops, but cooking would be only intermitent. So bare minimum is about 80A, and 100A tops is what I am thinking.

    Very useful advice above guys, thank you all. Am moving away from a trailblazer due to cost, and favoring a Bobcat 250 EFI. Can always use it in the field if ever needed as a welding source -- to power the Invertig as a stick welder.

    Checked he Honda generators but they don't offer 10KW -- the one they do is for standalone industrial applications and needs special ways to connect to the house. Seeing how sought-after are the old Lincoln engines, I am hoping that the Bobcat would keep its value.
    HTP Invertig 221H w/ CK20 water cooled torch
    Hypertherm Powermax 45XP
    Optrel Crystal 2.0

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Austin TX
    Posts
    828
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Engine welder generator question

    Harbor Freight has their 9000 watt generators on sale for about $650 that have, I think, a 13 hour run time on a full tank of gas. I use one on my boat dock to raise and lower the boat. Then I have the Bobcat 225g as power backup for the house. Have never had to use it, but I have been wondering if the 8000 watt Bobcat would run the 4 ton Lennox AC system since it is one of the newer soft start compressor/blower units, that slowly build up to speed.
    Miller Syncrowave 350
    Millermatic 252/ 30A spoolgun
    Miller Bobcat 225g w/ 3545 spoolgun
    Lincoln PowerArc4000
    Lincoln 175 Mig
    Lincoln 135 Mig
    Everlast 250EX Tig
    Century ac/dc 230 amp stick
    Victor O/A
    Hypertherm 1000 plasma

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Bossier Parish La.
    Posts
    5,870
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Engine welder generator question

    Quote Originally Posted by koenbro View Post
    Am moving away from a trailblazer due to cost, and favoring a Bobcat 250 EFI. Can always use it in the field if ever needed as a welding source -- to power the Invertig as a stick welder.
    That just doesn't make any sense to me. Why not just stick weld with the BC and leave the Invertig at home? The BC can also be set up to TIG weld if you need to do that, too, and it can wire weld with a spool gun attached to it.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    2,619
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Engine welder generator question

    Aren't some inerters also kinda finicky about the AC input they get, too? Seems like I heard that somewhere (don't own any inerters so take it FWIW)...

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    4,060
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Engine welder generator question

    Just as an aside note; in this area up here one zone was out for 56 hours, another 60 hours and one 88 hours.
    This is why I would go with a dedicated diesel generator. Fuel economy matters when you are out for a week or more. Noise also begins to be a factor after a few days (speaking from experience after Sandy)
    Syncrowave 250
    Purox Metalmaster

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Under a Rock
    Posts
    5,606
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Engine welder generator question

    Quote Originally Posted by Louie1961 View Post
    This is why I would go with a dedicated diesel generator. Fuel economy matters when you are out for a week or more. Noise also begins to be a factor after a few days (speaking from experience after Sandy)
    HUHH??

    I find it very hard to believe a Diesel generator is less noise than a propane or gas job.

    although it would be nice to run it off my home heating oil tank.

    also, Diesel generators are NOT cheap$$
    Miller 211
    Hypertherm PM 45
    1961 Lincoln Idealarc 250
    HTP 221


    True Wisdom only comes from Pain.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Outside of Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    1,095
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Engine welder generator question

    Quote Originally Posted by koenbro View Post
    As I am watching the news about the power outages in California, I am interested in setting up a backup generator for my house. We don't have natural gas at the property so propane or gasoline/diesel.

    Now the exciting question is to get an engine welder that can be used as a generator in an emergency. The house main panel is 150A so 18kW is the peak usage, but in a pinch we can do probably with ~12kW.

    Any suggestions? Would a Trailblazer 325 do? Other recommendations? Thanks.
    In my hurricane and ice storm area, for years I have used my Trailblazer Pro 350D as backup power for my house. It has worked great. 12KW of power, and I have it sitting on top of a 66 gallon auxiliary tank on my welding trailer for 71 gallons of total fuel capacity. Typically I am powering the house on generator 3-5 times a year, every year. Sometimes for just a few hours, other times for a few days. I live on a farm in a rural area, so there are lots of times that a store will bring a tree down on the lines somewhere.

    My home has a gas (propane) stove, water heater and furnace. Main electrical consumption is the 3 ton air conditioner, followed by the electric dryer.

    The trailblazer has pulled the well pump (3/4HP 200' submersible), the air conditioner and ceiling fans, etc and we've been quite comfortable during outages. With its Kubota diesel, it has been quite reliable and it has powered the house through outages lasting 2-3 days on more than one occasion. At the same time it is pulling two refrigerators and a chest freezer

    Personally, from a budgetary standpoint I like the idea of having one piece of equipment that serves multiple uses, as opposed to having to spend money on multiple pieces of equipment that don't get used every day. Mine is set up on a trailer so it's doesn't take much time to pull it over and plug it in.

    Last year I picked up a good deal on a low hour used 17KW propane generator, and last month we finished installing a 200A automatic transfer switch on the power feed to the house. Hopefully in a few months I'll finish running propane lines and add a second tank so that if I'm gone and the power goes out the system will fire up and transfer over automatically, saving my wife the hassle of hooking up a manual generator.

    Personally I think that you're on the right track. If you are operating a welding business, you have the added benefit of depreciating the welder / generator; whereas with a dedicated house generator there is no write off.
    Miller Trailblazer Pro 350D
    Miller Suitcase MIG
    Miller Spectrum 2050
    Miller Syncrowave 250DX
    Lincoln 210MP

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Tucson Arizona
    Posts
    248
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Engine welder generator question

    Quote Originally Posted by koenbro View Post
    As I am watching the news about the power outages in California, I am interested in setting up a backup generator for my house. We don't have natural gas at the property so propane or gasoline/diesel.

    Now the exciting question is to get an engine welder that can be used as a generator in an emergency. The house main panel is 150A so 18kW is the peak usage, but in a pinch we can do probably with ~12kW.

    Any suggestions? Would a Trailblazer 325 do? Other recommendations? Thanks.
    Arizona is NOT California.. yet (let a few more relocate cause they can't handle the stupid high taxes and enviro insanity and yet they keep voting for demecrates and we might be california) here in AZ an particularly in Phoenix area we don't see the power outages like they have there... most of californias outages are the result of liberal policies taking priority over common sense...
    If we do have outages here its usually during monsoon season and then only if ya are like me and live out in the country where some power lines are above ground and prone to poles falling or getting hit by a drunk etc... so realistically the TB will probably never get used as a generator... however its a good excuse to use with the other half to justify buying it!

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Bossier Parish La.
    Posts
    5,870
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Engine welder generator question

    Quote Originally Posted by monsoon-mech View Post
    If we do have outages here its usually during monsoon season and then only if ya are like me and live out in the country where some power lines are above ground and prone to poles falling or getting hit by a drunk etc... so realistically the TB will probably never get used as a generator... however its a good excuse to use with the other half to justify buying it!
    But it's a nice peace of mind knowing when the power DOES go out for whatever reason, you are prepared and set up to deal with it properly, IN ADVANCE. Having the other half's approval keeps thing smoother at home, too.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Page generated in 1,606,791,369.45355 seconds with 12 queries