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Thread: My first beads with stick welding

  1. #26
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    Re: My first beads with stick welding

    Quote Originally Posted by Sberry View Post
    Those look really good for a starter self learned type. Practice them next to each other, lap 50 %.
    Thanks! The last ones have more pronounced "dimes" because I was experimenting pushing the pool really deep on the whipping motion, but I liked the look of some of them, like the third one. You mean overlapping the beads?

  2. #27
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    Re: My first beads with stick welding

    just run your next beads at 90 degrees to those and 50% overlap each bead ya will end up with a near flat surface if ya alternate that way(overlapping the beads) ... looks good! ya can order practice plates of the net pretty cheap delivered to your door welding rod as well (probably more than if your door was in the USA but still DHL and UPS do deliver in Brazil and I'll bet Amazon does too I know I've seen DHL and UPS while in Brazil I used to import firearms and military surplus from there) , what are the specs for your machine is it AC only or DC or both? what brand/model, folks can give ya more targeted advice if we know what your working with..
    Last edited by monsoon-mech; 11-27-2019 at 10:39 AM.

  3. #28
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    Re: My first beads with stick welding

    whipping is for 6010/6011 typically when welding pipe. maybe you can learn that later. For now you should just drag the electrode as you learn and most likely that is all you would ever need to use unless you start pipe welding.
    Let me ask the forum: Do any structural welders us whip and pause?


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  4. #29
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    Re: My first beads with stick welding

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffrey.penfield View Post
    Do any structural welders us whip and pause?
    I'm not a pro, but yes, usually, with 601X, which is what I use most. It seems to wet / fill the toes better and helps prevent "wagon tracks" (slag entrapment) and undercut.
    Last edited by Kelvin; 11-27-2019 at 02:53 PM.

  5. #30
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    Re: My first beads with stick welding

    Quote Originally Posted by monsoon-mech View Post
    just run your next beads at 90 degrees to those and 50% overlap each bead ya will end up with a near flat surface if ya alternate that way(overlapping the beads) ... looks good! ya can order practice plates of the net pretty cheap delivered to your door welding rod as well (probably more than if your door was in the USA but still DHL and UPS do deliver in Brazil and I'll bet Amazon does too I know I've seen DHL and UPS while in Brazil I used to import firearms and military surplus from there) , what are the specs for your machine is it AC only or DC or both? what brand/model, folks can give ya more targeted advice if we know what your working with..
    I'll look further for those practice kits! Not sure if it will be cheaper than buying some metal here because of the dollar rates, but still worth looking. There's a place that sells steel, about a 2h drive from here. Soon I'll need to buy some steel sheets for fabricating some car parts that have rusted (that's my main goal with welding, learning stick, then MIG so I can make some simpler rust repairs), I can also grab some metal plates while I'm there. I think I might find some more throwaway steel though. For now, I still have about 25-30cm of that metal plate. I only thought of running beads over the other ones so I could use the clean plate for other things like butt joints and T-joints.

    My machine is a Azen 3 in 1. It's a Brazilian brand. The machine is a 140A (duty cycle 110A-100% and 140A-60%), DC-only, works as MMA, MIG and gasless MIG (I'll probably use the latter with the car body repairs). I've been using it DCEP on 90A for 2.5mm rods. Still haven't tested the MIG, but I plan on doing it next time I set it up. Already have some gasless wire, just need to install it on the machine.

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    By the way, I bought some more electrodes today (both 6013 and 7018) and ran some more beads on top of the older ones (after grinding them flat a bit, which showed no porosity apparently ). With the 6013 I managed to start the arc more easily, I ran some straight beads (no whipping) and they looked better. The 7018 on the other hand.. First rod I couldn't even start an arc. I'd get the electrode stuck a lot. It was like the arc wanted to start but it didn't, and when it did it was weak so it would stuck the electrode on the pool. So first I thought maybe I needed higher amperage with 7018 and got it as high as 127A. Still had a hard time, when I started the arc it would fade in the middle of the bead. Then I tried another rod, and it was easier. I could start an arc with 90A and run a full bead. Maybe I had a bad rod the first time? Thinking about throwing them in the oven

    Below is a picture of the 7018 bead that I ran on 90A. The beads above it are from the rod that was giving me a hard time and stopping midway.

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  6. #31
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    Re: My first beads with stick welding

    do you have a supplier for c-25 gas? for body work your going to have better cleaner results with MIG rather than Flux core, the thin sheet metal is easier to weld running some .023" wire with C-25 gas

    7018 3/32" (2.5mm) should run pretty smooth with that machine but it is indeed sensative to how its been stored was it a sealed package or just some loose rod?

  7. #32
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    Re: My first beads with stick welding

    Quote Originally Posted by monsoon-mech View Post
    do you have a supplier for c-25 gas? for body work your going to have better cleaner results with MIG rather than Flux core, the thin sheet metal is easier to weld running some .023" wire with C-25 gas

    7018 3/32" (2.5mm) should run pretty smooth with that machine but it is indeed sensative to how its been stored was it a sealed package or just some loose rod?
    Buying a cylinder is almost the price of the welding machine, but I heard you can rent the gas. Depending on the price I could do that, but would it be that worse to use the flux wire? I've seen it being used with good results (on car body work you usually will have to grind the weld down anyways). On the video below the welder is using gasless MIG (skip to 10:30). I'm not questioning the MIG being better, just wondering if it's worth the extra cost for that particular kind of job. If it is I'll start looking for how to rent the c-25 gas. Right now what I've here is 0.8mm (.031") flux core wire.



    The 7018 rods were sold by kilogram, so they were out of the box already. I guess that could be the problem then.. Some of them probably got humidity. I'll just blame the rods this time

  8. #33
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    Re: My first beads with stick welding

    Quote Originally Posted by IanCaio View Post
    Buying a cylinder is almost the price of the welding machine, but I heard you can rent the gas. Depending on the price I could do that, but would it be that worse to use the flux wire? I've seen it being used with good results (on car body work you usually will have to grind the weld down anyways). On the video below the welder is using gasless MIG (skip to 10:30). I'm not questioning the MIG being better, just wondering if it's worth the extra cost for that particular kind of job. If it is I'll start looking for how to rent the c-25 gas. Right now what I've here is 0.8mm (.031") flux core wire.

    The 7018 rods were sold by kilogram, so they were out of the box already. I guess that could be the problem then.. Some of them probably got humidity. I'll just blame the rods this time
    Oh ya can deffinetly do it, when I was first starting out all I had was a Lincoln 225 AC buzz box and lots of 6011 and 7014 rod, and learned very well how to make 1/8" rod work for almost every job cause its all I had, at 15 I was working in a autobody shop ran by a bunch of Bikers up in Oregon, there was no mig in the shop but we used a ton of 1/16" 6013 rod(we were still leading in body seams back then plastic body filler was what ya slapped on the 1973 Ford Mavrick grocerie getter jobs that paid the light bill) I was doing rosette welds putting bumper inserts together every week, my first "car" was a 68 Harley Sportster that was in 4 milk crates... I earned it by welding replacement junk yard quarter panels , roof and floor pan on a 1955 Chevy (rust is a huge problem up in the northwest) all 6013 rod and alota patience... sometimes in todays world we forget what it took before migs were a dime a dozen.... it would however make the work tremendously easier and much more efficient... if your getting paid for the body work going mig will pay for itself in less time wasted etc.. which means ya can get on to the next job...
    Last edited by monsoon-mech; 11-27-2019 at 11:03 PM.

  9. #34
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    Re: My first beads with stick welding

    Quote Originally Posted by monsoon-mech View Post
    Oh ya can deffinetly do it, when I was first starting out all I had was a Lincoln 225 AC buzz box and lots of 6011 and 7014 rod, and learned very well how to make 1/8" rod work for almost every job cause its all I had, at 15 I was working in a autobody shop ran by a bunch of Bikers up in Oregon, there was no mig in the shop but we used a ton of 1/16" 6013 rod(we were still leading in body seams back then plastic body filler was what ya slapped on the 1973 Ford Mavrick grocerie getter jobs that paid the light bill) I was doing rosette welds putting bumper inserts together every week, my first "car" was a 68 Harley Sportster that was in 4 milk crates... I earned it by welding replacement junk yard quarter panels , roof and floor pan on a 1955 Chevy (rust is a huge problem up in the northwest) all 6013 rod and alota patience... sometimes in todays world we forget what it took before migs were a dime a dozen.... it would however make the work tremendously easier and much more efficient... if your getting paid for the body work going mig will pay for itself in less time wasted etc.. which means ya can get on to the next job...
    That's awesome, bet you gained a lot from the experience of working there! I can imagine how hard it was to do body work with a 1/8" rod, I had trouble not burning through a 2mm thick pipe with one, what to say of 0.9mm-1.25mm metal sheets. This same guy from that video did one where he worked with a MMA machine for body work, just to show it was possible. There was even a trick of having a "filler" rod, basically a rod he removed the flux from and used as a filler. What you said about us forgetting how things used to be done before modern processes is totally true. Not saying we all should go back to the stone age, but kind of makes us more complete and independent when we at least know how to do things the old way right? We never know when we might need it.

    I'm basically going to be doing repairs on my own car, so time isn't a major issue, they will be mostly small repairs anyways. By the way, a HD Sportster is starting with style already! If I were to have a Harley (much more expensive here in Brazil than in the US) that would probably the one. I'm kind of skinny, probably would look weird driving those bigger ones. I have only owned a small 150cc Honda bike for about 8 years and recently a car, the brazillian version of the Opel Corsa which I bought used and is around 18 years old, so some rust repairs required. Not half as many as you would expect on a car this old, but still some.

  10. #35
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    Re: My first beads with stick welding

    Quote Originally Posted by IanCaio View Post
    That's awesome, bet you gained a lot from the experience of working there! I can imagine how hard it was to do body work with a 1/8" rod, I had trouble not burning through a 2mm thick pipe with one, what to say of 0.9mm-1.25mm metal sheets. This same guy from that video did one where he worked with a MMA machine for body work, just to show it was possible. There was even a trick of having a "filler" rod, basically a rod he removed the flux from and used as a filler. What you said about us forgetting how things used to be done before modern processes is totally true. Not saying we all should go back to the stone age, but kind of makes us more complete and independent when we at least know how to do things the old way right? We never know when we might need it.

    I'm basically going to be doing repairs on my own car, so time isn't a major issue, they will be mostly small repairs anyways. By the way, a HD Sportster is starting with style already! If I were to have a Harley (much more expensive here in Brazil than in the US) that would probably the one. I'm kind of skinny, probably would look weird driving those bigger ones. I have only owned a small 150cc Honda bike for about 8 years and recently a car, the brazillian version of the Opel Corsa which I bought used and is around 18 years old, so some rust repairs required. Not half as many as you would expect on a car this old, but still some.
    Yea learned enough bout fixing bent sheet metal that 38 years later I've accumulated a decent collection of 1960s and 70s "muscle cars" most are Dodges or Plymouths mosta my pickups are Chevy with the exception of 5 Dodges (3 of those are now parts doners all 5.9 cummins diesels I'm transplanting into Chevy trucks) I own a trucking company here in the USA now that hauls oversize loads so it forces us through alot of rural county back roads where I'm always watching the farmers fields and behind barns for interesting old cars needing to be restored... unfortuatly that first Harley was lost while I was in the Army but it did infect me with a condition that has forced me to accumulate a few of its kinfolk my favorite currently being a 2003 Fatboy 100 year anniversary edition ... or my 96 FXR its hard to be loyal to just one everyone gives me a hard time cause we have several late model trucks and SUVs that belong to the company but I insist on runing around the country in either a 1971 Chevy Blazer (its a "restomod" modern drive train and interior but old sheetmetal) or a 1993 Dodge 4x4 cummins diesel (the blue one seen in some of my pics on this site) thats no stranger to the drag strip... or a 1986 Chevy 1 ton dually crew cab with cummins power under the hood and 2014 Chevy interior that ones outa service right now as I'm converting it to 4x4...

    all started with a 225 AC buzz box 41 years ago, your practicing with the same modern equivalent now... might as well see where it takes you

  11. #36
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    Re: My first beads with stick welding

    Quote Originally Posted by monsoon-mech View Post
    Yea learned enough bout fixing bent sheet metal that 38 years later I've accumulated a decent collection of 1960s and 70s "muscle cars" most are Dodges or Plymouths mosta my pickups are Chevy with the exception of 5 Dodges (3 of those are now parts doners all 5.9 cummins diesels I'm transplanting into Chevy trucks) I own a trucking company here in the USA now that hauls oversize loads so it forces us through alot of rural county back roads where I'm always watching the farmers fields and behind barns for interesting old cars needing to be restored... unfortuatly that first Harley was lost while I was in the Army but it did infect me with a condition that has forced me to accumulate a few of its kinfolk my favorite currently being a 2003 Fatboy 100 year anniversary edition ... or my 96 FXR its hard to be loyal to just one everyone gives me a hard time cause we have several late model trucks and SUVs that belong to the company but I insist on runing around the country in either a 1971 Chevy Blazer (its a "restomod" modern drive train and interior but old sheetmetal) or a 1993 Dodge 4x4 cummins diesel (the blue one seen in some of my pics on this site) thats no stranger to the drag strip... or a 1986 Chevy 1 ton dually crew cab with cummins power under the hood and 2014 Chevy interior that ones outa service right now as I'm converting it to 4x4...

    all started with a 225 AC buzz box 41 years ago, your practicing with the same modern equivalent now... might as well see where it takes you
    That's a badass collection! You prepared the 93 Dodge for drag? What does it have under the hood?

    I can't step ahead of myself, so I'm taking my time and using my car repairs as a way to learn new skills (both mechanics and soon bodywork). But if I learn them well and realize I can take the challenge I wanted to buy some old Chevy Opala (an old brazilian RWD muscle car) and restore it. They go as old as 1969, so depending on the one I find I can expect lots of welding. I'm just thinking loud though and that's a project that will have to wait, both me being ready for it and having money for it

  12. #37
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    Re: My first beads with stick welding

    Quote Originally Posted by IanCaio View Post
    That's a badass collection! You prepared the 93 Dodge for drag? What does it have under the hood?

    I can't step ahead of myself, so I'm taking my time and using my car repairs as a way to learn new skills (both mechanics and soon bodywork). But if I learn them well and realize I can take the challenge I wanted to buy some old Chevy Opala (an old brazilian RWD muscle car) and restore it. They go as old as 1969, so depending on the one I find I can expect lots of welding. I'm just thinking loud though and that's a project that will have to wait, both me being ready for it and having money for it

    and ya shouldn't, work at your own pace, might help if ya draw up a "plan" in the form of a flow chart outlining what ya will need as far as equipment in order to progress to the next step etc.. kinda one of those hind sight is 20/20 things on my part LOL I bounced all over the place just to finally end up here where I'm pretty happy but sure coulda skipped some of the miss steps along the way... and wasted time aquireing equipment I never needed which prevented me from getting stuff I really coulda got much more use out of..

    as far as the toys the Dodge is my favorite... for now... cause its a total "Sleeper" its running a 5.9 Cummins diesel with a 5 speed behind it, twin turbos and water/meth injection the bottom end has had marine pistons installed, the head is fire ringed (mill a groove around each cyl. and insert a wire to help sealing) its running bigger injectors (which is why it needed more air to burn the fuel rather than waste it as smoke) and best part is.. it gets 19.7 mpg and is totally mild mannered on the street (people who really know diesels aren't fooled though when they hear it they can tell but most folks its just another noisy diesel) but on the track it will lay down a 13.42 without even breathin hard while my cross bed tool box is in place and 130lb winch on front bumper if I empty it out that drops into the 12s but I gotta run in 4 wheel hi range otherwise I can't get off the line fast enough.... puts on a good tire meltin show though just doesn't win the race my friends call that truck the "Mustang killer" cause I raced a latina lady who had a pretty serious mustang but no money... I bet her her panties and bra against my $500... and after she lost by over a truck leangth and a half she didn't bat an eye when she stepped behind the truck and took em off and handed em to me.... a big smile on her face the whole time walked to her car buck naked and blew me a kiss as she lit em up and burned outa there... I shoulda charged my buddies admision to that race...
    Last edited by monsoon-mech; 11-29-2019 at 10:58 PM.

  13. #38
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    Re: My first beads with stick welding

    Quote Originally Posted by monsoon-mech View Post
    and ya shouldn't, work at your own pace, might help if ya draw up a "plan" in the form of a flow chart outlining what ya will need as far as equipment in order to progress to the next step etc.. kinda one of those hind sight is 20/20 things on my part LOL I bounced all over the place just to finally end up here where I'm pretty happy but sure coulda skipped some of the miss steps along the way... and wasted time aquireing equipment I never needed which prevented me from getting stuff I really coulda got much more use out of..

    as far as the toys the Dodge is my favorite... for now... cause its a total "Sleeper" its running a 5.9 Cummins diesel with a 5 speed behind it, twin turbos and water/meth injection the bottom end has had marine pistons installed, the head is fire ringed (mill a groove around each cyl. and insert a wire to help sealing) its running bigger injectors (which is why it needed more air to burn the fuel rather than waste it as smoke) and best part is.. it gets 19.7 mpg and is totally mild mannered on the street (people who really know diesels aren't fooled though when they hear it they can tell but most folks its just another noisy diesel) but on the track it will lay down a 13.42 without even breathin hard while my cross bed tool box is in place and 130lb winch on front bumper if I empty it out that drops into the 12s but I gotta run in 4 wheel hi range otherwise I can't get off the line fast enough.... puts on a good tire meltin show though just doesn't win the race my friends call that truck the "Mustang killer" cause I raced a latina lady who had a pretty serious mustang but no money... I bet her her panties and bra against my $500... and after she lost by over a truck leangth and a half she didn't bat an eye when she stepped behind the truck and took em off and handed em to me.... a big smile on her face the whole time walked to her car buck naked and blew me a kiss as she lit em up and burned outa there... I shoulda charged my buddies admision to that race...
    I'm slowly gathering tools as I need them for my current car maintenance. I know what you mean, but you did the most important part which was actually going for it, many people don't even take that step. I'll try to plan it so I try to avoid some mistakes, but if they come it's part of throwing ourself out there. Like when I almost trashed my transmission trying to fix something in my car before I even transferred it to my name (but that's another story ).

    That's an impressive machine, I really like sleepers! I like to read a little about car preparation, but I'm not an expert about it. Now putting the preparation to practice is another story, guess I'd first want to finish those rust repairs and some mechanics details (it's actually fine overall, just minor stuff), and then if there's some spare money I could play around! My car only has a 1L engine, so not sure preparing it is very worth it though.. And damn, that race was probably a fun one to watch hahaha

    By the way, I think I hit jackpot these days. I found this 1.25mm metal sheet (it had some old paint and some minor rust which I grinded off), which looks perfect for some MIG practice. I'm thinking about taking a section of it, cutting a rectangle in the middle, then welding another rectangle back in place. Just like I'd do in a bodywork repair.

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  14. #39
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    Re: My first beads with stick welding

    the correct way to weld a panel in the middle of a body panel is to use a flanging tool to create a recessed lip that the repair panel can then sit in to be welded... butt welding the piece in will result in 2 things.. #1 you aging prematurly trying to not burn through the seam and #2 at some point down the road a good possibility of a crack appearing along the seam... but if ya flange it... fast simple to weld in repair piece and it will be easier to smooth out either with lead or bondo.. do a search for

    PANEL FLANGER

    or

    AUTO BODY FLANGING PLIERS

    you can make your own pretty easily outa an old pair of vice grips... its the best first tool ya can fab up.. use your welder to weld the flanging plates that you shape yourself into the jaws of a vice grip pliers

  15. #40
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    Re: My first beads with stick welding

    Quote Originally Posted by monsoon-mech View Post
    the correct way to weld a panel in the middle of a body panel is to use a flanging tool to create a recessed lip that the repair panel can then sit in to be welded... butt welding the piece in will result in 2 things.. #1 you aging prematurly trying to not burn through the seam and #2 at some point down the road a good possibility of a crack appearing along the seam... but if ya flange it... fast simple to weld in repair piece and it will be easier to smooth out either with lead or bondo.. do a search for

    PANEL FLANGER

    or

    AUTO BODY FLANGING PLIERS

    you can make your own pretty easily outa an old pair of vice grips... its the best first tool ya can fab up.. use your welder to weld the flanging plates that you shape yourself into the jaws of a vice grip pliers
    Always learning something new! The videos I've been watching of bodywork used either butt welding or "punch-through" (I'm not sure the name) welding, like in the edges of the rocker panel, where the rocker panel is drilled several holes close to each other and you weld through them. I've just found this video of flange welding vs butt welding and will try to watch it at work, but from what I understood I'm supposed to leave a small edge for the new panel to sit in and this flanger will slightly bend it backwards so the new plate can sit on it, then I'll make a punch-through weld to fix it in place and then finish the edges. I'll watch the video and do some more research!

    When it comes to piece integrity (like the mechanical resistance of the repair), will both have similar results if well done? Or will flange welding resulting in a more solid repair? I ask because I've seen butt welding being used in more structural parts of the car, though I think they were in places where using a flanger would be very tricky I guess.

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    Re: My first beads with stick welding

    flange welding will be much much solider, what ya are calling "punch through" is reffered to as "ROSETTE WELD" drill the repair panel but leave the flange solid, however if ya make the repair panel slightly smaller than the flanged lip (it still sits solid on the flange but is about 1mm short of the edges at the surface, then ya can easily just place a tack weld every couple centimeters around the panel, once its secured in place you can then run very fast low 2-3 cm beads alternating around the repair panel so as to keep from warping the body panel when your done it will be fully welded in place with a bead slightly below the surface ya then finish with a skim coat of body filler

    look for videos dealing with warpage control and mitigation by placing your weld beads to counter each other there are several on this site especially dealing with welding square tube the process is the same for sheet metal, the order and direction of your beads will cancel out any panel warpage, myself I work around the repair doing 1" beads skipping every 2" then go around in the opposite direction running my beads in the opposite direction as well so in the end it takes me 3 trips around a panel changing direction for each set of beads.... keep heat as low as possible and either i've been very lucky for alota years or the technique actually works, learned it from onea those bikers when he was showing me how to weld Harley fuel tanks together I adapted it to body panels..

  17. #42
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    Re: My first beads with stick welding

    Quote Originally Posted by monsoon-mech View Post
    flange welding will be much much solider, what ya are calling "punch through" is reffered to as "ROSETTE WELD" drill the repair panel but leave the flange solid, however if ya make the repair panel slightly smaller than the flanged lip (it still sits solid on the flange but is about 1mm short of the edges at the surface, then ya can easily just place a tack weld every couple centimeters around the panel, once its secured in place you can then run very fast low 2-3 cm beads alternating around the repair panel so as to keep from warping the body panel when your done it will be fully welded in place with a bead slightly below the surface ya then finish with a skim coat of body filler

    look for videos dealing with warpage control and mitigation by placing your weld beads to counter each other there are several on this site especially dealing with welding square tube the process is the same for sheet metal, the order and direction of your beads will cancel out any panel warpage, myself I work around the repair doing 1" beads skipping every 2" then go around in the opposite direction running my beads in the opposite direction as well so in the end it takes me 3 trips around a panel changing direction for each set of beads.... keep heat as low as possible and either i've been very lucky for alota years or the technique actually works, learned it from onea those bikers when he was showing me how to weld Harley fuel tanks together I adapted it to body panels..
    I just watched the video below. Guy talks about flange welding, about the MIG gun angle to avoid burn-throughs, the technique he uses for warping control (a little different from yours). He mixes flange and butt welding, which I think is normal because there are some spots very difficult to prepare a flange on.



    I'll do as you said and try to fabricate a Panel Flanger, because the ones I found here are very expensive. And I'll try your warping control technique! I think it's going to be the trickiest part of the repairs, because those sheets seem to be more sensitive than I thought. I was grinding the paint out of that sheet and I already noticed some small warping because of the grinding heat, imagine the welding heat

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    Re: My first beads with stick welding

    I was just watching this other video and some doubts came up:



    1. Is it alright to use a sponge with water to cool the sheet like he did in the video? Probably alright if I don't cool it down too fast right?
    2. I've seem some comments asking whether the flange welding would accumulate umidity and be a focus of rust. Should I only do the flange weld when I can access the other side of the plate and seal the flange or should I use it even when I can't access the flange after welding?


    Can't wait to actually start fixing the rust on my car. Just gotta figure out which repairs I can do without having to stop using my car for too long. I'll probably start with the rocker panel.

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    Re: My first beads with stick welding

    Quote Originally Posted by IanCaio View Post
    I was just watching this other video and some doubts came up:



    1. Is it alright to use a sponge with water to cool the sheet like he did in the video? Probably alright if I don't cool it down too fast right?
    2. I've seem some comments asking whether the flange welding would accumulate umidity and be a focus of rust. Should I only do the flange weld when I can access the other side of the plate and seal the flange or should I use it even when I can't access the flange after welding?


    Can't wait to actually start fixing the rust on my car. Just gotta figure out which repairs I can do without having to stop using my car for too long. I'll probably start with the rocker panel.
    in your environment I'd spray the backside with a sealer whenever possible, however anyplace that you cannot access the back is going to collect humidity regardless of the weld technique or no weld at all, the reason those areas rust out is because they are not accesable and because of that they will rust out again in the future.. I have two 1971 Chevy Blazers 1 I brought to Arizona from Oregon the other I aquired in Arizona the oregon truck required extensive rust repair for front floor boarsds front cab mounts and inner fender wells and door posts and lower rockers etc.. the AZ truck was clean except rust under the doors and in bottom of door post.... these locations always rust out in the pre 1973 Chevy trucks because over time dirt accumulates in these reas and is not able to be cleaned out due to vehicle design the blazers are worse because the entire top is removable so to stiffen the body they had a sheetmetal box formed under each floor that collected dirt and moisture etc... mine I elliminated that enclosed box and made stiffeners from 2"x3"x1/4" tube with flanges at each end that run from the rear bed/cab union to the front cab mount.. a single tube on each side and nomore enclosed box... plus both have full roll cages to further stiffen them when the tops are off... problem solved, the design of the vehicle is going to determin how much it rustes more than your weld technique

    we used to use wet burlap sacks to help control heat warpage now body shops have access to any number of heat blocking pastes, the paste are easier to work with and not to terribly expensive, anytime your dealing with thin material you will have warpage to deal with you just combine systems to deal with it, we used to lay the wet sacks right next to the area to be welded especially on large panels like roofs and hoods now they smear a bead of heat paste to do the same thing but I think the paste is better because ya can get it right close to your weld path the wet sacks ya gotta experiment with how wet and with how close to find what works best for you... another technique for removing warpage is heating and rapidly cooling areas, the more you research warpage control the more techniques ya will find... try all of them on test panels to find which work best for you... heat warpage is the nemisis of welders

  20. #45
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    Re: My first beads with stick welding

    Quote Originally Posted by monsoon-mech View Post
    in your environment I'd spray the backside with a sealer whenever possible, however anyplace that you cannot access the back is going to collect humidity regardless of the weld technique or no weld at all, the reason those areas rust out is because they are not accesable and because of that they will rust out again in the future.. I have two 1971 Chevy Blazers 1 I brought to Arizona from Oregon the other I aquired in Arizona the oregon truck required extensive rust repair for front floor boarsds front cab mounts and inner fender wells and door posts and lower rockers etc.. the AZ truck was clean except rust under the doors and in bottom of door post.... these locations always rust out in the pre 1973 Chevy trucks because over time dirt accumulates in these reas and is not able to be cleaned out due to vehicle design the blazers are worse because the entire top is removable so to stiffen the body they had a sheetmetal box formed under each floor that collected dirt and moisture etc... mine I elliminated that enclosed box and made stiffeners from 2"x3"x1/4" tube with flanges at each end that run from the rear bed/cab union to the front cab mount.. a single tube on each side and nomore enclosed box... plus both have full roll cages to further stiffen them when the tops are off... problem solved, the design of the vehicle is going to determin how much it rustes more than your weld technique

    we used to use wet burlap sacks to help control heat warpage now body shops have access to any number of heat blocking pastes, the paste are easier to work with and not to terribly expensive, anytime your dealing with thin material you will have warpage to deal with you just combine systems to deal with it, we used to lay the wet sacks right next to the area to be welded especially on large panels like roofs and hoods now they smear a bead of heat paste to do the same thing but I think the paste is better because ya can get it right close to your weld path the wet sacks ya gotta experiment with how wet and with how close to find what works best for you... another technique for removing warpage is heating and rapidly cooling areas, the more you research warpage control the more techniques ya will find... try all of them on test panels to find which work best for you... heat warpage is the nemisis of welders
    You're right, now that you said it I don't think it will rust more than a butt joint. I'll treat the plate both sides to make it less likely. I think my car design makes many areas not reachable but I'll try to make the best of i. Maybe use a painting gun with some primer and just spray it inside the hollow areas.

    Today I tested my machine on MIG mode. First I made a "support" on my wall so I could hang the MIG gun, because I was unsure whether I could coil the gun cable to store it after I installed the wire. Now I can keep my machine in my room with the cable almost straight (not sure if necessary, but when in doubt..).

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    I also cut two small 6cm x 12cm rectangles of my 1.25mm metal sheet. The first idea was to try a butt joint, but I should have imagined I'd need to run some beads first because I was going to be trying MIG for the first time. So I'd still need to figure out settings, how to weld with it and so on. So ignore the mess in the plates, specially in the joint, because I started but at some point just gave up and did the right thing of running simple beads first.

    I tried to highlight the beads that I did after I had a better clue of the settings and which look more "presentable". Last picture is the other side of the plate, just to show how much they penetrated. I'm not sure if I found out the best settings, but most of those beads were run with 60A and wire feed between 2 and 3.

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    My first impressions were:

    1. It feels like it will be easier to weld with MIG later, but I still need to figure out the settings and getting used to it. I'll look for some videos on MIG techniques so I'm not so clueless next time I practice.
    2. The gasless MIG needs some extra grinding to look shinier, because the slag doesn't come off as easy as the 6013 slag. No worries since I need to grind it down to plate level anyways.
    3. There's more spattering than with stick welding. I had already heard that about gasless MIG and also that I could manage most of it with anti-spatter spray. I'll try to get some.

  21. #46
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    Re: My first beads with stick welding

    you can coil the mig cable after its got wire in it no worries, as far as getting coatings into hard to reach areas... 2 things one is weld through primer that leaves only the weld bead itself exposed the other way to deal with blind areas is to drill a small hole if possible and we used to use a modified touch up spray paint gun.. there was no "nozzle" instead Scotty (the guy who owned the shop) had brazed a 1/8" brass tube to it about 10" long he then flattened the end forming a crude fan spray nozzle.. it actually worked pretty good we used it for all kinds of stuff but as Oregon was rust capital of the west coast it was used mostly for spraying Zinc chromate based primer inside body panels...

    get ya a cupped wire wheel for your grinder (wear safty glasses they can fling wires) it will help flux removal, what is your voltage and wire speed settings? what polarity? splatter like that is usually cause by incorrect polarity, is it setup for Positive to the gun or negative to the gun it should be NEGATIVE for FCAW for MIG ya run positive (flux core welding is not MIG welding mig referes specifically to the use of gas) looks like ya could back voltage off a lil bit, overall not bad for first run...

  22. #47
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    Re: My first beads with stick welding

    best thing somebody told me when I was learning was to be comfortable and to steady myself by leaning on something so I can be steady.your welds look great.

  23. #48
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    Re: My first beads with stick welding

    Thank you both! Good to hear the beads look alright

    Quote Originally Posted by monsoon-mech View Post
    you can coil the mig cable after its got wire in it no worries, as far as getting coatings into hard to reach areas... 2 things one is weld through primer that leaves only the weld bead itself exposed the other way to deal with blind areas is to drill a small hole if possible and we used to use a modified touch up spray paint gun.. there was no "nozzle" instead Scotty (the guy who owned the shop) had brazed a 1/8" brass tube to it about 10" long he then flattened the end forming a crude fan spray nozzle.. it actually worked pretty good we used it for all kinds of stuff but as Oregon was rust capital of the west coast it was used mostly for spraying Zinc chromate based primer inside body panels...

    get ya a cupped wire wheel for your grinder (wear safty glasses they can fling wires) it will help flux removal, what is your voltage and wire speed settings? what polarity? splatter like that is usually cause by incorrect polarity, is it setup for Positive to the gun or negative to the gun it should be NEGATIVE for FCAW for MIG ya run positive (flux core welding is not MIG welding mig referes specifically to the use of gas) looks like ya could back voltage off a lil bit, overall not bad for first run...
    Iíll get one, right now I only have a grinding wheel and flap wheel. And donít worry, I wear glasses all the time when removing slag, even with a metal brush. Iím not sure about the voltage because I can only regulate the amperage, wire feed and polarity. I think itís specified in the back of the machine, if Iím not mistaken itís around 20-25 volts, Iíll check once I get home. Amperage was 60A, wire feed about 2,5. I ran it with gun on negative and grounding clamp on positive, it was what the machine manual specified for gasless MIG. Maybe the excess splatter was from the earlier attempts of getting the settings right

    Quote Originally Posted by WILLYSOVERLAND View Post
    best thing somebody told me when I was learning was to be comfortable and to steady myself by leaning on something so I can be steady.your welds look great.
    I was still figuring out a good position, it helped a lot to hold the gun with both hands for extra support. I donít have a garage to work, so everything is a bit improvised: I have to set up a grounding pole each time I set up the machine (place I rent doesnít have grounding), my welding table is a wood box with a piece of concrete on top of it and I was using a piece of scrap metal to hold the sheet in place. I ordered some cheap vise grips and some magnets, slowly trying to improve my workplace. Important thing is to practice the way I can I guess
    Last edited by IanCaio; 12-03-2019 at 12:20 AM.

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