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Thread: filler rod for 709M

  1. #1
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    filler rod for 709M

    Hi all,

    Ill be welding some 709M to a dissimilar material. Not sure what the other material is, Im trying to find out. I doubt it much above mild steel, maybe 1020? Its the flange on the end of my Land Rover front axle housing which the swivel ball bolts to. These flanges are friction welded to the housing and do have part of the coil spring seat MIG welded to it.

    Im after recommendations for TIG filler rod. I believe 709M very similar to 4140.

    https://www.voestalpine.com/highperf...18/03/709M.pdf

    cheers
    Serg

  2. #2
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    Re: filler rod for 709M

    Possibly Harris Super Missile Weld SMW-03, Hastelly-W AMS 5786 ERNiMo-3. Both are claimed to be good for dissimilar and 'hard to weld' steels.
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  3. #3
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    Re: filler rod for 709M

    Does it have to be 709M? ASSAB 709M is not suitable for welding but can with certain precautions be repair welded.

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    Re: filler rod for 709M

    Quote Originally Posted by ironrail View Post
    Does it have to be 709M? ASSAB 709M is not suitable for welding but can with certain precautions be repair welded.
    I already have the material. If you click the link in my first post it gives all the specs. Here is what it states for welding:

    "Parts should be welded in the hardened and tempered condition. Strength properties of the joint will not be the same as the base metal.
    Preheat 300-400oC. Temper after welding to about 35-50oc below the recommended tempering temperature.
    Filler metal: - FOX CM2-KB electrodes or CM2-IGwire.
    For advice in connection with difficult welding, please consult our engineers."

  5. #5
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    Re: filler rod for 709M

    For advice in connection with difficult welding, please consult our engineers." I wouldn't count on an unknown internet source for this.
    Last edited by ironrail; 12-22-2019 at 08:01 PM.

  6. #6
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    Re: filler rod for 709M

    Quote Originally Posted by ironrail View Post
    For advice in connection with difficult welding, please consult our engineers." I wouldn't count on an unknown internet source for this.
    whats unkown about it? My link and quote are directly from the supplier, they are the Australian agents for Bohler, who I bought the material from.

  7. #7
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    Re: filler rod for 709M

    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
    Possibly Harris Super Missile Weld SMW-03, Hastelly-W AMS 5786 ERNiMo-3. Both are claimed to be good for dissimilar and 'hard to weld' steels.

    I wonder if they are available to me (Australia) or an equivalent?

  8. #8
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    Re: filler rod for 709M

    So what is the recommended filler rod for 4140?

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    Re: filler rod for 709M

    Preheating to about 450° and ER70S-2.

  10. #10
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    Re: filler rod for 709M

    Quote Originally Posted by husq2100 View Post
    I wonder if they are available to me (Australia) or an equivalent?
    Harris/Welco SuperMissileWeld is a variant of ER312. Many a tool and die weldor uses 312 for the high strength, and high ferrite level that resists cracking. There are off road chassis builders that weld 4130 with 312 for the superior wetting and high strength. Lincoln Electric used to market ER312 as "All purpose maintainance filler".

    Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR"
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  12. #11
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    Re: filler rod for 709M

    Quote Originally Posted by Weld_ View Post
    Preheating to about 450° and ER70S-2.
    Thank you.

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    Re: filler rod for 709M

    Quote Originally Posted by shovelon View Post
    Harris/Welco SuperMissileWeld is a variant of ER312. Many a tool and die weldor uses 312 for the high strength, and high ferrite level that resists cracking. There are off road chassis builders that weld 4130 with 312 for the superior wetting and high strength. Lincoln Electric used to market ER312 as "All purpose maintainance filler".


    Thanks mate. good stuff

  14. #13
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    Re: filler rod for 709M

    Just found this on the web, it states the same/similar GMAW wire as recommended in the specs from supplier:

    Thoughts?
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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    Re: filler rod for 709M

    Ok, Im a lot closer to having to do this, I have ordered the above filler rod - ER90S-B3

    Is there a problem using this filler rod on a lesser material? I know the material im using to turn the added bit, but uncertain of the flange end of axle housing. It coud be anything from 1020, 1045 through to 4140 type material.

    Am I better off using one of those dissimilar material rods like ER312 variant ?

  16. #15
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    Re: filler rod for 709M

    Voestalpine is in N. America too. They are distributors for Avesta among other brands.

  17. #16
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    Re: filler rod for 709M

    Quote Originally Posted by husq2100 View Post
    Ok, Im a lot closer to having to do this, I have ordered the above filler rod - ER90S-B3

    Is there a problem using this filler rod on a lesser material? I know the material im using to turn the added bit, but uncertain of the flange end of axle housing. It coud be anything from 1020, 1045 through to 4140 type material.

    Am I better off using one of those dissimilar material rods like ER312 variant ?
    ER90S-B3 is a good a good match for any of those. But again you don't know what it is. No problem using it on lesser material like 1020. ER90 has a minimum tensile of 90,000psi. ER312 has a minimum tensile of some 100,000psi, so without conformation of the base I think I would default to ER312 personally as it is a no-brainer for me and I use a lot of it. I do TIG.
    Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR"
    MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX3ea,Dynasty200DX,Th ermalArc400GTSW,LincolnSW2002ea., MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig4ea,MigMax1ea.

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  19. #17
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    Re: filler rod for 709M

    Quote Originally Posted by shovelon View Post
    ER90S-B3 is a good a good match for any of those. But again you don't know what it is. No problem using it on lesser material like 1020. ER90 has a minimum tensile of 90,000psi. ER312 has a minimum tensile of some 100,000psi, so without conformation of the base I think I would default to ER312 personally as it is a no-brainer for me and I use a lot of it. I do TIG.
    Thanks for that,

    While oxy kit shopping this morning I asked the sales guy about ER312, he had not much experience with it , can get it but doesn’t stock it. Their go to for dissimilar metals is ER309.

    Any thoughts on that?

    Regarding no problems using the ER90 on the other material, I’m not too concerned about out right strength, more so good bonding and no cracking.

  20. #18
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    Re: filler rod for 709M

    Quote Originally Posted by husq2100 View Post
    Thanks for that,

    While oxy kit shopping this morning I asked the sales guy about ER312, he had not much experience with it , can get it but doesn’t stock it. Their go to for dissimilar metals is ER309.

    Any thoughts on that?

    Regarding no problems using the ER90 on the other material, I’m not too concerned about out right strength, more so good bonding and no cracking.
    I personally don't prefer ER309 due to some cracking problems encountered doing motor shaft overlays with stainless for corrosion properties. It is meant for welding carbon steel to stainless steel as long as you know the bases. HarrisWelco SuperMissileWeld(ER312)solved the cracking problem and opened a whole world of solutions. But you can do some tests with the ER309 if the LWS can give you some samples.
    Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR"
    MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX3ea,Dynasty200DX,Th ermalArc400GTSW,LincolnSW2002ea., MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig4ea,MigMax1ea.

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  22. #19
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    Re: filler rod for 709M

    Quote Originally Posted by shovelon View Post
    I personally don't prefer ER309 due to some cracking problems encountered doing motor shaft overlays with stainless for corrosion properties. It is meant for welding carbon steel to stainless steel as long as you know the bases. HarrisWelco SuperMissileWeld(ER312)solved the cracking problem and opened a whole world of solutions. But you can do some tests with the ER309 if the LWS can give you some samples.
    Thanks again mate.

    I have a factory flange cut off a bad axle housing same as mine. I’m using it for the turning dimensions and Pcd spacing of bolts to drill/tap my added piece. If I have a bit of 709m left over I’ll try and do a test run.

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