Exhaust Help Needed

[farmshop]

The thing with Sam is he wants to do things the way he feels is right and not cut corners. I am sure if Sam had a large shop with all the bells and whistles things wouldn’t take nearly as long. Those of us who fix our own stuff without all the amenities have to do things differently. Sure pulling the manifold is the right way but when 4 more studs break are you gonna pull the head? How far do you go? Exhaust systems are like brake lines....it seems that you start on one end and don’t stop till you get to the other

[farmersammm]

It's a process So quit yer whining

Anyways...…….tubing is a nightmare. OD's are standard, but wall thickness varies. Can't just waltz in, and grab anything off the shelf.



Got lucky, and the coil was an exact match...which means a lot when it comes to flare nuts, and double flaring.

I got lucky,, the guy at the store was a former employee at a plant that manufactured stainless tubing over in Sand Springs. So, we had a real good discussion about expansion...…...which is a real concern with the yellow metals. Steel, and copper/brass/bronze, expand at very different rates. And we're in a situation where the heat cycles are pretty extreme. He felt that cracking would be a problem over time, and I agree. Then we figured out just how much of an issue it might actually be. The truck sits most of the year, so there's fewer cycles...……….and the copper route costs about $11.75. So it's worth experimenting with.

304 5/8 tubing runs about $8/foot if you buy a full stick. I really don't need 20' of this stuff. Alro doubles the price at anything less than a full stick. Grainger will sell ya 6' at about $8/ft. Screw Alro, they can look at it sitting shiny on the shelf because it ain't goin' out the door, at least with me. So...…..I do have a steel alternative lined up, if the copper proves a disaster.

In case y'all missed it further back...……...I did buy a new part (Dorman), and was 1 1/2" too short,, and had no bellows This is the only alternative on a truck that's mostly been obsoleted, as far as Ford is concerned. Gotta roll yer own.

THE NIPPLES...………… I believe Ford used a Sch160 nipple in order to have some material to turn down to fit the 45* elbow. After looking at it for a while, I think this is a good feature to go with. I have a thinner nipple if I need it. Both nipples...…..$13.00 The primary reason for the nipples is that I need the pipe thread on one end of my new fitting. I don't have a taper attachment for the lathe, and my pipe threader isn't as clean as the factory made nipples.



Plenty o' meat to turn down.

THE COMPRESSION FITTING...…..I'm not sure I'm gonna use the brass fitting, due to heat issues, but I have it because it was in the store, and might as well buy it while there. 5 bucks. Steel unions are available from Grainger, which is probably the way I'll go. Local hydraulic, and truck folks, don't carry the steel compression unions...……..only hose end fittings......which I don't need......any fittings they do carry are mostly JIC...…….my flaring tools are SAE 45*………..and everything on the truck is an SAE 45*. Should I need to go with an SAE flare fitting, I can turn the male end of the part, and just buy a nut...…….

STEEL VS. BRASS FITTINGS...…..Again, I'm concerned about expansion, but there's another thing I wonder about. Most hydraulic fittings are made from 12L14, which is a leaded steel. I'm not sure how it behaves at elevated temperatures...……..although I've read some specs that say it's high operating temp (mechanical) is about 750*. But, ya compare that to the operating temp on the brass (400*), I might be better off buying or machining 12L14 fittings. 12L14 has become my go-to for anything involving threading...…...it's some sweet stuff...…..

So, at least I've got most of the building blocks in now. A few to go, but I've got a very good picture of what's needed. This takes time. I'm not a guy that deals with tubing...…..and I'm mixing materials and specifications because I'm forced to.

We were looking at the original EGR tube when I was in picking up the brazing supplies (only $27). I know this stuff wasn't mandrel bent, and I'm not sure it wasn't hot worked. Guy I've dealt with for over 2 decades, felt it might just have been bent with a shoe. We both were noticing just how much deformation there was in the bends. Despite being low angle bends, they're extremely tight radius bends,, when ya look at the inside radius.

My bending tools are limited to 1/2", so there's some other stuff comin' up I guess. I might just fill this stuff with sand, and use a piece of pipe to bend the radius.

[farmersammm]

Hey, before I get outta here. Some interesting stuff on expansion coefficients. Y'all think I'm blowin' smoke up yer butt, but I do get into this. It makes a difference, and it prevents do-overs.

https://www.lucasmilhaupt.com/EN/Bra...ndamentals.htm

[farmersammm]

Never take anything for granted. I checked the angle on the original fitting, just to verfy (expecting 45*), and it was actually 30*. Was time well spent.

Angle plate for setup, and ready to go.



Repurposing a compression fitting for the connection. I wasn't able to locate the proper size male flare nut to save my soul.....so it's gotta be a compression fitting. Takes more room, but it is what it is. Clearance is at a premium underneath the manifold.

The threads were shortened to match the OEM part. Ford was fighting for room under here, and I'm doing the same. It's tight.

[farmersammm]

A piece of stock is turned to fit the inside diameter of the pipe. It's first use will be (hopefully) to help control distortion when the thing is either welded, or silver soldered. Something like a mandrel so to speak.

After joining, the plug will be sliced in a thin piece,, and used for the end cap on the fitting.

Ready to weld, or solder. The scrap piece of pipe is to shield the threads during joining.

I'd prefer welding this, but I'm worried it will egg the fitting. Best choice is to partially weld it for strength, then fill the remaining section of joint on the ends of the oval with silver solder, keeping heat to a minimum by limiting actual welding. I think Ford made a bad choice soldering it together, but I figure it's the fastest thing to do in a mass produced part...…….and it's reliable, in that distortion isn't an issue.

Got bad weather coming in for 2 days, so that's about it for this so far as welding until it clears. Gives me time to start throwing together some sorta crude tubing bender. This is 5/8, and I really don't wanna buy some light duty, single size, bender to do the job.

Oh yah...…...last thing. I did a quick grind to get rid of the wrench lands...…….probably go ahead and actually turn it to get a better fit in this area. Can just turn the ground side around so it won't be in a weld area. Always something to be improved I guess...….never done one of these before.

[gnewby]

Interesting project, thank you for sharing the photos and doing such a good job of writing up your procedure.

[farmersammm]

Interesting project, thank you for sharing the photos and doing such a good job of writing up your procedure.

They sorta get weird, and change along the way

[farmersammm]

I thought I'd get a start on the bender shoe today, but I had a sorta unexpected surprise.

I'm figuring on using the rotary table, and the tailstock, to make the shoe.

So, I get all the stuff out. The tailstock has been sitting in its original plastic bag since I picked it up maybe 12yrs ago. And...….so has the little chuck. Humidity got in the chuck packing, and it has some bit of surface rust, but's ok. I figured I'd kill the morning making a mounting plate so's it could be put on the rotary table.

I never had occasion to use the table in the vertical position, so I didn't realize that it didn't fit the milling table

By this time, the rain started, and couldn't work outside to start cutting metal for the adapter plate(s).

Years ago, when the import tooling first hit the market, you could pick this stuff up real cheap. Luckily, that was the time I bought most of my stuff. Ebay was still a good source...…..nowdays, Ebay is getting a little pricey. I don't know how a guy can afford to get started these days.

Anyways......this is a good read for anybody interested in the tube bending basics https://www.listertube.com/links/tub...-design-guide/ and http://pines-eng.com/pdfs/H&HBendGuide.pdf

Don't have a clue what I'm doing, but I'm thinking the little hand benders just ain't gonna cut it. If the copper line fails, next step has to be stainless OEM style tubing...…...which I'm thinking is beyond the little hand benders.

It would be nice to have an adult mill...……..I think I'm running out of headroom rapidly. It'll work though

[farmersammm]

Rain, rain, and more rain. Then the entrance to the shop was about 6" deep in water, and I'm not gonna run extension cords thru 6" of water. So progress is a leeeeeetle slow.

Anyways...…...got the adapter plate done yesterday. A good how-to for welding studs into plate.

Put your nut on the bolt where it will be when done. Then mark the bolt for cutting.



Cut the bolt so you have a bit of depth to add filler metal.



This step insures that the stud is straight. The nut, plus the washers, insures that the cutoff bolt is absolutely square to the hole. Apply clamping force any way you can, to force the nuts/washers tight and flush.



Plug weld, and grind flat.



And......we're in biznesssss!!

Still needs slotting for the milling table T nuts, but that has to wait for when I have a lot of slotting to do. The chuck adapter needs some slotting, so it'll get done then.

[farmersammm]

Got a good start on the chuck adapter plate.







Determining depth of centering boss/cavity/whatever

[farmersammm]

Cut it kinda close



And...…..we're in



I need to find the center line radius of the screw holes on the chuck.

Turn a piece of stock to fit the center hole in the chuck.

Using the stock, and the screw,, I can now find the radius for drilling the screw holes

The stinkin' screws are metric I spent an hour over at Fastenal, with the counter dood,, trying to find a screw that fit the stinkin' chuck. Neither of us could figure out that it took an 8mm screw until we tried just about every size in the store

Actual diameter in ENGLISH is .310...…….and the closest drill bit I have is a number drill that's about .312 diameter. The next size up is a bit bigger. Methinks my equipment ain't accurate enough to hold to .002, so I might go one size larger just to be safe......or keep a file handy and use the .312 bit

I might of been confident using the .312 drill if the plate was still attached to the rotary table in its original position, but it's been removed to place spacers underneath it for drilling. My thinking was that I wanted the plate flush to the table, with no spacers, when doing the mounting slot...…...thereby making sure the chuck was absolutely square with the table surface. Just a matter of trying to remove any possible error on my setup.

[VPT]

Is all this for an egr tube? I'd put a plug in it and be done.

[Oxford1]

Is all this for an egr tube? I'd put a plug in it and be done.

No, no, no. Can’t do that. Some guy somewhere told him that he heard that possibly the computer could maybe potentially not like that and cause the engine not to run well, theoretically at least. Absolutely necessary that you spend about three weeks f’ing around in paralysis by analysis, not fixing the real problem with this truck (and as it turns out, not fixing the one he created either), which is that that it’s a rolling gas chamber because the manifold bolts are broken. Could have run it safely until the Resurrection with the little leak at the EGR. All of which begs the question: since the underlying issue was that he desperately needed to haul hay- so much so that he was willing to risk his life to do so- is the hay hauled, or was that BS?

And before the fanboys jump to his defense, I will stipulation for their benefit that “he’s just doing it the way he has to”, that “he’s doing it the right way”, that I don’t understand what it’s like in the real world where men are men and just “get ‘er done”, and whatever other hero worshipping nonsense you want to send my way. This isn’t farming, it’s not repair, and it’s damn sure not the real world.

[farmersammm]

Holes have to be drilled to hold the chuck to the plate.

Spotting drills work real nice for starting a hole Center drill works just as good, but it's mostly a matter of choice. I feel the spotting drill does a better job.

The socket head screws have to be countersunk, which means the plate has to be flipped, and ya lose center.

Cone shaped edge finder works real good for finding center on the individual holes.



Due to the big heads on the screws, the countersinks were done to a depth of .530 So, ya got .530 for the countersink, and .125 for the chuck boss groove...……..that's the reason I had to use 3/4 plate. Not crazy about it, big ol' honkin' chunk of metal. I can see why guys use aluminum for these plates.

Anyways.....it all fits

[farmersammm]

The edges of the plate have to be rounded I guess. Actually, the overhang comes dangerously close to binding on the rotary table locks.

If you have a pretty accurate arbor, it's pretty easy to center the rotary table again. A guy oughta sweep the bore for NASA stuff , but this will do for most Earthly stuff.



Chuck is used to center the plate, then the corners are milled. HSS round tool blanks are very accurately ground, and can be clamped in a collet, then the jaws of the chuck closed to center the assembly on the previously centered rotary table.



The whole chunk of iron is then assembled on the adapter plate, and checked for true. Dead nutz on Which ain't bad, considering I'm using straight from the mill plate.

Shows ya how good the stuff from the roll line is. Had a big ol blob of coolant on the lens.

[farmersammm]

So, now we gots an entire system



More checking...……………………

When the chuck is bolted to the rotary table, it changes the mix. I'm lookin' at about .004 deflection.





The deflection holds true through 360 degrees of chuck rotation. Tells ya that the machine work is good. I feel that the problem is the placement of the hold down bolts on the rotary table casting. They're flush with the top/front of the table, instead of being centered. I don't see how that could have been avoided when the table was built. No room for bolts on the side. They coulda put a pocket on the backside for a 3rd bolt, but it is what it is. In another life I'd probably have an angle plate on the backside, built into the adapter plate, but for now...………. .004 shim stock will do the trick. I'll find out if there's a rigidity problem later.

It may also be that once everything is tightly bolted, there's a warp/irregularity somewhere in the adapter plate. I can't seem to deflect the table forward, even leaning on it...…...so it might just be a matter of bluing the bottom of the adapter plate to see if there's a high spot when everything's under torque.

[farmersammm]

No, no, no. Can’t do that. Some guy somewhere told him that he heard that possibly the computer could maybe potentially not like that and cause the engine not to run well, theoretically at least. Absolutely necessary that you spend about three weeks f’ing around in paralysis by analysis, not fixing the real problem with this truck (and as it turns out, not fixing the one he created either), which is that that it’s a rolling gas chamber because the manifold bolts are broken. Could have run it safely until the Resurrection with the little leak at the EGR. All of which begs the question: since the underlying issue was that he desperately needed to haul hay- so much so that he was willing to risk his life to do so- is the hay hauled, or was that BS?

And before the fanboys jump to his defense, I will stipulation for their benefit that “he’s just doing it the way he has to”, that “he’s doing it the right way”, that I don’t understand what it’s like in the real world where men are men and just “get ‘er done”, and whatever other hero worshipping nonsense you want to send my way. This isn’t farming, it’s not repair, and it’s damn sure not the real world.

[farmersammm]

This closes out the vertical rotary table.

Stupid is, as stupid does. I should have known that the base plate for the table would have some whoop dee doo's. The studs were welded to the plate! DOH!!!! Heat warped the plate, and caused the table to sit funny, and show the .004 error.

Anyways, checked out the way the table was moving, and figured out that I had to face mill the plate.

Woulda been nice to use a fancy face mill, but to get close to the studs, and work around the plate, I chose a 3/4 end mill. Not real pretty...…….but then I ain't either

Set it up again, torqued everything down, checked the fit.

I'm absolutely thrilled with the way it turned out. One off's are a killer, and ya never know if you're doing it right.

Only one other feature I guess.

If anybody does one of these, especially on manual equipment...…..ya don't want to do any more setups than you have to. Kills tons of times.

For anything not requiring absolute accuracy, I'm using a scribed baseline.

I tram the mill on the baseline. The wiggler gives good results. Your eyes are better than you think. I'm almost blind in my left eye these days, and I can still put the pointer on the line...……….then just tram it in. This is your baseline. Everything else runs offa this. (xcuse the coolant on the lens)

Anways……..in the spirit of keeping setups to a minimum, you can, in this situation, lay off that stupid squaring every edge of the plate. You don't need to. The only square edge you need is the one you use to index the plate, and index the rotary table.

We're looking at the same scribed line in the previous pic. It's used as a setup line for milling the edge of the plate facing the camera. This milled edge, in conjunction with a square, is used to index the adapter plate on the mill table. If you look close, there's a stamped "S" on the corner of the plate. This identifies the edge of the plate that was used to scribe the baseline. This edge is square with the scribed line. Once the plate is bolted to the mill table, then the "'S" edge is used to index the rotary table on the plate. So, ya got one scribed line, one milled edge, and an ID mark......all ya need...……………...less setup time

Been looking at that tailstock for the rotary table since I bought it, over a decade ago. Same with the little chuck that I bought for use on the rotary table, over a decade. I finally got down to brass tacks, and got it done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Pizz, and moan, all ya want...….but my stuff goes in all directions. One thing leads to another. Makes for an interesting life. At my age, I'm enjoying "interesting". They gonna be shovelin' dirt in my face before not too long, so I refuse to adhere to idiotic standards imposed by others. I urge y'all to do the same, if you're able to. I might gritch and groan (K'kins term) about the holdups, and the workload...…….but dammy…..it keeps ya glad to get up in the morning.

Was gonna start cutting the plate for the tube bender today, but it's just too dam heavy to move by myself. Gonna have to wait till K'kins can help me get it on the table. Tomorrow is a rain/snow day...……..so I'm gonna enjoy the lull.

[farmersammm]

BTW...………………..I'm off the hook with the hay deal...…….at least till it dries up. Can't haul it, if'n ya can't get to it. Everybody else's place is lookin' like mine these past few weeks.

So, I got time to do what I like to do...……...make it like I want it, and do it like I like to do it. I suppose I could use the down time to sit in the house, and gripe about how unfair life is...……..workin' is a whole lot more fun.

I keep doing this...……...the actual work posts are above this one. This isn't the last post about the actual work.

[vwguy3]

No, no, no. Can’t do that. Some guy somewhere told him that he heard that possibly the computer could maybe potentially not like that and cause the engine not to run well, theoretically at least. Absolutely necessary that you spend about three weeks f’ing around in paralysis by analysis, not fixing the real problem with this truck (and as it turns out, not fixing the one he created either), which is that that it’s a rolling gas chamber because the manifold bolts are broken. Could have run it safely until the Resurrection with the little leak at the EGR. All of which begs the question: since the underlying issue was that he desperately needed to haul hay- so much so that he was willing to risk his life to do so- is the hay hauled, or was that BS?

And before the fanboys jump to his defense, I will stipulation for their benefit that “he’s just doing it the way he has to”, that “he’s doing it the right way”, that I don’t understand what it’s like in the real world where men are men and just “get ‘er done”, and whatever other hero worshipping nonsense you want to send my way. This isn’t farming, it’s not repair, and it’s damn sure not the real world.

Dude, you seem to have a serious man crush on Sammmmmmm.
If you don't like his content, move on.....or maybe it's more fun to be a crotchy old bastard.