Welding Web History

[Charles Brown]

[USER="264"]Charles Brown[/USER] would you please consider creating at thread over here about the History of WeldingWeb? I think that is great content to preserve and you obviously spent a good bit of time drafting it up. https://weldingweb.wemakesocial.com/vbb/forum.php

Please copy this post so that you can share it once we see back to our former self. we will continue to adapt and evolve into the future but a post like this is invaluable as we move towards the next phase. the WW community shall remain a place for critical discourse that is not Corporately directed if possible.

In compliance with the repeated request of Robb M., here are the two Welding Web History posts copied over from the March 2020 temporary WW forum:

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Well, Robb M. , since you've only been here since 2013, I can give you a one sentence summary on how the Welding Web came alive about 10 years prior to your joining. I had forgotten the particulars of this history, but since you had me worried there for a moment that I'd have to copy all of my much older posts, I searched my post history from January 2004 and a few foggy memories came back...

chuckwk started the WW forum in late August 2003, but nobody came. The popular welding forums at the time were both run by ITW, Hobart's Weld Talk and the Millerwelds forum. Lincoln Electric never had an open forum, but the Chaski.org message board (aka The Home Machinist! forum) had the welding machine swap prolific Brand X as a moderator, and a Lincoln Applications Engineer from Canada (who was a member of more than one welding forum back then, but I probably shouldn't give away his various user names). Probably the most active board at the time was Weld Talk, on the Hobart site.

For a time there Miller and Hobart were very gracious hosts, accommodating the expression of any discontent with their products with public customer service, which served to endear users to their brand. But one day, someone opened up their new welding machine that had a USA flag on it, as if made in the USA, and found a bunch of parts made in foreign countries. This became a hot topic back then in the post 911 resurgence of patriotism, as the USA had entrenched into prolonged and then growing war in the Middle East.

An ITW representative named "Rock" on the Weld Talk and Miller forums, not be confused with master weldor (in real life) Rocky D of both this and that forum, was apparently disciplined, demoted, and summarily dismissed by ITW for providing honest answers to members questions about the country of origin of the machines. I'm not quite clear about all that happened regarding Rock, but it sure upset a lot of regular members.

One remarkable member, Franz , who had just happened to notice the empty existence of the alive but dormant Welding Web forum, suggested that everyone who took issue with how Weld Talk management treated Rock, simply leave Weld Talk and come over here. Chuck didn't know what hit WW when the aircraft carrier full of Weld Talk refugees docked at Welding Web in January 2004.

Franz wrote

"Chuck, the guy who owns this place has had it up and more or less empty for a few months, and I remembered it.
The best part, chuck didn't have any idea what was about to hit him when he looked at his board one morning and found it invaded and cargo being offloaded.
Chuck has been one hell of a generous host, and is probably still trying to figure out what happened, while he trys to adjust to our unique style, and I hope he still has some hair left.
He even pulled the free ads he had for ITW products and replaced them with lawnmower ads."

Well, that bit of history turned out to be more than just a sentence, but as WW is poised on the brink of a new beginning, it seemed like the previous beginning might be of interest to the newer, more prolific members like Hobbytime, who wonders why some don't post as much. One reason, I realize, is because the forum friends I followed here are gone. Franz hasn't posted since 2005, which is about when I stopped posting regularly. Scott S, (not to be confused with Scott V.) who did so much work getting WW up to equivalent Weld Talk speed in the beginning, is no longer even a member of record here.

Heck, even Lanse, who back then was just a young graduating high school student at the time, showing us his welds and asking us which welding school he should go to (he chose Hobart, and eventually became YouTube famous as ChuckE2009, and later infamous in 2019) isn't here to talk about his choices in shielding gas, or in life.

So there is drama, along with well delivered welding advice, all enveloped in these archives.

Thank you Robb M., for all your efforts, even if not to savor the memories, at least to save them.

----------

Maybe I never understood the seemingly unnecessary cloak and dagger forum secrecy over who owns WW now.

Or maybe I'm going stir crazy over this whole stay at home shelter in place pandemic and looming GreatER Depression.

Or maybe, I'm simply curious about what happened to WW, what is happening to WW, and what will happen to WW.

So I dug deeper during this surreal down time. And in so doing, I'd like to add a few more comments on the history of WW as it relates to the thread title, which asks if there is a "Reason to change the Welding Web?"

In the fall of 2003, Welding Web was a nascent and neglected forum with a catchy URL, with fewer than 10 members, of which only about 3 were active.

One cold winter Friday evening in early January 2004, a supervisor at ITW escorted the well respected, highly regarded Hobart Weld Talk Forum ITW employee known as "ROCK" out of the building to the unemployment line, so to speak, for speaking the truth about ITW products.

The active members of Weld Talk at the time were furious, and decided, en masse, to abandon Weld Talk over that very weekend, so that when the supervisor returned to work on Monday morning, a huge drop in traffic would be noticed. Weld Talk, once the most active (and still arguably the most informative, considering the archives) welding forum on the internet, would be empty. This sudden emptiness would send a strong message to the supervisor and to ITW.

Come Monday morning, Hobart's board was a graveyard. And Welding Web was ALIVE, suddenly teaming with all the talkative welding talent from Weld Talk. Chuck, the original owner and founder of WW, also owned Lawnsite and Plowsite, and straight out of the Miller blue (literally and figuratively) his most dormant site, Welding Web, suddenly became his most popular... at least for brief period of time.

I found another post of Franz, the Weld Talk member who brought everyone over to WW. Franz has a way of putting things that I would never personally say in the manner in which he says them, so he is quoted verbatim below:

"Things went well for a while till the fool who bragged about dropping a barn on himself and the Bobcat he was running got the idea he could put a fat kid with a weed wacker in charge. He coined the term Garbage Gang, and watched Welding Web become what Penton bought cheap."

So enter Penton, stage left, in 2006. Which is funny, because I stopped posting in 2006, not because of any awareness of Penton's purchase, but because the active members that I had followed over here began disappearing. I don't know if they drifted or were driven away... I didn't get that deep into it. The original culture simply changed, even though the activity level here remained strong for a few more years yet.

Franz stopped posting on WW a long time ago, but his brisk, if not brusque assessment of the post Penton purchase period continues in retrospect elsewhere as follows:

"Penton's been through Bankruptcy since then and is probably on their 3rd team of college boys playing with keyboards and business models. My money says they're playing suckers to see if a buyer pops up."

And indeed, another buyer did. But taking a page out of Robb M's Book of Notgonnasay, we'll get to who that buyer was later. First, let's look briefly at who Penton was. because I think understanding the ownership of Penton very tellingly explains the title to this thread: Reason to change the Welding Web.

During the 2006 time period when Penton Media was acquiring Welding Web, Penton itself was being acquired by Prism Business Media. Prism was co-owned by US Equity Partners II, which was an investment fund sponsored by Wasserstein & Co, L.P., a private equity and investment firm focused on leveraged buyouts (more on these LBO guys later), and by Highfields Capital Management, an investment management firm, and by Lexington Partners, a secondary private equity capital manager providing liquidity in limited partnership interests.

But wait, there are still more crisply dry cleaned New York suits involved here. Prism's merger with Penton in the fall of 2006 led to Wasserstein & Co. Limited Partners, the sponsor of Equity Partners II, co owned by Highfield Capital Management and Lexington Partners, to partner with Mid-Ocean Partners, a New York-based alternative asset manager. That's a lot of suited up investment asset managers and limited partners, and not a welder in sight... which starts to gives some insight into the reason for the changes at Welding Web.

So, as Franz said, this laundry list of ivy league college frathouse pump and dump vulture capital partners does indeed eventually find a buyer. But it took 10 years and a trip across the pond to find one, in the form of Informa, PLC, based in London, England, in 2016. The price? 1.56 Billion Buck$ with a B. (1.2 bn British Pounds at the exchange rate of the day, for anyone fact checking Informa press releases.)

The 33 page Power Point presentation on Informa's proposed (and eventually consummated) purchase of Penton, that Informa PLC presented to their shareholders, never so much as even mentioned Welding Web, not even once.

Some five vertical markets that involve welding, including Design & Manufacturing, Infrastructure, Transportation, Agriculture, and the Food industry are all identified iconically, numerically, graphically and in writing as the targeted business to business brands being acquired, including media entites such as American Machinist (now there's an oxymoron, given the purchase by a British marketing entity).

Still, not one willow of a wisp of a whisper of a mention of Welding Web. But they bought it.

And this is the sale transaction of four years ago, in 2016, not the most recent sale that precipitated Welding Web going dark in February 2020. That was a completely different transaction. And 2020 isn't the first time WW went dark for a few weeks. It happened again inbetween these transaction, back in February of 2018... but that is getting into the weeds.

Back to the WW purchase history, we are still sitting in 2016 in this "brief" synopsis, which is the same year that a certain WW member first joined this forum. Some 5,500 posts later, this member postulated that because a wheezing old geezer hasn't posted as much in 20 years as he has in 2, that this somehow has to do with why and where WW is today.

But keep in mind that prior to this member ever joining, WW had already changed hands at least twice.. transacting between a half dozen Leer Jet loads full of slick silk suited Partners. Say 98/2 to them and they think percentage of profit and loss, not Ar and O2. Say stick out to them and you'll get sent to sexism sensitivity training. Welding Web isn't even a blip on their EBITDA radar.

The "reasons for Welding Web changes" likely have little to do with how prolific WW members are, whether they put up 5,500 posts, or put up 5,500 words in one post. Where WW is headed depends on the directions that it is being lead. Owners and leadership dictate direction. While the forum's content and energy emerge from the members, it is the forum's owners and leadership that enable the platform to flourish or flounder.

So let's look at the most recent former owners, Informa PLC. I've copied Informa's most relevant press release of year end results for 2019, which includes a very oblique reference to a divestiture of interests in October of 2019 that other sleuthing proved to include WW. Before reading the quote below, you might want to adjust your hood's shade level a tad, as it is nearly impossible to see any puddle of reality behind the blinding arc of rhetoric...

Informa Continued Growth & Delivery, Market Specialisation & Growth, the International Exhibitions, Events, Information Services and Advanced Learning Group, releases results for the 12 months to 31 December 2019, reporting continuing benefits of Market Specialisation, including further revenue growth and strong cash generation.
2019 Financial Highlights
•Strong revenue growth: +22.0% reported growth and +3.5% underlying, reflecting full year of UBM
•Improved Adjusted Operating Profit growth:+27.5% reported growth and +6.5% underlying
•Higher Statutory Operating Profit: +48.2% growth to £538.1m (2018: £363.2m)
•Increased Adjusted Diluted Earnings per Share1: +4.3% growth to 51.3p (2018:49.2p), reflecting timing of UBM addition and share issue; pro-forma EPS growth of +16.1%
•Lower Statutory Diluted Earnings per Share: 18.0p compared to 19.7p in 2018, reflecting ful-year impact of UBM, primarily the higher share count and amortisation levels;
•StrongFree Cash Flow:£722.1m versus £503.2m in 2018;
•Strengthened Balance Sheet: Reduction in leverage ratioto 2.5x, in line with plan (2018: 2.9x)
•Enhanced Dividend per Share: Proposed final DPS+7.4%, delivering total DPS of 23.5p (2018: 21.9p)

“In 2019, the Informa Group delivered a sixth consecutive year of growth in revenues, adjusted operating profits, adjusted earnings per share, free cash flow and dividends. Over the past six years, we have been refocusing The Informa Group on specialist markets, building brands and deploying technology, to deliver consistent returns for our customers and our shareholders. Our subscriptions-related businesses, which account for around 35% of revenue, continue to grow consistently."

Continued Growth and Delivery in 2019, with Group underlying revenue growth of 3.5%1:
•Informa Markets: Increased international breadth and depth within specialist markets delivered underlying revenue growth of +4.3%. Reported growth of+40.5%, including a full year of UBM;
•Informa Connect: Continued focus on major B2B brands in Pharma and Finance deliveredfurther improvement, with underlying revenue growth1of+2.9%. Reported revenues -0.7%,reflecting the sale of the Life Sciences Media Portfolio in January 2019;
•Informa Tech: Solif performance in year of combination and creation, whilst building strong foundations for future growth. Underlying revenue growth of +2.0% and reported revenue growth of+46.0%, the latter including a full year of UBM and five months of the IHS Markit TMT Portfolio;
•Informa Intelligence: Increased focus on strongest brands in attractive specialist markets delivered an increase in underlying revenue growth to+3.3%. Reported revenues at-0.7% after divestiture of Agribusiness portfolio at end of June and Industry & Infrastructure portfolio in October; (DING DING DING DING DING DING... HIDDEN HERE IS WHERE THE WW SALE BELL RINGS)
•Taylor & Francis: Solid subscription renewals, strong momentum in Open Access and steady performance in advanced learning products delivered robust underlying revenue growth of +2.4%. Reported revenue growth of +5.0%, benefiting from positive currency tailwinds.
Key Operational Highlights:
Following the completion of the Accelerated Integration Plan (“AIP”), Informa is operating as one business, with a resilient and balanced international platform built for further Market Specialisation and future growth. Our focus is on:
•Expanding our portfolio of B2B products and knowledge services: By broadening and strengthening our range of B2B services and advanced learning products for specialist markets, we have the opportunity to sell more services to more customers, including in events, data, digital, content, open access, consulting, research, media and marketing services;
•Enhancing our position in specialist markets through targeted expansion:We are continuing to target additions and partnerships that deepen our connections and add new capabilities in attractive specialist markets;
•Strengthening our operating capability: Building on our operational fitness programme we are further simplifying and consolidating systems and strengthening operating capabilities in key areas, including product development, product management, data management and marketing automation;
•Improving our Financial Fitness: We are continuing to use the strength and scale of our cash flows and flexible, long-term financing to maintain a strong balance sheet and underpin our dividends

Maybe Google can translate the pontific gobbldegook above into English?

I'm certainly not the sharpest tungsten tip in a tig torch, but I think they are talking about money? Without actually saying anything? The word that was repeated most often was "growth". Well... one thing they are not talking about: Welding Web... except to say that they pitched and ditched the division which included WW back in October. And that new buyer, who announced their purchase in early November, and who owns WW now...

... is a mystery.

Or at least, WAS a mystery, until I made it my micro mission to find out during this current stay at home order, especially after 4 earnest attempts at asking the question here in the forum remained skirted, deflected, avoided, and unanswered. Who owns WW now is a reasonable curiousity, given the recent outage, the looming erasure, and the pending transition of WW again.

So let's see who bought WW this time:

NASHVILLE, TN//November 11th, 2019 – "Endeavor Business Media announces the acquisition of a number of Informa’s Industry & Infrastructure and Auto aftermarket media brands, expanding its position as one of the fastest growing B2B companies. With a committed focus on delivering exceptional content and business opportunities, these Informa brands will join Endeavor’s complementary portfolio of brands and events to create new multi-channel platforms for its audience and advertisers."

“Endeavor is very excited about bringing the Industry & Infrastructure Intelligence and Auto Aftermarket media brands into the business to expand what we are already offering in these growing markets. We look forward to investing in these brands to take them to the next level for long-term sustainable success, leveraging Endeavor’s platform-wide strengths in print, digital, events and marketing solutions."

“We are confident that the alignment of Informa and Endeavor’s brands in these markets will provide greater scale and innovative new opportunities for clients and audiences alike. Endeavor’s culture and organizational structure based in a data-informed, customer-first philosophy will create a compelling market advantage and new opportunities for the whole portfolio. With Endeavor’s investment in new and cutting-edge products and services, this opportunity to bring aligned marketing services capabilities and talent from Informa to Endeavor will be a great fit for all.”

More gobbledygook.

Franz put it in words that I can better relate to:

Welding Web is just another shop that closed, leaving some good men figuring out how to get their toolboxes out.
I remember back in the fall of 2003, when WW was an empty shop with a member base that could be counted on one hand. It was members like Franz, and other human beings like him, who attracted the crowds of new members whose sudden presence jump started a dormant forum into a vibrantly active community who cared about welding. But not even this magic could happen without a supportive and responsive forum owner.

Human beings who care are the soul and center of any forum... not a crock of corporate speak about "broadening and strengthening the breadth and depth of our B2B brands to leverage exceptional opportunity and compelling market advantage to deliver revenue growth." Beyond this blizzard blather, what do the people who string these phrases together actually do? Besides buy, repackage, and resell perceptions of brands, what do they actually build?

Unless Robb M is trying to talk him out of the keys, it looks like Chris Ferrell, CEO of Endeavor Business Media out of Nashville Tennesse, is currently the man in ultimate charge of WW, at least for the last few months. I finally was able to answer my own question, and along the way, found a few answers to questions I didn't previously ask.

Forum ownership and leadership can make a meaningful difference in forum functionality.

I found another welding forum, owned and operated by a down to earth human being named Jody who is passionate about welding (posting weekly welding tips and tricks videos on YouTube). Since many members there used to be members over here, it isn't so much that the grass is greener on the other welding forum. It is that the grass hasn't been doused with weed killer by the corporate owners.

Apparently, WW has been little more than a weed tucked in a cobblestone crack on a London street paved with New York gold, where an annual parade of puffed up Partners party with percentages and gab about "growth" over tea and martinis. They don't give a sliver of slag about the profession, the hobby, the science, or the art of welding. Nor do they know or care about the history of individual contributions made to WW, including photos, that comprise the library of member to member discoveries that create a personal connection to this craft.

That's why WW got hit with the Round-up. That's why WW went out of service, more than once. That's why the WW hard drive got deleted. That's why WW doesn't have fully functioning forum software, which makes it all the more difficult for members to participate. That's the reason for the change.

[Capt B]

Thanks! Very informative.

[Robb M.]

The 2018 downtime was a result of a SAN disk array failure that lost three months of data for both WW and HVAC-Talk.com, another former Penton and former Informa site. I've resurrected it successfully twice now and hope to do the same for WeldingWeb. Thanks Charles for sharing that. The recent downtime was a communications problem between Informa and Endeavor. Informa thought Endeavor had all the assets and again deleted HVAC-Talk and WeldingWeb. Endeavor then took poor advice from another Corporation I am very familiar with, Internet Brands. At this time, I am hosting the website using my own hosting account, and there is no reason to expect more downtime like what the Community has experienced more than it ever should have.

cheers,
robb

[6Boys]

How is any money made to support this forum?

[Louie1961]

The 2018 downtime was a result of a SAN disk array failure that lost three months of data for both WW and HVAC-Talk.com,

Not meaning to be snippy, but no backups? Why not stick this all in AWS and automate your backups to something incredibly super cheap like glacier?

[Robb M.]

Not meaning to be snippy, but no backups? Why not stick this all in AWS and automate your backups to something incredibly super cheap like glacier?

We asked the same question. There was no off-site back up, and the array which did house the backups was rendered useless. We are now on AWS.

[Hobbytime]

hey nice that the OP mentioned me by name........lots of good info on ownership changes and lessons in business, and as always it comes down to $$$$$$....
it may be the owners that let a forum live or die, but other social media platforms are pulling people much faster than forums like this...so in the end or down the road if activity dries up to a trickle.there is no monetary reason to keep a forum alive, so yeah I think older members that are not active contribute to the down fall of a forum...and people that post alot regardless of the topic bring traffic to a website, either from visitors that want to read the so called" drama" and stories or responses from other active members..you can agree any activity is better than a dead site with no activity....

[_Dom]

Thanks Rob for all your hard work. Glad to see normal operations.

[Louie1961]

We are now on AWS.

Make sure you ask your account manager or CSM for a free "well architected" review. Then ask for a cloud economics/cloud financial management cost optimization review. You should never have another disruption again after that!

[gnewby]

Robb, I am another one of the old farts that came onto this site in 2004. During the years I have saw a lot of names come and go, but through all the years there has hardly been a day gone by that I have not checked in on Welding Web. I am really glad that you, and anyone that may of helped you to get the Web site back to the way it was a few months ago. I am also glad to hear Charles Brown mention of several of the names that came over to this site in 2004. Franz, Rocky D, Dan & many many more.

They all contributed several projects, ideas, and lots of years of wisdom. I also want to say Rocky D, I hope you are up there above smiling down on Welding Web. Several of the others that came over hear originally I have no idea where they are anymore, but Rocky D passed away, I think it was this last year? Franz I know was over on one of the other welding sites for awhile but left there within the past six months.

Thank You Welding Web for being a big part in my day for the last 16 years!

[Robb M.]

Thanks for sticking with us gnewby! here's to another 16 great years of WeldingWeb!

cheers,
robb

[gnewby]

Thank You Robb, all your hard work on this site is appreciated! Wow 16 more years would put me at 84 years old, I really will be an old fart then LOL!

[JD1]

Charles Brown, your thread is epic. Thanks for posting that.

Robb M, thank you for your work on WW despite being frustrated and hampered. Thank you also for replying to concerns instead of just staying silent. That makes us feel like someone actually cares about WW functionality.

[axehind]

For a time there Miller and Hobart were very gracious hosts, accommodating the expression of any discontent with their products with public customer service, which served to endear users to their brand. But one day, someone opened up their new welding machine that had a USA flag on it, as if made in the USA, and found a bunch of parts made in foreign countries. This became a hot topic back then in the post 911 resurgence of patriotism, as the USA had entrenched into prolonged and then growing war in the Middle East.

An ITW representative named "Rock" on the Weld Talk and Miller forums, not be confused with master weldor (in real life) Rocky D of both this and that forum, was apparently disciplined, demoted, and summarily dismissed by ITW for providing honest answers to members questions about the country of origin of the machines. I'm not quite clear about all that happened regarding Rock, but it sure upset a lot of regular members.

This is how I remember it mostly. Keep in mind that what I'm saying is only from memory and it's been 16+ years. So my memory could be wrong.... There was speculation that Rock didn't know about the foreign parts until that person posted those pictures in the forum about it. From memory Rock was always quite proud that the welders were made in the USA and up until when those pictures were posted always scoffed at any idea that there were any parts not made in the USA. He was dismissed rather abruptly shortly after that person posted those pictures. There was also speculation that Rock was upset when he found out about the parts and quit. But that's all just speculation.

[Oldiron2]

Thanks for sticking with us gnewby! here's to another 16 great years of WeldingWeb!

cheers,
robb

Robb; have you ever looked back through many of the old threads here? I just spent too much time enjoying a few, including this one:
https://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthrea...idn-t-Evacuate

Another one I started back then and could've added to if I'd gotten some pictures yesterday when I got another Craigslist-Free generator is here:
https://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthrea...y-IN-Your-Area

I still have some old messages to/from members who joined in 2004 or so. Denrep was active then but seems to have disappeared, as I mostly had for a long time, although I occasionally referred people here for specific advice or to see the Old Welding-related Picture thread which once was the second-most viewed on the site.

[whtbaron]

Those are great suggestions.... too bad so many of the early pics have been lost in crashes....

[JD1]

I still have some old messages to/from members who joined in 2004 or so. Denrep was active then but seems to have disappeared, as I mostly had for a long time, although I occasionally referred people here for specific advice or to see the Old Welding-related Picture thread which once was the second-most viewed on the site.

The attachments won't show up even when the link is clicked on.

[Oldiron2]

The attachments won't show up even when the link is clicked on.

re: https://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthrea...lated+pictures

Some of them still do for me; some, perhaps many, were either posted off-site or maybe removed when members left. Post 11 still shows Acetylene Annie: 1942 working with an OA torch at her bench.

[shortfuse]

I believe this is probably the most informative thread I have ever read on WW, and it's not even a welding thread. Thanks to all who have kept it going and Robb of late in particular. Hope it keeps going!!

[John T]

Nice write-up Mr. Brown ...

Question:
How does Zap (zapster) fit into all this?

Also,
I thought Robb was just a tech guy volunteering to help out over here whenever he had free time....

I didn’t (and still don’t) think he was trying to “get the keys”

What do I know?
I’ve only been here since 2005

I don’t remember it ever being perfect