Welding Machines

[Pat295]

Good afternoon,

I'm looking to buy my first welding. I learned to weld stick and oxy through the Ag college I attend, but I have yet to own my own machine. We used large old millers when practicing. I know this topic is beating a dead horse, but i have been sifting through information for about a week now and I see an overall consensus that the brands to stick to are Lincoln, Hobart, miller, and ESAB. I'm currently working on fixing an exhaust system in my truck as well as welding a new floor pan for an old 77 nova. This being Said I know I generally need a lower amperage machine for such thin work. I can weld thin sheet metal on 6013 sticks so I'm not afraid to weld any of it with sticks that being said I'm also still open to mig/learning a mig.

Are there any recommended machines for around $500 or less in this price range? I'm no professional welder and don't have to worry to much on the duty cycle or even longevity of the welder I'm also still in college and pay my through college so cost is a large factor as you can imagine. I plan on upgrading and getting a much better welder once out of college when I can properly save money to get a decent multi process machine. So this isn't the kind I plan on having for a life time, though if one exists in this price range I wouldn't be apposed.

I'm just looking for advice from those who have been there with so many welders on the market what would be recommended for this purpose? (also I'm in Georgia and it's rather hard to find a used welder for a decent price no one seems to be letting em go. Even old Lincoln tombstones are going for $300)

[wb4rt]

Hi Pat.

Where in Georgia are you? I’m in NW Ga and see decent used MIG welders on CL fairly regularly. Here’s one just across TN state line that seems like a reasonable price.

https://chattanooga.craigslist.org/t...110119543.html

That’s the kind I would look for based on your requirements.

Welcome to the forum.

[Welder Dave]

You don't want stick for autobody welding. Look for a used Mig welder in the 130+ amp range that runs on 220V. A dual voltage machine will work but run it on 220 so you need don't larger breakers or are limited in amps. Get one that uses shielding gas and isn't just a self-shielded flux-core model. I'd get a name brand so you can get parts and consumables. Miller, Lincoln or the newer Hobart that is similar to Miller. Older Hobart's can be difficult to get parts for. If you find a machine and aren't sure if it's worth purchasing post it on here.

[Pat295]

Thanks for the replies. Unluckily that one was gone before I even had a chance to look at which model. But I'm over by lake lanier if that helps. The ones I have seen used are real close to the price of a new one. And yeah that's my hold up with some of the MIG welders I'll find some in a decent price, but without shielding gas I'm not to prone to get it. As though I will probably learn flux cored I'm not to prone to do so right now. And as for not welding autobody with stick may I ask why that is? It would be just the floor boards and with 1/16 6013 rods I'd imagine it would do the job nicely. But I could be mistaken (there are probably a ton of variables I'm not even considering yet) I'll grab the list of welders I was looking at in a minute to see if any would hopefully fit the bill.

[Willie B]

Good afternoon,

I'm looking to buy my first welding. I learned to weld stick and oxy through the Ag college I attend, but I have yet to own my own machine. We used large old millers when practicing. I know this topic is beating a dead horse, but i have been sifting through information for about a week now and I see an overall consensus that the brands to stick to are Lincoln, Hobart, miller, and ESAB. I'm currently working on fixing an exhaust system in my truck as well as welding a new floor pan for an old 77 nova. This being Said I know I generally need a lower amperage machine for such thin work. I can weld thin sheet metal on 6013 sticks so I'm not afraid to weld any of it with sticks that being said I'm also still open to mig/learning a mig.

Are there any recommended machines for around $500 or less in this price range? I'm no professional welder and don't have to worry to much on the duty cycle or even longevity of the welder I'm also still in college and pay my through college so cost is a large factor as you can imagine. I plan on upgrading and getting a much better welder once out of college when I can properly save money to get a decent multi process machine. So this isn't the kind I plan on having for a life time, though if one exists in this price range I wouldn't be apposed.

I'm just looking for advice from those who have been there with so many welders on the market what would be recommended for this purpose? (also I'm in Georgia and it's rather hard to find a used welder for a decent price no one seems to be letting em go. Even old Lincoln tombstones are going for $300)

I began at 12 or 13 with an acetylene torch. I managed a whole lot of Jeep body work, exhaust work, and when it came to heavier steel welding, I borrowed a Westinghouse 320 amp engine welder.
I'm sad to report that a welder able to do everything is expensive. Most great welders have forever before been specialized. I presently own 7, each for a different range of functions.

I feel most competent with oxy/acetylene for thin work. If it weren't for distortion, I'd use it daily.

The most cost effective I've ever bought was a Miller Dialarc 250 HF. One 40 year old welder was a great stick welder, excellent steel TIG welder, and a good aluminum TIG machine.

Best MIG I have ever owned is the Millermatic 252. The new 255 is reported to be incredible.

[Pat295]

So for stick I was looking at Lincoln Electric 240-Volt/225-Amp Stick Welder (AC 250), ESAB ES 95i DC Stick Welder, Hobart Stickmate 160i Stick Welder 500570, or Hobart Stickmate 205 AC Stick Welder without Running Gear. For Mig I was considering hobart Handler® 125 MIG Welder, Lincoln Electric Handy MIG, Hobart Handler 140 MIG Wire Welder. The biggest thing that keeps steering me closer to a Mig is the apparent increased price as well as still having to buy bottles and gas.... Unless there are cheaper option I haven't hear of or considered yet. Also I plan on installing a 220v outlet in the garage this week as I already need one to run a large saw.

[Pat295]

Another reason for me leaning towards stick is I figure I would have more function out of it from what I keep finding it would seem Mig can't handle to thick of material.

[MinnesotaDave]

It's really hard to go wrong with mig when doing body work. Great for exhaust too.

I used mig (90's Miller 210) on this project: https://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthrea...irs&highlight=

If you really like stick welding, a used stick machine and a new 120v mig welder will fix all your stuff for years...decades...

If you buy a 200 amp class mig or above, you won't use the stick nearly as much.

[monsoon-mech]

as for not welding autobody with stick may I ask why that is? It would be just the floor boards and with 1/16 6013 rods I'd imagine it would do the job nicely. But I could be mistaken

not a thing wrong with welding autobody sheet with a stick welder, its what we all used for decades BEFORE all the cheap chineese MIGs made it financially possible for about anyone to be able to buy a MIG machine.. I started out working in a body shop doing exactly that until I went into the Army, we welded everything with either oxy/acet or stick running 6013 and all the "spot welds" were actually accomplished by burning 6011 THROUGH two pieces of sheet metal and filling as ya pulled the rod back out... problem is most folks who have got into welding in the last decade or so never started out with stick so just assume its not doable.. but then we used lead for filling body seams too as bondo was still considered a shortcut for amateurs back then, and onea my 1971Blazers running a bored and stroked 454 (496 CU) still has the 2 3/4" duals under it I built 30 years ago using 6013 and a Lincoln buzz box...
for the price range your talking about MIG is going to be cost prohibitive as a decent machine will eat most of that budget and thats before ya buy a bottle, gas and consumables and that C-25 gas will be a recurring expense, get ya a decent transformer ac/dc stick welder with some amps to it so later ya can also use it as a TIG machine for that light weight stuff as budget permits and use the extra $$ to but a few harbor freight 4.25" grinders and keep a lookout for an oxy/acet setup ya can get cheap and ya'll be set for years to come add a MIG when your expenses allow it.. if ya get proficient with a stick welder and ESPECIALLY oxy/acet ya'll be welding circles around the guys who started with MIG machines any day of the week and as far as body work after ya'v learned to play with the arc to run clean beads and stringers with a stick machine on thin sheet metal ya'll have a much better feel for doing that body work in the end.. and when ya do get around to TIG if ya have mastered oxy/acet welding ya will be a much more proficient TIG welder

[Oscar]

not a thing wrong with welding autobody sheet with a stick welder, its what we all used for decades BEFORE all the cheap chineese MIGs made it financially possible for about anyone to be able to buy a MIG machine.. I started out working in a body shop doing exactly that until I went into the Army, we welded everything with either oxy/acet or stick running 6013 and all the "spot welds" were actually accomplished by burning 6011 THROUGH two pieces of sheetmetal and filling as ya pulled the rod back out... problem is most folks who have got into welding in the last decade or so never started out with stick so just assume its not doable.. but then we used lead for filling body seams too as bondo was still considered a shortcut for amateurs back then, and onea my 1971Blazers running a bored and stroked 454 (496 CU) still has the 2 3/4" duals under it I built 30 years ago using 6013 and a Lincoln buzz box..
for the price range your talking about MIG is going to be cost prohibitive as a decent machine will eat most of that budget and thats before ya buy a bottle, gas and consumables and that C-25 gas will be a recurring expense, get ya a decent transformer ac/dc stick welder with some amps to it so later ya can also use it as a TIG machine for that light weight stuff as budget permits and use the extra $$ to but a few harbour freight 4.25" grinders and keep a lookout for an oxy/acet setup ya can get cheap and ya'll be set for years to come add a MIG when your expenses allow it.. if ya get proficient with a stick welder and ESPECIALLY oxy/acet ya'll be welding circles around the guys who started with MIG machines any day of the week and as far as body work after ya'v learned to play with the arc to run clean beads and stringers with a stick machine ya'll have a much better feel for doing that body work in the end.. and when ya do get around to TIG if ya have mastered oxy/acet welding ya will be much more accomplished TIG welder

It's funny how even with all the bells and whistles of all my machines, lately I've been gravitating towards the stinger more than the wire squirter, or even the lightning torch. Much respect to everyone who had no choice but to use stick welding for years without end.

[Louie1961]

Hop over to your local Harbor freight and pick up a Vulcan Migmax 140 for $589. Those machines have gotten great reviews, it will be perfect for what you want to do.

[Welder Dave]

Most autobody welding is a series of tacks rather than continuous welds. It causes less distortion, there's less risk of burning through and can tolerate less than perfect fit up. Another huge advantage is no slag to chip between tacks and you can see the tack instantly without having to clean any slag. It's kind of like having to run a Mig root pass and stick hot pass on a thick pressure vessel before sub-arc. You burn through and it's a big mess to fix. In the case of sub-arc burn through you have to repair it to pass X-ray. There is a reason 99% of autobody is done with Mig. Tig would work but requires a considerable amount of practice and the steel would have to be absolutely clean. I think trying to do autobody with stick would be an exercise in frustration. Shielding gas will last quite awhile, just don't get the tiniest cylinder. If you want to weld thicker material then look at stick or a bigger 200+ amp Mig machine. C-25 shielding gas is less than 100% argon for Tig welding.

[Willie B]

Another reason for me leaning towards stick is I figure I would have more function out of it from what I keep finding it would seem Mig can't handle to thick of material.

MIG is very versatile. It'll weld auto body sheet well, mine easily handles 1" thick steel plate. For deep penetration, absolute certain fusion, and easy out of position, I use dual shield in the MM252. MIG is the easiest process to learn.

Oh, and you can outfit it with a spool gun for 1/8" and heavier aluminum.

[Oscar]

For deep penetration, absolute certain fusion, I use dual shield in the MM252.

What size wire and amperage/WFS do you use? Even with FCAW-G, one still has to be careful with settings.

[Pat295]

not a thing wrong with welding autobody sheet with a stick welder, its what we all used for decades BEFORE all the cheap chineese MIGs made it financially possible for about anyone to be able to buy a MIG machine.. I started out working in a body shop doing exactly that until I went into the Army, we welded everything with either oxy/acet or stick running 6013 and all the "spot welds" were actually accomplished by burning 6011 THROUGH two pieces of sheet metal and filling as ya pulled the rod back out... problem is most folks who have got into welding in the last decade or so never started out with stick so just assume its not doable.. but then we used lead for filling body seams too as bondo was still considered a shortcut for amateurs back then, and onea my 1971Blazers running a bored and stroked 454 (496 CU) still has the 2 3/4" duals under it I built 30 years ago using 6013 and a Lincoln buzz box...
for the price range your talking about MIG is going to be cost prohibitive as a decent machine will eat most of that budget and thats before ya buy a bottle, gas and consumables and that C-25 gas will be a recurring expense, get ya a decent transformer ac/dc stick welder with some amps to it so later ya can also use it as a TIG machine for that light weight stuff as budget permits and use the extra $$ to but a few harbor freight 4.25" grinders and keep a lookout for an oxy/acet setup ya can get cheap and ya'll be set for years to come add a MIG when your expenses allow it.. if ya get proficient with a stick welder and ESPECIALLY oxy/acet ya'll be welding circles around the guys who started with MIG machines any day of the week and as far as body work after ya'v learned to play with the arc to run clean beads and stringers with a stick machine on thin sheet metal ya'll have a much better feel for doing that body work in the end.. and when ya do get around to TIG if ya have mastered oxy/acet welding ya will be a much more proficient TIG welder

Yeah see that's what I figured it wasn't until I started researching welders I started to see the crazy for MIG. Honestly we didn't even learn about MIG. (I guess the teacher doesn't care for it possibly). But we spent half the time just learning how to read a welder to hone it in. (From the sound as it welds too what the finish weld looks like to decide if you were running it to hot or not hot enough). We also began by running weaves not stringers oddly enough. The teacher was afraid if we went straight to stringers we would develop bad habits and not pay enough attention to our form and what we were doing. So Honestly at this point I'm far more comfortable with stick. (though still a beginner regardless) And though I understand where everyone is coming from with the MIG being no slag and all I don't see a need to buy the Mig if the biggest advantage is just less of a learning curve cause again the only one I do know right now is stick and oxy. But I digress. I do already have a grinder as well as most shop tools just no welder.

For those suggesting Mig does anyong have a Mig/bottle combo that works good and keeps the budget under $500?

[Welder Dave]

Have to check with welding supplies in your area for package deals with a cylinder. Sometimes you have to pay more to get the right tools for the job. You're talking 18 gauge or less and you're a beginner welder. Welders with years of experience would be pulling their hair out trying to do autobody with stick. What happens if trying to use stick turns out to be an exercise in frustration? Why do that to yourself? I'd use oxy/acetylene for autobody before I'd attempt stick. Not very common anymore but maybe a welding supply would have a demo room so you could try some machines out? Of course if someone wants to post pics. of 20 gauge sheet metal welded in flat, horizontal and vertical positions (like you'd encounter in autobody) with stick I'm all eyes.

[Willie B]

What size wire and amperage/WFS do you use? Even with FCAW-G, one still has to be careful with settings.

I follow the chart on the machine & tweak it a bit if I feel the need. Miller gives several charts for various processes.

[MinnesotaDave]

For those suggesting Mig does anyong have a Mig/bottle combo that works good and keeps the budget under $500?

The Klutch machines from Northern Hydraulics and a used straight 100% co2 bottle should get you pretty darn close.

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/to...6533_200726533

Or one from Harbor Freight

https://www.harborfreight.com/MIG-14...put-64804.html

[Oscar]

I follow the chart on the machine & tweak it a bit if I feel the need. Miller gives several charts for various processes.

Have you cut-and-etched? Sometimes you'd be surprised what you find.

What setting does it give for say 1/4" steel on 045 FCAW-G? (I don't mean the arbitrary meaningless numbers, but actual WFS/V)

[Oscar]

Have to check with welding supplies in your area for package deals with a cylinder. Sometimes you have to pay more to get the right tools for the job. You're talking 18 gauge or less and you're a beginner welder. Welders with years of experience would be pulling their hair out trying to do autobody with stick. What happens if trying to use stick turns out to be an exercise in frustration? Why do that to yourself? I'd use oxy/acetylene for autobody before I'd attempt stick. Not very common anymore but maybe a welding supply would have a demo room so you could try some machines out? Of course if someone wants to post pics. of 20 gauge sheet metal welded in flat, horizontal and vertical positions (like you'd encounter in autobody) with stick I'm all eyes.

Yea it's tough for sure with stick. 20 gauge is what, .032"?

[Willie B]

Have to check with welding supplies in your area for package deals with a cylinder. Sometimes you have to pay more to get the right tools for the job. You're talking 18 gauge or less and you're a beginner welder. Welders with years of experience would be pulling their hair out trying to do autobody with stick. What happens if trying to use stick turns out to be an exercise in frustration? Why do that to yourself? I'd use oxy/acetylene for autobody before I'd attempt stick. Not very common anymore but maybe a welding supply would have a demo room so you could try some machines out? Of course if someone wants to post pics. of 20 gauge sheet metal welded in flat, horizontal and vertical positions (like you'd encounter in autobody) with stick I'm all eyes.

In youth I tried stick on 20 gauge. It was an abject failure. I even tried 1/16" 6011 & 6013. I prefer MIG for floors, and TIG for the body sections that need to look good under paint.

[Pat295]

Have to check with welding supplies in your area for package deals with a cylinder. Sometimes you have to pay more to get the right tools for the job. You're talking 18 gauge or less and you're a beginner welder. Welders with years of experience would be pulling their hair out trying to do autobody with stick. What happens if trying to use stick turns out to be an exercise in frustration? Why do that to yourself? I'd use oxy/acetylene for autobody before I'd attempt stick. Not very common anymore but maybe a welding supply would have a demo room so you could try some machines out? Of course if someone wants to post pics. of 20 gauge sheet metal welded in flat, horizontal and vertical positions (like you'd encounter in autobody) with stick I'm all eyes.

Thanks that's a good idea. Though I don't believe any of the ones in my area have that I'll definitely give it a try. And the Exhaust is 16 guage (1/16) mild steel and I have welded 1/16-1/2 material numerous times. and for the floor it's a tad bit thicker than my exhaust on this 77 nova I'm not doing crazy body work just the floor it looks to be about 14 guage if I had to guess.

The Klutch machines from Northern Hydraulics and a used straight 100% co2 bottle should get you pretty darn close.

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/to...6533_200726533

Or one from Harbor Freight

https://www.harborfreight.com/MIG-14...put-64804.html

Thanks! I appreciate that. I usually try to avoid harbor freight at all costs due to very very poor experiences with their tools as well as northern.... I usually only go there for a tool I'm okay with trashing after 1 project (though some haven't even lasted that long had a bearing puller break when just removing a simple throw-out bearing). But if it had a warranty and there are folks that have had some luck with it I'm willing to give it a try.

[MinnesotaDave]

Thanks! I appreciate that. I usually try to avoid harbor freight at all costs due to very very poor experiences with their tools as well as northern.... I usually only go there for a tool I'm okay with trashing after 1 project (though some haven't even lasted that long had a bearing puller break when just removing a simple throw-out bearing). But if it had a warranty and there are folks that have had some luck with it I'm willing to give it a try.

A few members on here have used Klutch welders and say they performed very well.

I've not used one, but based on their experiences, it wouldn't bother me to buy one if I needed something cheap

For stick welders, cheap and used is pretty nice - my Dialarc 250/250 was only $225.

My Lincoln Invertec v250-s was basically free since he included over 350 feet of 2/0 cable, in 50 foot lengths with quick connects on each end.

[monsoon-mech]

It's funny how even with all the bells and whistles of all my machines, lately I've been gravitating towards the stinger more than the wire squirter, or even the lightning torch. Much respect to everyone who had no choice but to use stick welding for years without end.

Thanks, and yea its onea the things I'm thankful for everytime the wind starts blowin most of our work is outside and about 99% is using engine drive machines as we are dealing with fabricating transport systems for the specialized loads we haul or making repairs to who knows what usually on the side of the interstate with cars blasting by at 80mph.... ya might needa be welding 2" plate or it might be 16 gauge sheet aluminum, or maybe its a busted oil cooler tube etc.. if all ya know is MIG or spool gun then your already in way over your head, the mobile shop trailers setup so we can run any process, but when its blowin 40 mph winds and the only respite from the rain is under a couple tarps strung across the trucks frame above ya.. ya will really appreciate being able to stick weld thin sheet steel or stainless etc..

if ya wanna be a truly proficient welder then its just like teaching a kid to shoot... ya don't give em the Laser sighted AR with the match barrel ya give em that .22 single shot and a brick of ammo.. if ya wanna be the best welder ya can be get as much practice as ya can with a oxy/acet both cutting AND welding, it blows our younger guys away when I'll go from cutting to gas welding plate with the cutting torch, most of em have never seen it done before, just be sure to keep your fingers UNDER the cut lever all that practice will translate directly to your ability to run a clean straight line with a plasma cutter or layin down a bead with a TIG.. and do it very fast

get good at welding sheetmetal with a stick welder and ya'll learn how to adjust the arc via your angle and distance of the rod tip so ya don't burn through .. ever and if ya do ya'll fill it almost instinctivly without breaking your stride at all so that when your using MIG or Flux Core it'll be pretty much like the machines workin by itself...

I just finished welding up a 20' long 6' tall gate for my mothers place to replace the wrought iron one I built her 20 years ago that she wants to take with her to her new house as she is selling the old place and needed a replacement rolling gate so I took my mobile shop trailer over, collected some old 1 1/2" galvanized top rail fence pipe she had laying around (15' sections unfortunatly so I hadda make sleeves to drive inside and weld extensions to get 20' top and bottom rail) wire brushed the dirt off near where the joints would be, fish mouthed the ends with 4.5 grinder and laid the pieces out on a 21' long tilt deck car hauler of mine that was left there the other day so I'd have a level working spot, rolled out the trailblazer and started welding with MIG nope didn't clean off any galvanized just turned up the volts and slowed down the feed... towards late afternoon the wind was kickin pretty hard so I unplugged the stinger lead from the feeder and switched the line over to stick and grabbed some 1/16" 6010 and finished the rest of the welds... just gotta tie some chainlink to it, knock the 900lb wrought iron gate over and winch it onto the car hauler and put up the new and Mom can have her gate... BTW if your gonna weld through galvanized... do wear a respirator it will extend your chances of wakin up later and try to keep the wind at your back

Oscar, ya've been doin ALOTA really cool stuff latelly way beyond most welders, but yea keep playin with that stick too someday ya'll be really glad ya learned those skills... especially if ya ever gotta weld up a 4x4 frame 200 miles out in the middle of nowhere with nothing but your 2 deep cycle batteries, a pancake mask and a hand full of 6011 rod... the guys that only praticed with MIG etc.. they can start hikin till they get some cellular bars then write that BIG check for the offroad recover to come rescue them

[MinnesotaDave]

It's funny how even with all the bells and whistles of all my machines, lately I've been gravitating towards the stinger more than the wire squirter, or even the lightning torch. Much respect to everyone who had no choice but to use stick welding for years without end.

Yep
https://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthrea...simple-things-)