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Thread: Geared head drill press?

  1. #101
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    Re: Geared head drill press?

    To tram the head, you need to remove the table, and indicate on the floor base. Assuming the column is square to the base on all axis.

    Name:  0645151B-11.jpg
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Size:  11.8 KB If one of these will fit your spindle, it's all you need.

    Once you've trammed the head, put the table back on, and tram the table in relation to the head.

    Or just set the head index mark to 0, and tram the table. I'd imagine the head tilt scale is accurate enough for anything you'd do with the drill.

    Best way to figure any of this out is to either buy a machining textbook from some time in the 1940's to the 1960's. Or just thumb thru a catalog, look at the pictures, and you'll see everything you need to make something work. You just put 2 and 2 together, and you'll see what any tool is meant to do.

    Don't even think of buying one of those "mill tables" that sit on the drill table. The ways are a joke At least all the stuff I've seen is. Besides......unless the spindle bearings are the type that take radial thrust, it's just gonna tear up your bearings to try to use it as a mill. Being as it has an R8 (adapter?), it might have the correct bearings for radial loads....look at your manual, get the bearing number, and look up the specs for that series bearing.

    And make sure to get an extendable magnet to see what's at the bottom of the gearbox. Or not If you do find crud, and don't feel able to do a tear down, you can get by using a turkey baster to force a stream of kerosene aimed at the bottom corners to flush a good bit of it out.

  2. #102
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    Re: Geared head drill press?

    Easiest way to tram a head, in my opinion.
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    Dave J.

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  4. #103
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    Re: Geared head drill press?

    Quote Originally Posted by MinnesotaDave View Post
    Easiest way to tram a head, in my opinion.
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    Great $99 conversation piece, paper weight, etc...………. For as many times as you're gonna tram a head in a lifetime, it's a bit of a waste. Plus, it's no good for tramming a vise, or a workpiece...……..the most common need for an indicator mount. I'd rather spend the money on tooling. IMHO

    Better investment would be a relatively cheap grinder to sharpen bits. IMHO
    Last edited by farmersammm; 05-09-2020 at 05:14 AM. Reason: spelling

  5. #104
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    Re: Geared head drill press?

    Quote Originally Posted by farmersammm View Post
    To tram the head, you need to remove the table, and indicate on the floor base. Assuming the column is square to the base on all axis.

    Name:  0645151B-11.jpg
Views: 165
Size:  11.8 KB If one of these will fit your spindle, it's all you need.

    Once you've trammed the head, put the table back on, and tram the table in relation to the head.

    Or just set the head index mark to 0, and tram the table. I'd imagine the head tilt scale is accurate enough for anything you'd do with the drill.

    Best way to figure any of this out is to either buy a machining textbook from some time in the 1940's to the 1960's. Or just thumb thru a catalog, look at the pictures, and you'll see everything you need to make something work. You just put 2 and 2 together, and you'll see what any tool is meant to do.

    Don't even think of buying one of those "mill tables" that sit on the drill table. The ways are a joke At least all the stuff I've seen is. Besides...…...unless the spindle bearings are the type that take radial thrust, it's just gonna tear up your bearings to try to use it as a mill. Being as it has an R8 (adapter?), it might have the correct bearings for radial loads...…….look at your manual, get the bearing number, and look up the specs for that series bearing.

    And make sure to get an extendable magnet to see what's at the bottom of the gearbox. Or not If you do find crud, and don't feel able to do a tear down, you can get by using a turkey baster to force a stream of kerosene aimed at the bottom corners to flush a good bit of it out.
    It has a standard mill setup for the quill. They make their geared mills on the same platform.

    Even with that gauge, how would I tram the head to the floor base? It is nowhere near being able to go that low.
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  6. #105
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    Re: Geared head drill press?

    The only reason you would need to tram the base is if you were to want to mill something mounted to it witch you will never do. Forget about it it is plenty close enough for drilling a hole by just using a 2' carpenters square to square the spindle head to the base if and when that time ever comes.

    for the table , since you have 2 items that tilt ( spindle and table) I would plumb the column with a precision level. then use a precision level to level the table. Finally I would tram the spindle to the table. Keep in mind that for many jobs it would not need to be perfect as in .000" in 4 directions. If it was within .002" per foot you could do most small milling jobs. Job you would want .000" would be like for using a boring head , milling a surface more than a few inches long things like that. Keep in mind that most milling tables will have no more than 12" of travel in the longest direction so if you need to mill anything longer than that the piece would need to be partially milled and then repositioned to finish milling. In a case like that you definatly want the head tramed to .000" or you will have a step where the piece was repositioned.

    I doubt you will get into any real precision milling. other than maybe using a boring head but that is a different use too that you may never need or do.

    If you were to level the base just before you were going to want to mill something by using a level like a starrette 98 . Then level the table the same way , with the same level . Finally tram the head to the table and get it within .001 all the way around you could mill most common jobs .

    Each line on a 12" 98 level vile is .005" per foot so if you leveled it to the point where it was inperceptable with the vile on a 98 the surface would be within .001" per foot.

    FYI; Alway read a level in both directions ( turning it 180 degrees ). If it reads different form one direction to the other the level needs adjusting. This is very important when using a precision level especially.
    Last edited by thegary; 05-09-2020 at 10:31 AM.

  7. #106
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    Re: Geared head drill press?

    Quote Originally Posted by thegary View Post
    The only reason you would need to tram the base is if you were to want to mill something mounted to it witch you will never do. Forget about it it is plenty close enough for drilling a hole by just using a 2' carpenters square to square the spindle head to the base if and when that time ever comes.

    for the table , since you have 2 items that tilt ( spindle and table) I would plumb the column with a precision level. then use a precision level to level the table. Finally I would tram the spindle to the table. Keep in mind that for many jobs it would not need to be perfect as in .000" in 4 directions. If it was within .002" per foot you could do most small milling jobs. Job you would want .000" would be like for using a boring head , milling a surface more than a few inches long things like that. Keep in mind that most milling tables will have no more than 12" of travel in the longest direction so if you need to mill anything longer than that the piece would need to be partially milled and then repositioned to finish milling. In a case like that you definatly want the head tramed to .000" or you will have a step where the piece was repositioned.

    I doubt you will get into any real precision milling. other than maybe using a boring head but that is a different use too that you may never need or do.

    If you were to level the base just before you were going to want to mill something by using a level like a starrette 98 . Then level the table the same way , with the same level . Finally tram the head to the table and get it within .001 all the way around you could mill most common jobs .

    Each line on a 12" 98 level vile is .005" per foot so if you leveled it to the point where it was inperceptable with the vile on a 98 the surface would be within .001" per foot.

    FYI; Alway read a level in both directions ( turning it 180 degrees ). If it reads different form one direction to the other the level needs adjusting. This is very important when using a precision level especially.
    I will not need to make any real precise parts but Id like to try milling a slot into something or facing things. Im not looking for tool and die making precision by any means.

    As far as using a level on the head, do i want to level it off of the quill or the headstock?

    Also, if the table is dialed in with a level, how do you tram an XY table? Shims or adjust the table.

    The mount for the table is built like a tank my initial assumption ordering was it wouldnt be rigid enough but that isnt the case.

    Getting $300 for my old drill press which would cover the cost of the grizzly 18 XY table and a shars mill vise.
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  8. #107
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    Re: Geared head drill press?

    Quote Originally Posted by BrooklynBravest View Post
    I will not need to make any real precise parts but Id like to try milling a slot into something or facing things. Im not looking for tool and die making precision by any means.

    As far as using a level on the head, do i want to level it off of the quill or the headstock?

    Also, if the table is dialed in with a level, how do you tram an XY table? Shims or adjust the table.

    The mount for the table is built like a tank my initial assumption ordering was it wouldnt be rigid enough but that isnt the case.

    Getting $300 for my old drill press which would cover the cost of the grizzly 18 XY table and a shars mill vise.
    You will get into money real fast using it as a mill. The table and the vise are just the beginning . You will need milling cutters/ fly cutters, indicator, precision level indicator holder for tramming .

    You need to reread my post , most of your questions are answered there. As far as the x/y table. If the drill press table is level and the quill head is dialed into( trammed) the drill press table the x/y table should be good. It would not hurt to check it the first time by tramming it with the quill.

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  10. #108
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    Re: Geared head drill press?

    Quote Originally Posted by BrooklynBravest View Post
    I will not need to make any real precise parts but I’d like to try milling a slot into something or facing things. I’m not looking for tool and die making precision by any means.

    As far as using a level on the head, do i want to level it off of the quill or the headstock?

    Also, if the table is dialed in with a level, how do you tram an XY table? Shims or adjust the table.

    The mount for the table is built like a tank my initial assumption ordering was it wouldn’t be rigid enough but that isn’t the case.

    Getting $300 for my old drill press which would cover the cost of the grizzly 18” XY table and a shars mill vise.
    If you use a device like Dave mentions above with the two dial indicators, you can tram the table or milling table in the left/right direction off the quill. Insert that device into a collet. Lower the quill until both needles move a bit. Now you can either adjust the headstock or table left or right until the needles read the same. Now lower the quill through the trammels range of motion and the needles should not move. If you an get the dual indicator so it reads as close to the same as possible, you will be good. Even if you are off by .001 to .0005 or so over 6 inches, that is plenty good.

    Your drill head does not nod forward and back like a mill, so you are limited on what you can do to adjust it if is out. If you use the same dual indicator as above, but then rotate the quill by hand 90 degrees, you will know if the table is not aligned front to back.

    As long as you don't sling hundred pound objects onto the table on a regular basis and make sure the table locks are tight, you should be fine.
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  11. #109
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    Re: Geared head drill press?

    Quote Originally Posted by thegary View Post
    You will get into money real fast using it as a mill. The table and the vise are just the beginning . You will need milling cutters/ fly cutters, indicator, precision level indicator holder for tramming .

    You need to reread my post , most of your questions are answered there. As far as the x/y table. If the drill press table is level and the quill head is dialed into( trammed) the drill press table the x/y table should be good. It would not hurt to check it the first time by tramming it with the quill.
    Gary is 100% correct on the expenses. I received my Bridgeport milling machine for free. I have spent probably $3,500 or more just in a VFD, rotary tables, vise, cutters, etc,
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  12. #110
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    Re: Geared head drill press?

    Quote Originally Posted by psacustomcreations View Post
    Gary is 100% correct on the expenses. I received my Bridgeport milling machine for free. I have spent probably $3,500 or more just in a VFD, rotary tables, vise, cutters, etc,
    I used to have a lathe, it was very similar the expenses you don’t realize.

    If I just want to mill basic slots or face things without extreme precision, do you guys feel pretty confident I can pull it off with this table and a vise?

    https://www.grizzly.com/products/Gri...SABEgKD8PD_BwE

    Did some drilling today also. Not changing belts is a far better way to live...
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    Re: Geared head drill press?

    Quote Originally Posted by BrooklynBravest View Post
    I used to have a lathe, it was very similar the expenses you don’t realize.

    If I just want to mill basic slots or face things without extreme precision, do you guys feel pretty confident I can pull it off with this table and a vise?

    https://www.grizzly.com/products/Gri...SABEgKD8PD_BwE

    Did some drilling today also. Not changing belts is a far better way to live...
    Yes but do not get that table. It has vernier scales not micrometer dials. Make sure you get one with dials that each increment is .001 or .002. If grizzly doesn't have one there are a lot of different brands. Look on Ebay and you will see there are a lot of them.

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    Geared head drill press?

    Quote Originally Posted by psacustomcreations View Post
    Gary is 100% correct on the expenses. I received my Bridgeport milling machine for free. I have spent probably $3,500 or more just in a VFD, rotary tables, vise, cutters, etc,
    I have always maintained that if a buyer committed to and continued to buy a certain amount of tooling from a vendor the machine should be provided free.
    :

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  16. #113
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    Re: Geared head drill press?

    Quote Originally Posted by thegary View Post
    Yes but do not get that table. It has vernier scales not micrometer dials. Make sure you get one with dials that each increment is .001 or .002. If grizzly doesn't have one there are a lot of different brands. Look on Ebay and you will see there are a lot of them.
    Apologies im a bit confused on that one.

    The lathe I previously had, used the same dial type as does the fine downfeed on the drill.

    All I see on the description is vernier .001 increments?
    Last edited by BrooklynBravest; 05-09-2020 at 08:33 PM.
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    Re: Geared head drill press?

    Quote Originally Posted by psacustomcreations View Post
    If you use a device like Dave mentions above with the two dial indicators, you can tram the table or milling table in the left/right direction off the quill. Insert that device into a collet. Lower the quill until both needles move a bit. Now you can either adjust the headstock or table left or right until the needles read the same. Now lower the quill through the trammels range of motion and the needles should not move. If you an get the dual indicator so it reads as close to the same as possible, you will be good. Even if you are off by .001 to .0005 or so over 6 inches, that is plenty good.

    Your drill head does not nod forward and back like a mill, so you are limited on what you can do to adjust it if is out. If you use the same dual indicator as above, but then rotate the quill by hand 90 degrees, you will know if the table is not aligned front to back.

    As long as you don't sling hundred pound objects onto the table on a regular basis and make sure the table locks are tight, you should be fine.
    If you can't sweep an indicator, you shouldn't be on a mill That thing is a 99 dollar paper weight

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    Re: Geared head drill press?

    Quote Originally Posted by BrooklynBravest View Post
    Apologies im a bit confused on that one.

    The lathe I previously had, used the same dial type as does the fine downfeed on the drill.

    All I see on the description is vernier .001 increments?
    Yes a vernier is a scale that is riveted to the base with a line that moves with the table. The scale is graduated in .100, .025 , .001 increments kind of like a regular scale divided in fractions of an inch. You read the scale at the line that moves with the table. They work but are hard to read. The dial is much better with each 360 rotation being .100 and the marks on the dials being either .001 or .002 . Of course .001 increments are better than .002" .

    Grizzly makes a smaller table that has dials but I think an 18" table would be as small as I would want to go. I have seen several x/y tables that have micrometer dials. That is what I would look for. I do not remember prices but the nicer tables I believe are 400-$500 .

    For the kind of stuff you make your plasma table cuts slots that are accurate enough . The grizzly x/y table you are looking at will do the job but If you grow and move to a larger shop you will replace it with something much better . Its your call.

    Just to be sure what you are getting I would call Grizzly support and ask them about the dials on that table. If the dial are graduated in .001 or .002 then your good but I have never seen that setup called vernier.
    Last edited by thegary; 05-10-2020 at 12:20 PM.

  19. #116
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    Re: Geared head drill press?

    Quote Originally Posted by farmersammm View Post
    If you can't sweep an indicator, you shouldn't be on a mill That thing is a 99 dollar paper weight
    For some people it would be excellent, for others it's not. That's why there are choices.

    You should probably make a 55 post thread on how to tram the head with a regular indicator - after reading it, more people would buy the dual head
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    Re: Geared head drill press?

    Quote Originally Posted by MinnesotaDave View Post
    For some people it would be excellent, for others it's not. That's why there are choices.

    You should probably make a 55 post thread on how to tram the head with a regular indicator - after reading it, more people would buy the dual head
    Nailed it 👌

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    Re: Geared head drill press?

    I don't believe in getting someone to spend money for something of limited value (shrug). Not my style. I may be a grouch, but I'm pretty well meaning.

    Can't do this with a paper weight.

    Name:  broken wheel73.jpg
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Size:  132.1 KB One might wanna determine whether his/her rotary table is centered with the spindle.

    Name:  tramming2.JPG
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Size:  222.1 KB Or, one might want to determine if that piece of stock is REALLY square with the spindle (kind of a handy thing to know when you're drilling a hole that has to be straight....in the real world)

    I gots more, but take a while to find the pics

    Simply put....it's better to have a multi function, though not quite as glitzy, tool in the drawer. One ya's gonna use many times over.

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    Re: Geared head drill press?

    Found some!

    Tramming your vise. EDIT: This was actually pre-setup for cutting a key slot, but it's the same setup for tramming a vise. BTW, if you are good at trig, or something like that, you can set a vise, or anything, by checking the "rise" over a given distance which matches the expected "rise" for a given angle. You will know the vise, or workpiece, is at the desired angle by watching indicator movement over the travel distance.

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    Let's say you need to cut a Woodruff key slot on the tapered end of a shaft. The cutter has to come in from a 90* angle. It's handy to know that the tapered surface is actually parallel to the spindle.

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    So, dear readers, I'm not tryin' to blow smoke outta my butt. I'm just sayin' that multi function tools are...…….well...……..multifunction. FOR ABOUT TWENTY BUCKS
    Last edited by farmersammm; 05-10-2020 at 02:50 PM. Reason: added a bit of stuff to paragraph 2

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    Re: Geared head drill press?

    Farmersam I have a setup just like yours altho I cheapened out and did not get an Interapid indicator. Mine is an inexpensive knock off of one. It works great as you have shown. About 45 years ago I worked at a Pattern shop in chicago . The Patternmakers all had hand made copies of that clamp system. I did not see them mass produced until quite a few years later. In fact I think I have a hand made one laying around that I purchased from a patternmaker that was selling them.

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    Re: Geared head drill press?

    slotted 3/8 thick steel channel

    a die fits the slots, alignment pin

    slot is 3/8 wide, 1/8 deep

    bench mill used

    back side mig welded 1/8 spacer plate.... can see burn through spot in slot


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    Charl

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    Re: Geared head drill press?

    Ok so it’s apparent it would be good to have a test dial indicator for this regardless.

    So could anyone recommend where to purchase the quill mount one?

    As simple to use as the dual one looks, i think the other style has more applications overall.
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    Re: Geared head drill press?

    Quote Originally Posted by BrooklynBravest View Post
    Ok so it’s apparent it would be good to have a test dial indicator for this regardless.

    So could anyone recommend where to purchase the quill mount one?

    As simple to use as the dual one looks, i think the other style has more applications overall.
    It is more versatile but is also going to cost more. If I ran a mill every day I would have one of the dual dial setups but for versatility the other one is good. If you were to purchase an Interapid indicator it alone would be $300 or more. The clamp system shown is probably $75 or so. They make knock offs of the interapid design that you can buy for a little over $100. I am going from memory and purchased mine 6 or 7 years ago so it might be more now. I know Enco used to sell all 3 items but they are gone now. I am sure an internet search could find them though.

    You only need an indicator setup if you are going to use it as a mill. Used as a drill press a rod and a precision square is all you need.
    Last edited by thegary; 05-10-2020 at 07:25 PM.

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    Re: Geared head drill press?

    Quote Originally Posted by thegary View Post
    It is more versatile but is also going to cost more. If I ran a mill every day I would have one of the dual dial setups but for versatility the other one is good. If you were to purchase an Interapid indicator it alone would be $300 or more. The clamp system shown is probably $75 or so. They make knock offs of the interapid design that you can buy for a little over $100. I am going from memory and purchased mine 6 or 7 years ago so it might be more now. I know Enco used to sell all 3 items but they are gone now. I am sure an internet search could find them though.
    You only need an indicator setup if you are going to use it as a mill. Used as a drill press a rod and a precision square is all you need.
    Shars has a clamp style or shank style holder for $50 and test dial indicator for another $30ish.

    Ive had good luck with their stuff in the past.

    Would you go with the shank style in a collet or the quill clamp?


    I did get the collet set by the way, as you said its a home run for the Tapmatic.
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    Re: Geared head drill press?

    Quote Originally Posted by BrooklynBravest View Post
    Shars has a clamp style or shank style holder for $50 and test dial indicator for another $30ish.

    I’ve had good luck with their stuff in the past.

    Would you go with the shank style in a collet or the quill clamp?


    I did get the collet set by the way, as you said it’s a home run for the Tapmatic.
    I have some shars stuff. I have no complaints with the stuff for what I paid. There are pros and cons to both styles of indicator clamps. I guess if it were mine and the quill clamp style would fit my quill I would go with it. There are indicators and there are indicators. The style Farmersam shows is probably the most versatile style made. It was patented by Interapid many decades ago. Now that the patent is finished there are several copies of it out. They make them with different amounts of indicator travel. Get one with at least .030 travel in both directions the more the better to a point.

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