On Off switch for a rotary phase converter

[psacustomcreations]

I have this 3hp Phase -A-Matic RPC I use to run my bigger DoAll upright band saw.

For now I just plug it into my double headed 50 amp extension cord. Yes, I need to clean that up.

I have it set up so I have the welder plugged in one side of the cord and RPC in the other. I want to add a switch so the RPC is not running unless I turn it on.
The coiled up cable in front of the RPC in the last pic gets plugged into the extension cord.

Eventually I want to rewire part of my panel and just run the RPC straight from the panel. Even if I do that, I dont think it is a good idea to use the breaker as an on/off switch.
Any ideas on adding a switch?


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[Smason]

I've been using the breaker for years without any problems.

[psacustomcreations]

I've been using the breaker for years without any problems.

OK. Thanks. I thought that was frowned upon, but if it works, that works for me.

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[Oscar]

Great question and answer, as I'm about to pick up a RPC, but an order of magnitude larger in HP.

[Meltedmetal]

Don't think breakers are intended to be used as on/off switches but whatever. I use fused safety switches like this :
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D...1NCP/100164967
Put the proper size fuses in it up to 30 amps. Or go to a larger switch if needed.

[John T]

I’ve got this one for sale if it works for you.

Brand new.



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[Willie B]

The inspector ready answer includes a manual disconnect within sight or a locking disconnect if out of sight.

A RPC is a motor. An inspector would require a motor control with overload protection.

Those in private shops push back at the cost of a proper motor control. It is NOT cheap.

Most commonly, we are talking about a magnetic contactor with integral overload protection.

Forever this includes "Heaters" Thermal overload units ordered to match your RPC nameplate. More recently, current transformer units are available. You can adjust amperage.

These will need a set of control contacts to operate.

[Willie B]

I’ve got this one for sale if it works for you.

Brand new.



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I wish you had it in 200 amp.

[Smason]

I never said it was the right way, just that I haven't had any problems. I have a home shop not a commercial shop.

[TraditionalToolworks]

Yes, I need to clean that up.

'ya think?

I have it set up so I have the welder plugged in one side of the cord and RPC in the other. I want to add a switch so the RPC is not running unless I turn it on.
The coiled up cable in front of the RPC in the last pic gets plugged into the extension cord.

CURRENTLY I want to rewire part of my panel and just run the RPC straight from the panel.

There I fixed it for you.

[psacustomcreations]

'ya think?







There I fixed it for you.

So you have nothing to add? Thanks.

[psacustomcreations]

I’ve got this one for sale if it works for you.

Brand new.



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Thanks. Tomorrow I will go out to the shop and check if that will fit my panel.

[psacustomcreations]

The inspector ready answer includes a manual disconnect within sight or a locking disconnect if out of sight.

A RPC is a motor. An inspector would require a motor control with overload protection.

Those in private shops push back at the cost of a proper motor control. It is NOT cheap.

Most commonly, we are talking about a magnetic contactor with integral overload protection.

Forever this includes "Heaters" Thermal overload units ordered to match your RPC nameplate. More recently, current transformer units are available. You can adjust amperage.

These will need a set of control contacts to operate.

Thanks Willie.


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[Willie B]

Thanks Willie.


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I'll put together a package at cost, or part numbers. I'll admit it is pretty rare for people able to fly under the radar to consent to the cost. Most make do switching a breaker Or Ebay knife switch Or a receptacle & cord, replacing occasionally. The overload protection people sometimes live without.

A bootleg install uses a $40.00 Definite purpose contactor 3 pole, together with a momentary push button station. I'll provide a diagram if you care. This works well, but offers no overload protection.

A major hazard is loss of limbs. A machine tripps a breaker, then restarts when power is restored might rip off an arm, or head. Magnetic contactor forces you to intentionally restart.

latest editions of NEC require GFCI protection if plug connected.

[TraditionalToolworks]

So you have nothing to add? Thanks.

No, there was a hidden message there, but in case you missed it, let me spell it out.

Don't do what you planned to do, it doesn't sound safe.

You're current setup doesn't even look safe with wires hanging out of the outlet you have laying on the floor.

You can do what you like, it's your shop. I wouldn't have that mess in my shop and don't recommend you do either.

[psacustomcreations]

I'll put together a package at cost, or part numbers. I'll admit it is pretty rare for people able to fly under the radar to consent to the cost. Most make do switching a breaker Or Ebay knife switch Or a receptacle & cord, replacing occasionally. The overload protection people sometimes live without.

A bootleg install uses a $40.00 Definite purpose contactor 3 pole, together with a momentary push button station. I'll provide a diagram if you care. This works well, but offers no overload protection.

A major hazard is loss of limbs. A machine tripps a breaker, then restarts when power is restored might rip off an arm, or head. Magnetic contactor forces you to intentionally restart.

latest editions of NEC require GFCI protection if plug connected.

That help would be appreciated.
I only use the RPC for that saw for now.
My typical procedure today was turn off the breaker, plug in the RPC, turn on the breaker and that starts the RPC.
Turn on saw, cut out part, turn off breaker, unplug RPC. Turn on breaker, tack weld or weld part.
Repeat as necessary.
Since the parts I am cutting are random shapes for an art project, they all cant be cut at once until the previous piece is in place and I see how it looks.
I have my Bridgeport hooked up to a VFD and bought the RPC for this saw and some future tools I might get.


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[mla2ofus]

If you go the route Willieb laid out you can mount the start stop buttons for the RPC right by start stop switch for the saw. When you later get more machines to run off the RPC you can have the start stop buttons on a cord so you can move it to whichever machine you want to use. Like willie said it will be expensive but will last a long time.
Mike

[danielplace]

I'll put together a package at cost, or part numbers. I'll admit it is pretty rare for people able to fly under the radar to consent to the cost. Most make do switching a breaker Or Ebay knife switch Or a receptacle & cord, replacing occasionally. The overload protection people sometimes live without.

A bootleg install uses a $40.00 Definite purpose contactor 3 pole, together with a momentary push button station. I'll provide a diagram if you care. This works well, but offers no overload protection.

A major hazard is loss of limbs. A machine tripps a breaker, then restarts when power is restored might rip off an arm, or head. Magnetic contactor forces you to intentionally restart.

latest editions of NEC require GFCI protection if plug connected.

3 pole ?
It is single phase feed to rpc.

[psacustomcreations]

If you go the route Willieb laid out you can mount the start stop buttons for the RPC right by start stop switch for the saw. When you later get more machines to run off the RPC you can have the start stop buttons on a cord so you can move it to whichever machine you want to use. Like willie said it will be expensive but will last a long time.
Mike

That sounds like it would be a great way to go. Thanks

[Willie B]

3 pole ?
It is single phase feed to rpc.

Need an extra set of contacts for three conductor control & latching.

[danielplace]

Need an extra set of contacts for three conductor control & latching.

No not really. It is even easier without trying to wire through a separate pole for no reason.

A simple single phase two pole start/stop latching setup on a contactor has no need for another pole for anything.

You use one of the ones your already using to hold the coil in.

Your not using a transformer and low voltage controls. The coil voltage is high voltage same as you are using so you don't need a separate pole for anything.

Pretty easy to wire using the existing contacts of a two pole contactor. 3 pole is waste of money to buy when you really only need a two pole.

[psacustomcreations]

Great question and answer, as I'm about to pick up a RPC, but an order of magnitude larger in HP.

Oscar,
Once you get yours set up, can post a pic of what you did?
Even if it is larger, I still would like to see it to learn.

[Oscar]

Oscar,
Once you get yours set up, can post a pic of what you did?
Even if it is larger, I still would like to see it to learn.

My stuff isn't code compliant though.

No not really. It is even easier without trying to wire through a separate pole for no reason.

A simple single phase two pole start/stop latching setup on a contactor has no need for another pole for anything.

You use one of the ones your already using to hold the coil in.

Your not using a transformer and low voltage controls. The coil voltage is high voltage same as you are using so you don't need a separate pole for anything.

Pretty easy to wire using the existing contacts of a two pole contactor. 3 pole is waste of money to buy when you really only need a two pole.

Daniel, mind if I ask you some questions regarding my RPC when it gets here? I've done my research but I have some lingering inquiries. It's a Southern Phase Converters unit. It's new but I bought it 2nd hand.

[psacustomcreations]

My stuff isn't code compliant though.

Have you seen what I make and the comment from Traditional??

I try to do things by code if I can or know how, but am limited by what I know and what I am willing/can afford to pay someone.

[Oscar]

Have you seen what I make and the comment from Traditional??

I try to do things by code if I can or know how, but am limited by what I know and what I am willing/can afford to pay someone.

I hear ya, lol. I'll be glad to share how I end up setting mine up. From the looks of the panel that comes with the system, mine has start/stop buttons so it looks like it will be different from the get-go. I actually like your setup because it looks very portable!

How about something like this for $16:

https://www.amazon.com/Corporation-D...3&s=hi&sr=1-16

With a 60A breaker included, it sure seems heavy duty enough for your RPC.