Shielding gas for first time.

[ntjones]

Hey, I’m about to go and get set up for some mig welding. I’ve had a welder for a couple of years but have been running flux core the whole time. I’m wanting to get some gas for solid wire but I don’t know where to start. Should I get 100% co2 or 75%25% mix? Also should I buy a bottle or rent? How much to fill a bottle each time? I live in Alabama and have a few suppliers near by if any of that is relevant. Lol. Any suggestions or advice would be a huge help. Thanks.


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[farmersammm]

I've been using 75/25 since I first got a wire welder about 15yrs ago...……..THE SAME BOTTLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I mostly use flux core self shielding wire. Occasionally solid MIG wire if it's something paper thin. The 75/25 seems to work nicely when I do use it.

[farmersammm]

Definitely BUY the bottle. You'd be amazed at how fast the years go by, and the rent paid mounts up. If a bottle has a good valve, it will stay fully charged for years.

[ntjones]

About how much does it cost for a bottle and how much to refill. I’ve heard that some suppliers don’t want to do business with you unless you rent from them.


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[psacustomcreations]

Do some research first. Stop by the welding supply stores and talk to them in person to see if they will swap out customer owned cylinders. Some places like Airgas won't do that.

Once you find a place that seems good to work with, open up a cash account with them.

Look on Craiglist and Facebook marketplace for cylinders. If you go to check out the cylinders, look for a name stamped into the neck ring. If it is blank, buy it. If it has a name, check to see if the company is still in business. If it is out of business, you can usually buy the cylinder and get it tested and refilled or swapped at the place you made your account. Thats why you talk to them first.

In regards to size of cylinder, the bigger the cylinder, the cheaper the cost per unit of gas. If you get an 80 cubic foot tank it might cost $60 to fill it. If you get a 200 cubic foot tank it might only cost $80 to fill it.

At the shop I use for my home business and for where I work, they charge $65 a year to rent cylinders. The advantage is you can roll up and drop off the empty, grab a full one, pay and be on your way. If it is a customer owned tank, some places still do that. My place requires me to drop off the tank empty one week and pick it up full the next. That is why I have multiple cylinders.

An easy gas to start MIG welding with is 75/25. 100% CO2 can be used, but it takes more practice to dial in the setting to reduce the spatter.

[ntjones]

Thanks. That helps me with an idea of what I’m getting into. I’m a little scared to get into some that will be expensive. I only weld a little bit on the weekends so a bottle should last a while I hope.


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[Oscar]

Or it could just cost $30 to fill a 125 ft³ tank. Cost varies a lot by location.

Find out your local prices, then enter them in this gas costs survey:

You can also look at responses from other people:

►The definitive welding gas costs thread◄


Always talk to the gas supply place. If they accept customer owned bottles with names on the neckring, those are usually the best to deal with. That way you can hopefully score used bottles on craigslist for around $100-$120 for a 125 ft³. Just have to make sure they have current hydrotest marking. If they are out of hydrotest, they migh still accept them if they are in good condition, you just have to pay the hydrotest fee. Around here that is $15 hydrotest fee per tank. Ask your places all these questions.

CO2 is definintely cheaper per ft³, but C25 lets you get nicer welds and just slighly easier to dial in, with less spatter.

[ntjones]

Or it could just cost $30 to fill a 125 ft³ tank. Cost varies a lot by location.

Find out your local prices, then enter them in this gas costs survey:

You can also look at responses from other people:

►The definitive welding gas costs thread◄

Oh thanks man. I’ll have to check with the stores around here and report back.


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[Louie1961]

Personally I would go find a used 20 lb CO2 cylinder on Craig's List or something similar. You can usually find them for between $50-$100. They don't have to look pretty as most places just swap them out for you. A 20lb CO2 cylinder is dirt cheap to fill and equates to 178 cu feet of shielding gas. It really is the cheapest way to start off, and you can always go to C25 gas later. Most people can get by quite well with 100% CO2

[ntjones]

Personally I would go find a used 20 lb CO2 cylinder on Craig's List or something similar. You can usually find them for between $50-$100. They don't have to look pretty as most places just swap them out for you. A 20lb CO2 cylinder is dirt cheap to fill and equates to 178 cu feet of shielding gas. It really is the cheapest way to start off, and you can always go to C25 gas later. Most people can get by quite well with 100% CO2

I may try that if I can find one. I heard that the co2 was really cheap. I’ve doing ok with flux core s the co2 should be a huge upgrade for me.


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[Willie B]

Boy, I used 3 330 Cubic Foot bottles first year, two a year since. 75/25

TIG it was 4 330 bottles first year, two a year since.

[ntjones]

Boy, I used 3 330 Cubic Foot bottles first year, two a year since. 75/25

TIG it was 4 330 bottles first year, two a year since.

How much do you weld? Is that just on weekend projects?


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[Louie1961]

Yeah, a place near me does refills for $11. This is the type of tank I am talking about. It is smaller than an 80 cu foot tank, lighter too, and hold twice as much gas.

https://allentown.craigslist.org/tls...121909386.html

[Oscar]

CO2 is dirt cheap indeed. Around here a 20lb tank is about $20 to exchange. Mostly the same on the gas costs response spreadsheet, so I suspect the average is likely $20 with a few places here and there a little less. Even at $20, that only 11¢ per ft³ for CO2, where as C25 is roughly 25¢ -28¢ per ft³

[OPUS FERRO]

ntjones

I've read the thread - I build on other's suggestions . . .

I’ve . . . been running flux core the whole time -

I’m wanting to get some gas for solid wire but I don’t know
where to start . . . 100% co2 . . . 75%25% mix?

. . . should I buy a bottle or rent . . .

I . . . have a few suppliers near by . . . Any suggestions . . .

Innershield weld wire behaves like the E60XX's stick electrodes.
Both - Hardwire and Dualshield are unique unto themselves.

Hardwire will run on both gases - CO2 is cheap, and runs hotter,
C/25 is more expensive - but greatly reduces spatter . . .

Buy a real bottle - not a CO2 beverage bottle [reason forthwith*].

Dualshield weld wire looks like 'Jet Rod' [E7024] and nothing runs
better vertical-up. Check manufactures gas specs. when you buy
wire - some will work on both gases - others require C25 only.

Not all suppliers are created equal - via your network - seek out,
and contact everyone you consider welding knowledgeable - ask
'which and why' they prefer one supplier over another . . . it will
spare you pain -

* This why you buy a real bottle - and select 'a better' supplier.

My LWS will exchange my bottle [size] for any gas I want . . .
OX, CO2, C25, Argon, Tri-Gas, Nit . . . without question - this is
superior service - and is just 'one key' of their success . . .

Any supplier that will not do this - is jerking you around - for more
money . . . the computer doesn't care - it's all in their finger-tips.

hth


Opus



ps -

Per Pre Post - 'Open an Account . . .'


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[Welder Dave]

CO2 is a liquid in the cylinder so is heavier to handle. If you do a bunch of welding the regulator/flowmeter can freeze. C-25 is more expensive but you'd probably like it better. Be careful if you buy a CO2 cylinder you don't get a beverage cylinder with a dip tube to draw liquid. CO2 is similar to propane in that they are both in liquid form in the cylinder and basically boiling off the gas.

[ntjones]

Yeah, a place near me does refills for $11. This is the type of tank I am talking about. It is smaller than an 80 cu foot tank, lighter too, and hold twice as much gas.

https://allentown.craigslist.org/tls...121909386.html

Yeah I wish I could find one like that even if I buy a bigger one that would be nice to have. I didn’t know you could put welding gauges on that.


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[Rangerhgm]

I use straight CO2 and am very pleased with the results.

I have a 20lb tank I get filled at a fire extinguisher service center for $20. I get 10-11 hours of welding/tank

I purchased the tank here: https://gascylindersource.com/shop/c...linder-handle/

[Willie B]

How much do you weld? Is that just on weekend projects?


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It seems there are several projects a year. Rebuild a backhoe, or loader bucket, build a thumb from scratch, frequent lesser projects. My son often has a major project ongoing, Dump trailer, I've built two truck dump bodies from scratch. MIG uses more gas than TIG.

I guess if I checked the records, it doesn't work out to quite 2 a year. Last couple years TIG argon use is down. TIG for me can be compared to learning to golf. As you progress in skill, there is still plenty of room for improvement. The first few years I found a lifetime of projects to build.

[ntjones]

I use straight CO2 and am very pleased with the results.

I have a 20lb tank I get filled at a fire extinguisher service center for $20. I get 10-11 hours of welding/tank

I purchased the tank here: https://gascylindersource.com/shop/c...linder-handle/

And the gauges just screw right into it or do you have to have an adapter?


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[ntjones]

It seems there are several projects a year. Rebuild a backhoe, or loader bucket, build a thumb from scratch, frequent lesser projects. My son often has a major project ongoing, Dump trailer, I've built two truck dump bodies from scratch. MIG uses more gas than TIG.

I guess if I checked the records, it doesn't work out to quite 2 a year. Last couple years TIG argon use is down. TIG for me can be compared to learning to golf. As you progress in skill, there is still plenty of room for improvement. The first few years I found a lifetime of projects to build.

Oh ok. That’s a lot of welding compared to what I do. That should last me a long time.


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[Louie1961]

You usually need an adapter. they are pretty cheap.

https://www.amazon.com/CGA-320-CGA-5...s%2C172&sr=8-6

[Rondo]

And the gauges just screw right into it or do you have to have an adapter?


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If you have a welding regulator now, It's likely an inert CGA 580 thread. In that case you would need an adapter like a Western 806 or buy a CO2 reg that reads in CFH or change the nut and nipple to CGA 320 which is a Western CO2 and CO3. Make sure when you get the regulator set up that you have the disc gasket that goes inn the nut. ( Many of the new inverters are designed on CO2 and run it well ) Good Luck !

[Louie1961]

some examples of MIG welding with CO2

[Louie1961]

Example 2