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Thread: G-213 with a TJD Wisconsin

  1. #1
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    G-213 with a TJD Wisconsin

    Anyone mess with a G-213 welder with a locked up engine? I pretty much have a basket case project, and tearing into this welder has taught me a few things. Being that I have removed the generator housing and the armature, I kinda of run into a problem as far as removing the coupling from the crankshaft because the set screws are not very easy to get to through either of the small round holes, not a good design for repair. I have used a pipe wrench on the hand crank end of the crankshaft being careful not to break it off while using heat and PB blaster on top of the pistons. I'm thinking it could also have spun a bearing and locked it it up to, What does everyone think? Is this thing worth messing with in this condition?
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    Re: G-213 with a TJD Wisconsin

    Pull the head off so you can see what condition the bores/pistons are in. If there's a lot of rust the bores will probably be pitted bad. Mix a 50/50 of acetone and ATF and pour a quantity in the cylinders and let it soak overnite. Put a pair of curved jaw Visegrips firmly on the crankshaft so you don't do an excess of scarring on it and try rocking it back and forth to see if it will free up. Patience is a virtue for this. keep adding the mix and hope for the best.
    Mike
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    Re: G-213 with a TJD Wisconsin

    It's worth digging in to it but Wisconsin parts are expensive. Pull the head off being careful not break the bolts and pour acetone/trans fluid in the cylinders as mentioned. As the acetone evaporates the tranny fluid seeps in. I don't know about your welder coupling but could you sacrifice it and replace with a lovejoy or make a new one? I have a TJD spare and a THD. The THD is on a Lincwelder.

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    Re: G-213 with a TJD Wisconsin

    The cylinders don't look that bad. I'll try the acetone trans mix, hopefully that will do the trick.
    SA 200s : 1944 1945 1963 1965 1969 1980
    1981 SA 250 D3.152 DC only
    2004 Ranger 10,000
    Lincoln Pro Mig 135
    Miller Load Bank
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    Hobart GPB 261 Mainliner
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    Re: G-213 with a TJD Wisconsin

    If you don't see any scoring then the problem probably isn't in the cylinders. Hate to say it but it could be a broken rod.
    Mike
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    Re: G-213 with a TJD Wisconsin

    Yeah, the cylinders don't show any scoring or gouges. I tried removing the cylinders from the pistons off the block the other day, hoping it's just stuck rings and not a broke rod or the bearings are welded to the crank journals. I did try turning the crank with the cylinders a little loose on top of the block and I still can't get any movment, not good.
    SA 200s : 1944 1945 1963 1965 1969 1980
    1981 SA 250 D3.152 DC only
    2004 Ranger 10,000
    Lincoln Pro Mig 135
    Miller Load Bank
    Hobart GPB 258 Pipeliner
    Hobart GPB 261 Mainliner
    Hobart Airforce 250
    Everlast PA 200st

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    Re: G-213 with a TJD Wisconsin

    Let your favorite penetrating oil solution set in the cylinders for a week or so, the put the biggest piece of wood that will fit on top of a piston and smack it with a hammer, go back and forth from piston to piston.Try some heat also, repeat as necessary, don't give up. These engines were meant to be rebuilt. Continental sells parts for Wisconsin engines and they have manuals also. Usually parts can be found on the net-eBay etc. Good luck!

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    Re: G-213 with a TJD Wisconsin

    How did the engine lockup
    If weather that is easy.
    But if from no oil it will cost.

    The engine was used everywhere. The flywheel has #2 morse tapper.
    It was a great engine and last a long time.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by BYW200 View Post
    Anyone mess with a G-213 welder with a locked up engine? I pretty much have a basket case project, and tearing into this welder has taught me a few things. Being that I have removed the generator housing and the armature, I kinda of run into a problem as far as removing the coupling from the crankshaft because the set screws are not very easy to get to through either of the small round holes, not a good design for repair. I have used a pipe wrench on the hand crank end of the crankshaft being careful not to break it off while using heat and PB blaster on top of the pistons. I'm thinking it could also have spun a bearing and locked it it up to, What does everyone think? Is this thing worth messing with in this condition?
    Last edited by smithdoor; 06-08-2020 at 09:04 PM.

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    Re: G-213 with a TJD Wisconsin

    if u cant move the crank, you ought to be able to unbolt the bottom of the twin barrel, get it to slide it up. a tjd is sorta like a vh-4d cut in half. same barrels/pistons/connec rods. there were ton of vh-4ds out there on cement mixers etc.

    i got a couple laying around, im just terrible about boxing stuff up and sending it off

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    Re: G-213 with a TJD Wisconsin

    Well, I mixed tranny fluid and acetone 50/50 and poured into the cylinders the other day. By the end of this week maybe it will turn loose. The crankshaft is so stiff that when I put lots of force on it, it fells like I could snap the end of the hand crank snout off. I'm going to end up taking the oil pan off and removing the connecting rods from the crank instead of tearing something up.

    I remember about 20 years ago, the company I worked for had 5 putzmiester concrete pumps with the 4 cylinder wisconsin engine, they were tough!
    SA 200s : 1944 1945 1963 1965 1969 1980
    1981 SA 250 D3.152 DC only
    2004 Ranger 10,000
    Lincoln Pro Mig 135
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    Hobart GPB 261 Mainliner
    Hobart Airforce 250
    Everlast PA 200st

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    Re: G-213 with a TJD Wisconsin

    Sounds like the water going into the cylinder is problem.
    I have used just fill both cylinder diesel fuel and let set for a month in the hot sun.
    I use this way on few engines and tools.
    This works with cast iron to cast iron, steel or brass
    Does not work with aluminum to cast iron/steel parts.

    Dave


    Quote Originally Posted by BYW200 View Post
    Well, I mixed tranny fluid and acetone 50/50 and poured into the cylinders the other day. By the end of this week maybe it will turn loose. The crankshaft is so stiff that when I put lots of force on it, it fells like I could snap the end of the hand crank snout off. I'm going to end up taking the oil pan off and removing the connecting rods from the crank instead of tearing something up.

    I remember about 20 years ago, the company I worked for had 5 putzmiester concrete pumps with the 4 cylinder wisconsin engine, they were tough!

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    Re: G-213 with a TJD Wisconsin

    You can replace the engine
    The parts can hard to find

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by smithdoor View Post
    Sounds like the water going into the cylinder is problem.
    I have used just fill both cylinder diesel fuel and let set for a month in the hot sun.
    I use this way on few engines and tools.
    This works with cast iron to cast iron, steel or brass
    Does not work with aluminum to cast iron/steel parts.

    Dave

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    Re: G-213 with a TJD Wisconsin

    Update: The engine is at a loss. When I pulled the drain plug, about a quart of water came out. I had to remove the block from the oil pan/base section, then I removed the rod bearing caps. The crankshaft was in a spot where I had to drive #1 rod stud out, where the rod would clear the camshaft, to remove the cylinder and pistons as a unit. Both pistons are seized in the cylinders with lots of rust, and the pistons are oxidized pretty bad. Even after removing both rods from the crank, the crank was still froze up!!!. This thing is a true bust!!
    SA 200s : 1944 1945 1963 1965 1969 1980
    1981 SA 250 D3.152 DC only
    2004 Ranger 10,000
    Lincoln Pro Mig 135
    Miller Load Bank
    Hobart GPB 258 Pipeliner
    Hobart GPB 261 Mainliner
    Hobart Airforce 250
    Everlast PA 200st

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    Re: G-213 with a TJD Wisconsin

    I would just replace the engine

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by BYW200 View Post
    Update: The engine is at a loss. When I pulled the drain plug, about a quart of water came out. I had to remove the block from the oil pan/base section, then I removed the rod bearing caps. The crankshaft was in a spot where I had to drive #1 rod stud out, where the rod would clear the camshaft, to remove the cylinder and pistons as a unit. Both pistons are seized in the cylinders with lots of rust, and the pistons are oxidized pretty bad. Even after removing both rods from the crank, the crank was still froze up!!!. This thing is a true bust!!

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    Re: G-213 with a TJD Wisconsin

    I've looked online, and the ones I see are for different applications, rebuilt engines are well over $1000.00 which I think is not a bad price, I just don't know if the welder I have is worth it to put that kind of money in it. There are still lots of things that i'm not sure that work on the welding or aux A/C side.
    SA 200s : 1944 1945 1963 1965 1969 1980
    1981 SA 250 D3.152 DC only
    2004 Ranger 10,000
    Lincoln Pro Mig 135
    Miller Load Bank
    Hobart GPB 258 Pipeliner
    Hobart GPB 261 Mainliner
    Hobart Airforce 250
    Everlast PA 200st

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    Re: G-213 with a TJD Wisconsin

    One thing they're known for is the ones with no fuses for the aux quite often burn up the windings due to overload. The ceramic insulators on the main resistor break and you usually have to cast your own. Have a friend in Florida that had to go thru the insulator thing. IMO I'd write it off as a loss. Hate to see you sink $$ into it and then find bad things on the gennie end. The most I'd do is get the engine apart and assess the damage, those pistons will come out in pieces if need be.
    Mike
    Ol' Stonebreaker
    "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"
    Hobart G-213 portable
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    Re: G-213 with a TJD Wisconsin

    It was good welder I own one pass and great.
    I never would think Wisconsin would not be here.
    I would look at Harbor freight for new engine.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by BYW200 View Post
    I've looked online, and the ones I see are for different applications, rebuilt engines are well over $1000.00 which I think is not a bad price, I just don't know if the welder I have is worth it to put that kind of money in it. There are still lots of things that i'm not sure that work on the welding or aux A/C side.

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    Re: G-213 with a TJD Wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by mla2ofus View Post
    One thing they're known for is the ones with no fuses for the aux quite often burn up the windings due to overload. The ceramic insulators on the main resistor break and you usually have to cast your own. Have a friend in Florida that had to go thru the insulator thing. IMO I'd write it off as a loss. Hate to see you sink $$ into it and then find bad things on the gennie end. The most I'd do is get the engine apart and assess the damage, those pistons will come out in pieces if need be.
    Mike
    Yes, the main resistor insulators are all crack. I got some High temp ceramic repair putty that's good up to 2400 degrees F, was hoping things would have turned out better.
    SA 200s : 1944 1945 1963 1965 1969 1980
    1981 SA 250 D3.152 DC only
    2004 Ranger 10,000
    Lincoln Pro Mig 135
    Miller Load Bank
    Hobart GPB 258 Pipeliner
    Hobart GPB 261 Mainliner
    Hobart Airforce 250
    Everlast PA 200st

  20. #19
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    Re: G-213 with a TJD Wisconsin

    Here is a few pics of inside of this engine.
    Attached Images Attached Images     
    SA 200s : 1944 1945 1963 1965 1969 1980
    1981 SA 250 D3.152 DC only
    2004 Ranger 10,000
    Lincoln Pro Mig 135
    Miller Load Bank
    Hobart GPB 258 Pipeliner
    Hobart GPB 261 Mainliner
    Hobart Airforce 250
    Everlast PA 200st

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    Re: G-213 with a TJD Wisconsin

    It look good
    The left cylinder will hard one .
    But it looks aluminum piston so a torch will take out that piston.
    Then just and have cylinder rebored. I would get pistons first be for reboring so match the cylinder to piston.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by BYW200 View Post
    Here is a few pics of inside of this engine.

  22. #21
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    Re: G-213 with a TJD Wisconsin

    IIRC the schematic has some resistance values so maybe you can check out the gennie end before putting time and $$ into the engine.
    Mike
    Ol' Stonebreaker
    "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"
    Hobart G-213 portable
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  23. #22
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    Re: G-213 with a TJD Wisconsin

    I'm going to look into generator side and see if the main armature is still good along with field coils, along with everything else. All the wires seem to be in fair condition, not sure if the transformer ok for the A/C side. As far as the engine goes, I'll see if I can get the pistons out of the cylinders without gouging the walls. The crankshaft, cam are going to be another challenge. If it looks like things are going to go south, I'm just going to junk the whole thing, or give it away. It's sad to see something like this that was once a good machine get this far gone.
    SA 200s : 1944 1945 1963 1965 1969 1980
    1981 SA 250 D3.152 DC only
    2004 Ranger 10,000
    Lincoln Pro Mig 135
    Miller Load Bank
    Hobart GPB 258 Pipeliner
    Hobart GPB 261 Mainliner
    Hobart Airforce 250
    Everlast PA 200st

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    Re: G-213 with a TJD Wisconsin

    Most do know the Wisconsin owned by a aircraft engine manufacturer.
    So engine was built well comparison to other manufacturers

    Dave

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    Re: G-213 with a TJD Wisconsin

    Sorry it turned out this way. If never had one of those little Hobarts but always wanted one. Sometimes you get lucky, I bought a barn find 1966 SA200 Redface and in 24 hrs I had it running and welding. I also bought a late 30ís Westinghouse with a flathead 6 Chrysler that I thought was stuck. Turned out that the armature had slung itself apart, the old Chrysler was pristine inside. I think if you take your time you can find a running welder like you have for $1000 and have that one for parts. Just my opinion.


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  26. #25
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    Re: G-213 with a TJD Wisconsin

    They this engine on farming equipment and find a replacement on salvage yard.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by BYW200 View Post
    Anyone mess with a G-213 welder with a locked up engine? I pretty much have a basket case project, and tearing into this welder has taught me a few things. Being that I have removed the generator housing and the armature, I kinda of run into a problem as far as removing the coupling from the crankshaft because the set screws are not very easy to get to through either of the small round holes, not a good design for repair. I have used a pipe wrench on the hand crank end of the crankshaft being careful not to break it off while using heat and PB blaster on top of the pistons. I'm thinking it could also have spun a bearing and locked it it up to, What does everyone think? Is this thing worth messing with in this condition?

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