Accupulse robotic welding

[BwillieS]

Hello all,

For a 316" fillet Is there a way to calculate what your average current will be if you specify what your Trim, Arc Control, WFS, and stickout are?

Thanks for any info you can provide!

[BwillieS]

Friendly bump.

[Kevin Morin]

Friendly bump.

BwillieS,
the number of conditional variables not provided seem to make the question appear to a trolling the forum?

If you look at all the various, strikingly obvious facts and conditions not provided ? You might notice the question is the verbal equivalent of "why did the hen cross the road?"

WHy not provide some #1 background? #2 metal #3 machine/power supply #4 torch/process #5 values for any welding circuit variable in terms of the mfg. of your power supply? And a few other pertinent details?

By the way, "Why did the hen......"

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai, AK

[BwillieS]

Kevin,

LOL! You need to look up what a forum troll is… your aggressive reply is literally the definition of it… you actually made me laugh out loud.

As for the additional info I’m a little perplexed on why you need all of it… unless it was just an uncontrolled rant you were on… maybe I didn’t explain myself well.

I was curious if there is a formula that can calculate the estimated current that is put into a weld if the below parameters are known.

Trim (Voltage)
Arc Control
WFS
Stickout.

I fail to see why ‘background’, ‘Material’, ‘Machine’, would play into this formula. I do agree ‘Process’ was needed and I apologies for that.

Background: robotic welding
Material: Mild Steal
Machine: Miller Auto Axcess 450.
Torch/process: GMAW (Valid question)


As for the Hen… are you the owner of this hen? If not, why do you care?

[TimmyTIG]

I don't think there are a whole lot of people on here that are familiar with what you're doing.

[Oscar]

Trim and Arc control, to the best of my knowledge as a hobbyist-researcher affect voltage & inductance, not current. WFS and CTWD are the main variables for current control (unless you are running a pulse program that actually varies WFS). Therefore, while Trim and Arc control (which affect the voltage profile) might affect heat input into the base metals (since Volts x Amps = Watts which is J/s, or through a numerical conversion: BTU/s), they might not necessarily affect current, which is what you were initially asking. Current does manifest itself as heat in the welding process, but it is not the sole precursor to it, as it is not always identically equivalent to it. Or perhaps you were asking the wrong question in the first place(?) or using the wrong terminology(?).

[BwillieS]

Hey Oscar,

I didn't think I would need Trim but wasn't sure if it did more than control the peak / background voltage. As for Arc Control I'd assume this is needed as it controls WFS (The interpolation of it) I was just hoping there was a formula to roughly calculate current based on the above know factors (may not need all of them) This way I would have a thumb wag of an idea how much current is being applied to any specific weld. Right now I set up the robot parameters run the weld and watch the 'average' current value on the machine while it welds.

[Oscar]

Right now I set up the robot parameters run the weld and watch the 'average' current value on the machine while it welds.

You don't need a formula. You have all you need right there on the display, as you said. Seems kind of redundant.

For arc control, the manual for that machine does not mention altering WFS. Can you point me to the page where it describes such a function?

[BwillieS]

It was just for a thumb wag... so I could roughly know what the current should be before I look at the welder. so say if the calculation indicates I should be around 290 amps but the machine is showing 210 amps I know something is wrong. We have 200 plus welding robots in the plant with hundreds of different weld settings for various reasons (part fit up being most of it).

As for the Arc Control. maybe do a search online for it. Several years back I was in training at Miller when we started to work with pulse welding and it was there I was taught about it. Basically if you have the Arc control set to 25 100 IPM = 100 IPM. if you dial up or down the Arc Control your WFS will change by 2% per tick up/down. so for example if you set the arc control to 30 100 IPM = 110 IPM.

[Oscar]

It was just for a thumb wag... so I could roughly know what the current should be before I look at the welder. so say if the calculation indicates I should be around 290 amps but the machine is showing 210 amps I know something is wrong. We have 200 plus welding robots in the plant with hundreds of different weld settings for various reasons (part fit up being most of it).

As for the Arc Control. maybe do a search online for it. Several years back I was in training at Miller when we started to work with pulse welding and it was there I was taught about it. Basically if you have the Arc control set to 25 100 IPM = 100 IPM. if you dial up or down the Arc Control your WFS will change by 2% per tick up/down. so for example if you set the arc control to 30 100 IPM = 110 IPM.

I think your search will turn up emtpy-handed unless you do this kind of work yourself. You already have the welding robots, you just need to collect empirical data to formulate a mathematical model to generate curves of best-fit for the data, which is essentially the equation you are looking for. Are you versed in numerical approximation techniques and/or curve-fitting methods/regressions? That's what you'd need to be proficient at, even if using technology to do the number-crunching for you.

[albrightree]

@oscar -
6-1 . Operational Terms (Continued)
WFS Term used to represent wire feed speed. In MIG mode, wire feed setting is independent of voltage setting. In
pulse, Accu-pulse, and RMD (optional) adjusting wire feed speed also increases power level on wire electrode
(one knob control).



I think wire size , and type would be necessary information. In fact most wire spec sheets would have the information available. Mode setting might also have a some influence in predicting actual amperage.. Are you in short circuit , spray , accu-pulse, RMD ?
Are you using the amperage to determine gun size, wire size , gas flow , etc. or are you looking for total energy input , and temp rise across finished assy ? Miller has some calculators on their web site, none is as specific as you are hoping for. You might have to create your own. Have you tried call miller tech support ?

You might have better luck on the AWS site. I don't think there are many robotic welding Engineers/techs here.

Good luck

[Zebidiah]

I assume your spray arc'ing with a Miller axcess 450? I can tell you that at 24 volts, with .045 wire the axcess 450 DI/robot machine running right beside me is averaging about 240 amps. When you are referencing trim, am I also to assume your talking about synergic calibration controls? Fanuc? Motoman? Other? Is your goal to calibrate welder output vs stated output? You could easily see the real time stated output by setting the robot to run about 25-30 IPM with a variable voltage setting between 21-27.