How do You Weld 6010 With an Inverter Machine?

[lugweld]

You lose all credibility when you suggest an experienced welder use 6013! I agree using 6010 would be the best option for welding internally in awkward positions.

Considering that this forum is read all over the world, you may end up eating crow, since they use 6013 for root passes and similar applications in many places outside the US.

[Welder Dave]

As was mentioned 6013 in Europe appears to be different than N. American 6013. Show me a welding shop in N. America other than a sheet metal shop that uses any amount of 6013 and I'll eat crow all day long. 3 most common rods before flux-core and/wire feed took over are 6010, 7018 and 7024. Some variances but those are the main 3. 7014 is somewhat similar to 6013 but is easier to use, gives better deposition and penetration and most importantly is quite a bit stronger. Here is CEP's (aka Puddles) 6013 break test that I (stick weld) had asked if he could do. Decide for yourself if you'd trust it for something you didn't want to break. I was mistaken, it only took 3 blows to break.

https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/c...oolt&th=293747

[TimmyTIG]

Something new that I discovered about the Everlast this evening. I waned to weld some 6010 again, so I put it on Power Set and put in the settings for 5/32 6010.

i went to tack something and it was hot as hell. Turned it down in Power Set as low as it would go, still way too hot. So, I turned the Power Set off and looked at the setting in normal Stick, it was turned up all the way, I forget why. Turned it down to 120, then went back to Power Set and tried again, with it set for to 5/32 6010 and 120 amps. Welded fine.

Isn't the Power Set supposed to override the setting in basic Stick mode?

@lugweld.

[Kelvin]

6013 is often referred to as the farmer rod.

I think you're referring to 6010/1. Farmers commonly use it because it's great for blowing through paint/oil/trash and for filling gaps when fitup ain't so good.

[TraditionalToolworks]

I think you're referring to 6010/1. Farmers commonly use it because it's great for blowing through paint/oil/trash and for filling gaps when fitup ain't so good.

As you likely know, you can get 6013 here in the States, but as you and/or others have pointed out it's not used by hardly any welders, and certainly at the LWSs by me the boxes are all dusty. It's not bad welding rod, I've used it and one thing is you can get 1/16" 6013 fairly easily for thin metal. Go ask for 6013 at a LWS and chances are they might laugh at you. Also seems a bit runny to me when doing vertical.

That said, I completely agree with your comments about 6010/6011, but I don't weld code work with it, I just use it to blow through paint/oil/rust.

[Welder Dave]

No 6013 is referred to as the farmer rod but some people also refer to 6011 as farmer rod. 6013 is easy to strike, has a smooth arc and makes a pretty looking weld. Some farmers will run 6011 on their AC machines because they have more experience/education regarding welding. Some people think 6010/6011 isn't a good weld because has the rough looking ripples in the bead. 6011 also has more spatter. People in the know want the stack of dimes look.

"They call 6013" farmer rod" because it is so easy to weld with."

https://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com...ding-rods.html

[Oscar]

Something new that I discovered about the Everlast this evening. I waned to weld some 6010 again, so I put it on Power Set and put in the settings for 5/32 6010.

i went to tack something and it was hot as hell. Turned it down in Power Set as low as it would go, still way too hot. So, I turned the Power Set off and looked at the setting in normal Stick, it was turned up all the way, I forget why. Turned it down to 120, then went back to Power Set and tried again, with it set for to 5/32 6010 and 120 amps. Welded fine.

Isn't the Power Set supposed to override the setting in basic Stick mode?

@lugweld.

Dang, that's a lot of work just to get it to weld 6010s!

[TimmyTIG]

Dang, that's a lot of work just to get it to weld 6010s!

It's just a couple of buttons to push, it's not that much work. But it will take a little getting used to. Seems like the Power Set ought to at least override the amperage setting on regular stick. It lets your arc force and hot start through, but it makes no sense to let the amperage through if it's supposed to be setting the machine for you.
I need to experiment with it some more to see how it really works.

[WNY_TomB]

I usually use 6010 for tack welding and root pass and or filling gaps especially out of flat position like overhead, or vertical up or down, rest of weld normally I use 7018 as its stronger and looks better.
.
sure many pipe welders only use 6010 or 7010
.
6013 many use big rod like 5/32 rod for 1/4" plate or 1/8" rod for 3/16" plate, 3/32 rod for 1/8" plate, etc. usually dont use 6013 if 1/4" or thicker and or if out of position vertical or overhead or filling gaps. cause 6013 can leave slag entrapment very easily and lack of penetration can leave weld thats looks ok but is not ok

[WNY_TomB]

It's just a couple of buttons to push, it's not that much work. But it will take a little getting used to. Seems like the Power Set ought to at least override the amperage setting on regular stick. It lets your arc force and hot start through, but it makes no sense to let the amperage through if it's supposed to be setting the machine for you.
I need to experiment with it some more to see how it really works.

.
some inverters will run 1/8" 6010 at 70 to 100 amps but above 100 amps arc will sputter be unstable, 3/32 rod may 40-55amps above that arc sputters. just saying try 5/32" 6010 if you need 110-130 amps rather than 1/8"rod. sometimes then you can use 6010 on some inverters if avoid the higher end of recommended amps for that rod size

[Kelvin]

No 6013 is referred to as the farmer rod but some people also refer to 6011 as farmer rod. 6013 is easy to strike, has a smooth arc and makes a pretty looking weld. Some farmers will run 6011 on their AC machines because they have more experience/education regarding welding. Some people think 6010/6011 isn't a good weld because has the rough looking ripples in the bead. 6011 also has more spatter. People in the know want the stack of dimes look.

"They call 6013" farmer rod" because it is so easy to weld with."

https://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com...ding-rods.html

Are you some kind of bot? Or just some 15-year-old Indian who goes scurrying off Googling the answers to questions and then comes back and copy-pastes the answers?

Because most of your posts sound like one or the other...you definitely don't sound like "Welder Dave" to me...in fact, even "Traditional Toolworks" sounds more knowledgeable (though he does sound like your "brother").

Tell us, Welder Dave, why do "people in the know want the stack of dimes look"?

[Welder Dave]

Are you some kind of bot? Or just some 15-year-old Indian who goes scurrying off Googling the answers to questions and then comes back and copy-pastes the answers?

Because most of your posts sound like one or the other...you definitely don't sound like "Welder Dave" to me...in fact, even "Traditional Toolworks" sounds more knowledgeable (though he does sound like your "brother").

Tell us, Welder Dave, why do "people in the know want the stack of dimes look"?

You'd suggested I meant 6010/6011, I didn't. The stack of dimes look is the sign of an excellent weld to those in the industry. To someone less knowledgeable it could appear rough looking. Why should anybody take your word that 6010/6011 is called farmer rod? Just because you said it? People in the know as in those in the welding industry. Providing a link is way to back up what I'm saying. It's easier than just stating what could be considered by some my opinion. Timmy TIG's 6010 weld on the outside of his smoker is the stack of dimes you're looking for. People who aren't experienced or knowledgeable about different rods and their characteristics often dismiss 6010/6011 as being too rough looking with too much spatter. Farmers who do occasional welding want something that's easy to burn and if it looks nice gives them gratification. They certainly aren't aware some rods work better using a whipping technique or having a rougher looking appearance is acceptable unless they've taken a course or done some reading. I also mentioned 6010/6011 is also considered a farmer rod by some.

[TimmyTIG]

[TimmyTIG]

I wasn't going for a stack of dimes with this, I was trying to do a drag cap like they showed me in my all too brief pipeline career. I didn't have the Power Set for 6010 turned on, and the arc kept cutting out on me, so didn't really come out as nice as I would have liked. Oh well, it holds smoke, anyway.

[TimmyTIG]

Stack of dimes, maybe? This was the hot pass on that weld

[Welder Dave]

It's close. Some people don't realize 6010 by nature has rougher looking ripples. If you asked a random person which weld they preferred they'd probably chose a smoother bead like the bead on the right (although it was done with sub-arc). 6013 can leave a nice smooth shiny bead but that doesn't mean it's a better or stronger weld.

[TimmyTIG]

I don't have a sub arc in the garage, not gonna get one, either.

I do know how to run it, though.

[Welder Dave]

A sub-arc pressure ticket is the only welding ticket that doesn't require being a certified pressure welder as a pre requisite. A shop could basically train anyone to be a sub-arc welder. I think a lot of people would get bored doing sub-arc day in and day out. You basically make sure the flux doesn't run out and the wire stick out and direction stays consistent. Occasionally you have to knock a little slag off before it gets to the arc. I worked in a large vessel shop that had the sub-arc machine blow the main circuit breaker for the whole shop around midnight. It sounded like dynamite going off and the shop was pitch black. I was on my way to the rod oven and saw sparks coming out of the Lincoln DC600 running the sub-arc. Just as I was thinking that's not good and was going to turn it off, boom. A couple minutes earlier and I would have been up on a skid turned vertical welding the cross beams in.

[12V71]

One winter in the 80's I worked in a shop that was fabbing beams for lowboy type trailers, doing the sub arc thing. We had one of those little magnetic "tractors" to carry the gun with an air flux feed. It was kind of a PITA when you found out the guys on the previous shift got sloppy screening the flux they vacuumed up with slag chunks. All you had to do was vacuum right behind the arc before the slag popped.

[Welder Dave]

The vacuum picks up most of the flux but sometimes slag will stick a little. Interesting about sub-arc flux is it can be reused. I worked in a tank shop that used a 50/50 mix of new and reclaimed flux. You had to make sure not to use a corn broom to sweep it up because they couldn't filter the strands out of it when it was ground up.

[TimmyTIG]

A sub-arc pressure ticket is the only welding ticket that doesn't require being a certified pressure welder as a pre requisite. A shop could basically train anyone to be a sub-arc welder. I think a lot of people would get bored doing sub-arc day in and day out. You basically make sure the flux doesn't run out and the wire stick out and direction stays consistent. Occasionally you have to knock a little slag off before it gets to the arc. I worked in a large vessel shop that had the sub-arc machine blow the main circuit breaker for the whole shop around midnight. It sounded like dynamite going off and the shop was pitch black. I was on my way to the rod oven and saw sparks coming out of the Lincoln DC600 running the sub-arc. Just as I was thinking that's not good and was going to turn it off, boom. A couple minutes earlier and I would have been up on a skid turned vertical welding the cross beams in.

It's a whole lot more involved than that. The worst part is trying to get it filled up even to cap, without being able to see what it's doing. A big pipe like that has wide spots and narrow spots in the bevel, you have to speed up and slow down and change the wire speed constantly to try and get it filled even. It's a major pain in the butt.

[Welder Dave]

It takes experience to be a good sub-arc operator for sure. Speed can change depending on how much build up you need. It's kind of like roll welding pipe but you can't see the actual build up until the slag comes off. Manually rolling pipe you want to leave the bevel edges and be down enough with your fill pass your cap won't be too high.

One thing you don't want with sub-arc is burn through. It's a big mess by the time you realize it. Only saw it once and was glad I didn't have to repair it. I worked in a vessel shop where they hired a welder who also had a sub-arc ticket. The regular sub-arc operator was sick or on holidays so asked this guy if he could run the sub-arc. Welded up about a 2" think shell that had a double bevel. Most of the bevel was on the outside. The inside got welded up and then the outside gouged to get into the sound weld metal. He welded it up and it looked good but the X-ray showed another story. His first pass from the outside had incomplete fusion so the weld had to be gouged out to repair it. I think he gouged it out but another sub-arc operator did the weld. The guy was a little bit cocky but was humbled by the failed x-ray. He was worried he'd lose his sub-arc ticket.

[TraditionalToolworks]

I don't get it, first Dave says a shop can train anyone to be a sub-arc welder, now he says it takes experience to be a good sub-arc welder. I guess most shops don't need a good sub-arc welder...???

I mean, not to be a smart @$$, but this doesn't make sense.

[TimmyTIG]

Well, you could possibly train anybody to be a sub arc welder, but that doesn't necessarily mean they would be a good sub arc welder. I wouldn't consider the person that did the weld in that picture to be a good sub arc welder, the cap width is inconsistent and has spots where it rooster tailed, but I guess it was good enough to hold propane for quite a few years. I have to say, though - that a one bead sub arc cap is not something that I would do willingly. It's too hard to handle high low and bevel inconsistencies with a single bead cap.

This was one of my better efforts on 10 inch heavy wall.

[TraditionalToolworks]

Well, you could possibly train anybody to be a sub arc welder, but that doesn't necessarily mean they would be a good sub arc welder.

Yeah, that's the point...how many people do you know that want a so-so sub-arc welder?

That looks really nice. I think your smoker beads look nice for 6010.