Beware incompatible Miller MDX mig torches

[winston_smith]

I pulled out the shiny new MDX-100 mig torch for my Multimatic 220 so that my friend can borrow the rig, got all ready to weld, and discovered that Miller changed the threads on the tip to be incompatible with the older M-series torch I had on my Multimatic 215. And they seem to have picked a nonstandard thread pitch that I can't even find listed anywhere. So I can't even spend an hour cutting a new thread on an old tip to get him through the job. I gave the new consumables to the guy I sold my 215 to, but kept my old spares, so now he and I both have parts we can't use. I'm also out of luck getting them shipped anytime soon, because Miller wants to keep a death grip on the distribution channels and isn't set up for Amazon Prime.

So I'm pretty ticked off at Miller for leaving me high and dry for a week thanks to an unlisted proprietary thread pitch. That's how you burn customer loyalty in a hurry.

[danielplace]

[FONT="]I pulled out the shiny new MDX-100 mig torch for my Multimatic 220 so that my friend can borrow the rig, got all ready to weld, and discovered that Miller changed the threads on the tip to be incompatible with the older M-series torch I had on my Multimatic 215. And they seem to have picked a nonstandard thread pitch that I can't even find listed anywhere. So I can't even spend an hour cutting a new thread on an old tip to get him through the job. I gave the new consumables to the guy I sold my 215 to, but kept my old spares, so now he and I both have parts we can't use. I'm also out of luck getting them shipped anytime soon, because Miller wants to keep a death grip on the distribution channels and isn't set up for Amazon Prime.[/FONT][FONT="]
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So I'm pretty ticked off at Miller for leaving me high and dry for a week thanks to an unlisted proprietary thread pitch. That's how you burn customer loyalty in a hurry.

Miller didn't do anything. They made a new product and you don't have the proper spares to fit it. How is that Millers fault ? Most everywhere that list the MDX says they don't fit a the M-100. Any different gun you have to confirm the consumables it uses or EXPECT you may be disappointed in your self otherwise.

It is what companies do nowadays whether there was a reason or not. Often just so you have to get all new which is likely the case here.

When you buy a new car from the same brand do you just expect the oil and air filters are going to work from the old one ? I would not EXPECT the consumables to be any different. It is what they do. Change up just enough to make it incompatible. Those bastards !!!!! I hear ya.

The tips are available everywhere. Just order them.

[Rondo]

Miller, like others had to go with a new tip design due to aftermarket manufacturers selling Chinese knock offs for half price.

[CAVEMANN]

I seriously doubt that they "developed"a"non-standard", "proprietary" thread pitch, SAE thread pitches include a series known as national special, common references are NC, NATIONAL COURSE, NF, NATIONAL FINE AND NS, NATIONAL SPECIAL. I don't think the same situation exists in metric fasteners, but I'm not 100% sure, there are a few, very few metric sizes that may have 3 pitches available., but I have never seen a "special" designation. SAE threads are measured threads per inch, or TPI, metric threads are measured peak to peak.

It's also known as "PLANNED OBSOLESCENCE". Maybe just a change in diameter or other minor change, very common in some computer software, like book-keepingapps like Peachtree, and/or Quickbooks.

[Welder Dave]

Lincoln did the same thing years earlier and even on the same machine in mid year. If you had older Lincoln Migs and wanted to add/replace a machine you also had to keep a 2nd set of consumables in stock. I thought at the time it was a slap in the face for your loyal customers. Aftermarket knock offs may have something to do with it but it sure alienates the customers that want OEM consumables and have standardization in their shop.

[SlowBlues]

I think it sucks either way, and is absolutely about Miller (and parent company) making as much money as they can.

Fortunately the demand is there and the free market will provide alternatives. The only miller (hobart) brand consumable I've purchased in years has been the flux core nozzle (can't seem to find a cheaper/good off brand) - everything else comes from third parties at half the price with ZERO DIFFERENCE IN PERFORMANCE. There is junk out there but many larger outfitters offer "house brands" and the homework is not hard to do.

I feel miller grossly overprices their consumables to begin with and I think making things like mig tips "proprietary" with new designs usually does nothing for performance and is just a money grab.

[G-ManBart]

[FONT="]I pulled out the shiny new MDX-100 mig torch for my Multimatic 220 so that my friend can borrow the rig, got all ready to weld, and discovered that Miller changed the threads on the tip to be incompatible with the older M-series torch I had on my Multimatic 215. And they seem to have picked a nonstandard thread pitch that I can't even find listed anywhere. So I can't even spend an hour cutting a new thread on an old tip to get him through the job. I gave the new consumables to the guy I sold my 215 to, but kept my old spares, so now he and I both have parts we can't use. I'm also out of luck getting them shipped anytime soon, because Miller wants to keep a death grip on the distribution channels and isn't set up for Amazon Prime.[/FONT][FONT="]
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So I'm pretty ticked off at Miller for leaving me high and dry for a week thanks to an unlisted proprietary thread pitch. That's how you burn customer loyalty in a hurry.

Miller switched to using guns made by Bernard. They use standard Bernard consumables that are widely available....including on Amazon. If you had simply done a Google search on MDX consumables you would have found that out almost immediately.

I don't know what size tip you want, but many variations are listed...here's .035"

https://www.amazon.com/Miller-Contac..._t1_B07S5GB9M3

[G-ManBart]

I think it sucks either way, and is absolutely about Miller (and parent company) making as much money as they can.

Fortunately the demand is there and the free market will provide alternatives. The only miller (hobart) brand consumable I've purchased in years has been the flux core nozzle (can't seem to find a cheaper/good off brand) - everything else comes from third parties at half the price with ZERO DIFFERENCE IN PERFORMANCE. There is junk out there but many larger outfitters offer "house brands" and the homework is not hard to do.

I feel miller grossly overprices their consumables to begin with and I think making things like mig tips "proprietary" with new designs usually does nothing for performance and is just a money grab.

They switched to Bernard guns and you can buy consumables at reasonable prices lots of places. The link I just posted worked out to $1.65 with shipper per contact tip....that doesn't seem too far off for a small package. I'm sure they can be found cheaper in larger package sizes.

[G-ManBart]

I seriously doubt that they "developed"a"non-standard", "proprietary" thread pitch, SAE thread pitches include a series known as national special, common references are NC, NATIONAL COURSE, NF, NATIONAL FINE AND NS, NATIONAL SPECIAL. I don't think the same situation exists in metric fasteners, but I'm not 100% sure, there are a few, very few metric sizes that may have 3 pitches available., but I have never seen a "special" designation. SAE threads are measured threads per inch, or TPI, metric threads are measured peak to peak.

It's also known as "PLANNED OBSOLESCENCE". Maybe just a change in diameter or other minor change, very common in some computer software, like book-keepingapps like Peachtree, and/or Quickbooks.

The tips in question use a very coarse thread so they turn in/out quickly...looks like less than a full turn.

[danielplace]

https://www.bernardwelds.com/acculoc...4#.XvjTnV-Sm1s

The idea was/is to have one style in all the guns.

Fewer Parts, More Accuracy
Stock a single line of consumables. AccuLock™ S Consumables can be shared across all of your Miller MDX-250 MIG guns, Bernard® BTB MIG guns and Clean Air™ Fume Extraction MIG guns reducing inventory and decreasing replacement errors.

Funny though. My new Multimatic with Bernard gun uses Centerfire consumables which are different yet.

Do they already have a different factory gun on it too ?

[Welder Dave]

I think it would have been good for Miller to mention they have improved the guns and they use Bernard consumables. The M series were pretty light duty for a shop setting. I worked in a shop that had 6 MM 252's and they always had at least 2 guns broken down and for some unknown reason kept replacing them with more M-25 guns instead of going to the much better Bernard guns. Owner was really cheap but it was costing him a lot more in the long run. One time I had to rob a gun off another machine or I couldn't work. Then if the other machine was needed it was out of commission. You had to get the foreman go up front to get a new contact tip or a grinding wheel. Half the time he spent 5 to 10 minutes talking with the owner and you're twiddling your thumbs waiting. They wouldn't order more electrodes until they ran out. Having blueprints so the workers could see what to build with dimensions and angles etc., was a big taboo there. One of the most inefficient shops I ever worked at.

[CAVEMANN]

The tips in question use a very coarse thread so they turn in/out quickly...looks like less than a full turn.

Those types of threads have been around forever, often they are multiple lead threads, designed for exactly the reason you state, rapid movement.

[G-ManBart]

https://www.bernardwelds.com/acculoc...4#.XvjTnV-Sm1s

The idea was/is to have one style in all the guns.

Fewer Parts, More Accuracy
Stock a single line of consumables. AccuLock™ S Consumables can be shared across all of your Miller MDX-250 MIG guns, Bernard® BTB MIG guns and Clean Air™ Fume Extraction MIG guns reducing inventory and decreasing replacement errors.

Funny though. My new Multimatic with Bernard gun uses Centerfire consumables which are different yet.

Do they already have a different factory gun on it too ?

As I recall a current Bernard gun can use any of those parts, but you obviously have to match the diffuser, etc.

[G-ManBart]

Those types of threads have been around forever, often they are multiple lead threads, designed for exactly the reason you state, rapid movement.

I'm aware....I was just saying they're not a normal SAE or metric thread. I don't see how that has anything to do with planned obsolescence....they're just changing to a better product.

[danielplace]

As I recall a current Bernard gun can use any of those parts, but you obviously have to match the diffuser, etc.

Yes the new ones are all be same style consumables on MDX gun.
My 6 month old Multimatic 200 has the Bernard Q gun that uses centerfire consumables. They don't have any threads on them.
Already on to something different. They just started using that gun on them too. Great gun. Well designed and robust for it's size.

[Country Metals]

Of I recall correctly, doesnt the new miller guns feed the liner from the front? If that is the gun your talking about, it kind of sucks as there are different duty cycles for different gases. Say like 180 amps for 75/25 and 150 amps for co2.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[thegary]

Of I recall correctly, doesnt the new miller guns feed the liner from the front? If that is the gun your talking about, it kind of sucks as there are different duty cycles for different gases. Say like 180 amps for 75/25 and 150 amps for co2.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

All guns have different duty cycles for different gases. The gases do some of the cooling so a gas that has more cooling raises the duty cycle. That is one of the reasons a flux core gun gets so hot ( no gas to help cool it )