Anyone have a full face mask with breathing filter that's rated for impact resistance

[RoatanBill]

I recently had an 'incident' that prompted this query.

I've been wearing ear muffs, safety glasses and a 3M N95 paper breathing filter while cleaning steel. I use a Rockwell Jawhorse to hold whatever it is I'm working on.

I secured an odd shaped small piece of steel (<2") as best I could in the Jawhorse jaws and proceeded to clean the item. Because it had an odd shape, the jaws weren't sufficient when the angle grinder caught an edge and flung the thing into my crotch.

The force was like getting hit with a baseball bat. It tore my pants and I had an instant huge black & blue. After getting over the initial shock I immediately thought about having the thing flung into my face. The safety glasses and paper filter I was wearing would have been no protection worth mentioning.

I contacted 3M and they have no full face shield respirators that are impact rated. I want both the air filtration and an impact rated face plate.

Anyone know of such an item?

From now on I'm wearing the leather apron that I was too lazy to put on and I'm looking for real face and breathing protection.

[Hobbytime]

buy a face shield with poly corbonate plastic, thats what shooting glasses are made of, so you would have full face protection that would cover glasses and breathing filter..something like this..
https://www.amazon.com/Lincoln-Elect...s%2C190&sr=8-5

https://www.amazon.com/Sellstrom-S32...%2C190&sr=8-45

[RoatanBill]

I had something like the gadget you linked to. I didn't like it because it allowed tiny fragments to reach my eyes by going under the bottom of the shield. I'm not inclined to wear a shield, safety glasses, a breathing mask and ear muffs - 4 items to take on and off.

I'd like to go from the 3 items I wear now down to 2 to take on and off multiple times a day while providing much better protection. I'm hoping a proper product exists to allow me to do that.

[brianwade]

Hey Bill I am assuming a PAPR(powered air purifying respirator) welding helmet might work for you. I have found a website where they reviewed 3M speedglass and lincoln breathing repirators. you can have a look, here is the link for PAPR helmets https://helmetadviser.com/best-air-fed-welding-helmet/

[RoatanBill]

And I thought my old Speedglas helmet was expensive.

[Welder Dave]

If it was a large part flung at high speed I don't know if anything could prevent it from causing damage. You must have been pushing pretty hard on the grinder.

[RoatanBill]

It was a small part, under 2", but a difficult shape for the jaws to hold. I was using a 3" knotted cup brush on a DeWalt angle grinder. I don't think I was pressing too hard.

I should have used a large vice grip to hold the piece on an available flat and put the body of the vice grip in the Jawhorse jaws. That's what I'm doing from now on after experiencing first hand how much power 11,000 rpm on a comparatively heavy cup brush can transfer to an object. The momentum built up in the cup brush is far more than the same machine can impart to a less massive cutting wheel.

I'll readily admit I was stupid for not wearing my heavy leather apron and even more stupid for relying on cheap safety glasses for years. I don't know how many times I've looked at a spinning cutting or grinding wheel and wondered what would happen should it shatter but went on using it with minimal protection. No more. My excuse has been that I live in the tropics and the heat and humidity is tough to deal with.

I'm even looking into leather sleeves to protect my arms. I'm sure that ripping my pants caused the part to careen off in another direction after expending only a part of its energy. Had that been my bare arms I believe it would have entailed a hospital visit. The immediate bruise I got was the size of an orange. Days later it was the size of a cantaloupe.

[Broccoli1]

perhaps one of these

https://www.amazon.com/TR-Industrial.../dp/B00REG8JNS

and an Athletic Cup

[TimmyTIG]

That Speedglas won't help you if the part comes straight through the grinding lens without hitting the frame of the hood. The grinding lens on them is just like a regular face shield.
Try and grind or wire wheel so that stuff flies away from you.

[RoatanBill]

I hadn't discovered that item on Amazon. Not a bad idea having the hearing protection attached. My concern is still the open bottom to allow tiny fragments to reach my eyes.

On the face shield I have somewhere, it twice allowed tiny debris to hit around my eyes and is why I abandoned using it. The safety glasses I use offer a snug fit around my eyes, not perfect, but very good. Using both would be a highly effective solution, again not perfect, but acceptable. I just don't want to be taking that much stuff on and off constantly.

[RoatanBill]

Your observation is why I want something that is rated for impact resistance. I'm not fooling around any longer.

My Speedglas helmet has a grinding lens option but I never use it because there's no seal at the bottom. I thought about adding a leather flap to the bottom to extend the helmet's protection further as I saw sculptor Kevin Caron has on his to avoid welding spatter. Again, that's still sub optimal and when my eyes are involved at least now I want as much protection as I can get since I've woken up to the danger I've been flirting with.

I came close to purchasing a 3M face mask commonly used by painters or others that need fume and splatter protection, but decided that it just wasn't good enough remembering how I doubled over when I got hit. When I contacted 3M they were definite that their masks are NOT for impact protection, so I passed on their products.

I was hoping someone on this site had already discovered a solution that I could investigate and is why I posted. I'm still hunting myself and am determined to come up with a full face covering with an appropriate rating along with breathing protection. I'm looking at my angle grinders from a whole new perspective now.

[Hobbytime]

Your observation is why I want something that is rated for impact resistance. I'm not fooling around any longer.

My Speedglas helmet has a grinding lens option but I never use it because there's no seal at the bottom. I thought about adding a leather flap to the bottom to extend the helmet's protection further as I saw sculptor Kevin Caron has on his to avoid welding spatter. Again, that's still sub optimal and when my eyes are involved at least now I want as much protection as I can get since I've woken up to the danger I've been flirting with.

I came close to purchasing a 3M face mask commonly used by painters or others that need fume and splatter protection, but decided that it just wasn't good enough remembering how I doubled over when I got hit. When I contacted 3M they were definite that their masks are NOT for impact protection, so I passed on their products.

I was hoping someone on this site had already discovered a solution that I could investigate and is why I posted. I'm still hunting myself and am determined to come up with a full face covering with an appropriate rating along with breathing protection. I'm looking at my angle grinders from a whole new perspective now.

I have been grinding and wire wheeling with hand held grinders for over 40 years and never had a part fly back at me, so common sense and proper use of a tool will win out over trying to find or make a bullet proof mask...maybe you should watch some videos on proper use of an angle grinder and it may solve your problem...

[RoatanBill]

I've been welding and grinding for near 20 years as an amateur / hobbyist / weld for your own business interests and this is the first time something like this has happened.

Did I mess up - yes.
Could it have been catastrophic - yes.
Have grinding wheels exploded on people - yes.
Have cutting wheels disintegrated on people - yes.
Was absolutely every incident attributable to carelessness - no.

You too are not a perfect human being, so I dare say it can happen to you too. You can take your chances, but I'm not. I've learned my lesson via the school of hard knocks and I'm taking preventive measures.

[TimmyTIG]

[Hobbytime]

I've been welding and grinding for near 20 years as an amateur / hobbyist / weld for your own business interests and this is the first time something like this has happened.

Did I mess up - yes.
Could it have been catastrophic - yes.
Have grinding wheels exploded on people - yes.
Have cutting wheels disintegrated on people - yes.
Was absolutely every incident attributable to carelessness - no.

You too are not a perfect human being, so I dare say it can happen to you too. You can take your chances, but I'm not. I've learned my lesson via the school of hard knocks and I'm taking preventive measures.

you are correct...accidents happen and equipment and tools fail...unless you wrap yourself in a kevlar body suit and even that is not 100% fool proof, but wearing goggles and then an impact resistant face shield is the most practicable solution, but you are looking for a unicorn where it doesnt exist.... and then claim its too much trouble ..so do you want saftey or easy?? if you grind with wheel spinning away from you, so will chips and dust and any flying parts....and not up into your face....

[davec]

Are you looking for a full face respirator like this one?
https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-...4780256&rt=rud

If that was what you asked about, I am very surprised you were told it is not impact rated, as pretty much all full face respirators are ANSI Z87.1 impact rated. This statement was further down the page on that link:
The 6000 Series facepiece also meets the impact requirements of the ANSI Z87.1-2003 standard, high impact level for face and eye protection.

I am wondering if you asked the question in such a way as they did not understand what exactly you meant. If it says "ANSI Z87.1" on the lens somewhere, it is impact rated (at least to US standards).

Full faces are great if you don't wear prescription glasses as they seal out everything. There are kits for adding prescription glasses to them but they are expensive and inconvenient. They work, but are enough of a hassle that I think many people either just go without or skip using a full face. Just pick whatever filters you need and get to it.

The most convenient and basic solution is a basic faceshield like one of these from the same site (billions of these types available everywhere): https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-...4755179&rt=rud

Yes, it is possible for something to go under it but they give you much broader impact protection due to the large area they cover, and nothing is perfect. A faceshield covers down to your chest whereas a full face respirator only covers your face. You will have some compromise no matter what you decide. if you step up to the full PAPR/helmet systems like was linked above, you will pay big bucks for them, but they sure are nice overall.

[RoatanBill]

Dave:

Here is the exact reply I got from 3M:
Bill,

Thank you for contacting 3M. The ANSI impact testing for full facepieces is similar to what is done for goggles. This is less stringent than the test requirements for face shields. Therefore, if a face shield is required for your application, then the 6800 (or other full facpieces) would not be appropriate.

Erik
3M Personal Safety Division
United States


For anyone interested, since no one had a recommendation for the type of face protection I was after, I kept researching and found this unit:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I just purchased it along with filters.

For some this may be referred to as a unicorn.

I'll get it in 3 to 5 weeks due to reduced ocean ship traffic at this time. I'll report back on my opinion of the unit.

[Hobbytime]

Dave:

Here is the exact reply I got from 3M:
Bill,

Thank you for contacting 3M. The ANSI impact testing for full facepieces is similar to what is done for goggles. This is less stringent than the test requirements for face shields. Therefore, if a face shield is required for your application, then the 6800 (or other full facpieces) would not be appropriate.

Erik
3M Personal Safety Division
United States


For anyone interested, since no one had a recommendation for the type of face protection I was after, I kept researching and found this unit:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I just purchased it along with filters.

For some this may be referred to as a unicorn.

I'll get it in 3 to 5 weeks due to reduced ocean ship traffic at this time. I'll report back on my opinion of the unit.

im betting you wont be happy with that mask, its too restricting, if you never wore a gas mask, you wont be able to work in that too easily, it takes alot to get use to the restricted breathing and line of sight of what your working on, you will have to almost break your neck to be able to look straight down at what your grinding..but hey give it a try and see if it works out for you..

[albrightree]

Nice find.
I think I paid about $150 for the 3M full face respirator, and used it for grinding in confined areas while grinding. Have also used it while painting with OV cartidges. Wasn't too bad restriction wise, wasn't counting on it for High force impact like you describe. The Honeywell unit looks a little more restrictive, but I think I still have filter cartridges from one of the 1/2 face respirators that might fit. Let us know what you think of it after you've used it for a while.

Be safe

[CAVEMANN]

The company where I worked supplied our PPE's, including a half face. full face and an air supplied full face unit, the full face units had polycarbonate face shields, they had to meet osha/msha standards for our use. They were all supplied by MSA. I don't know how the impact tests would be other than the poly lens is virtually shatterproof & ours weren't subject to those same uses as you're asking about, we needed protection from toxic gasses & irritant & toxic dusts. I nour uses wearing safety glasses was not practical under the full face as it had to provide a good seal, we had clip in glasses for them.

[davec]

Unless someone told you it was approved to the higher 300 ft/sec impact standard for faceshields, I would suspect it meets the same standards as all full face respirators. I found no documentation to support anything other than "meets ANSI". The text on the Amazon listing said "ANSI high impact standard" There is no such thing, precisely. There are 2 impact tests for ANSI certification. 1. High Mass impact (A heavy dart with a blunt tip gets dropped on the mask and it must not break or fall apart) High mass is not too hard to meet and is the same for all safety eyewear/shields. 2. High Velocity Impact Test or HVIT A 1/4" steel bb is shot at the lens on a headform within a certain set of parameters including distance from the "gun" and speed at the muzzle of the "gun". The velocity for full face masks and goggles is 250 ft/sec, and for faceshields it is 300 ft/sec. (welding helmets and regular safety glasses are 150 ft/sec). There is really no choice in the standard, but you can certainly test higher than required. I'm not sure they would let you claim anything other than what the standard specifies.

In a nutshell, I think you would get the same protection in either product you posted about. I still say your best solution is a faceshield out front and skip the FF. Buy a bunch of replacement lenses at the same time you get one as they are cheap but I know your location makes getting things very difficult, so easier to group it all together. Yeah I've been doing this work for 25+ yrs now... I like FF masks for a lot of things but this is not the best application for one. And if you aren't already - wear safety glasses!