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Thread: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

  1. #26
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    1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    Nothiní wrong with wanting to have your gear looking good

    I used automotive paint on mine like Dave suggested. Iím too cheap to have it powder coated.

    Last edited by Lis2323; 07-31-2020 at 04:06 PM.
    :

  2. #27
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    Quote Originally Posted by Lis2323 View Post
    Nothin’ wrong with wanting to have your gear looking good

    I used automotive paint on mine like Dave suggested. I’m too cheap to have it powder coated.

    The bolt on the adjustment wheel is wrong. Lowers the value by at least 50%. How embarrassing. Where'd you pick up a round top in Canada? Canadian models were always flat tops as far as I know.

  3. #28
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    Quote Originally Posted by Welder Dave View Post
    The bolt on the adjustment wheel is wrong. Lowers the value by at least 50%. How embarrassing. Where'd you pick up a round top in Canada? Canadian models were always flat tops as far as I know.
    It came from a logging operation in Washington state. When he retired and sold the operation the owner brought it with him to BC.
    :

  4. #29
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    Todays work:

    I got the rest of the main components and body panels broken down, labels off, etc. I did put the bottom panel and transformer + choke stack back on the cart so I could get it back in the garage, but I only put 2 bolts in.

    Once things were apart I tried using Acetone to clean with but it made my shop towels disintegrate. So I stopped with the cleaning and just worked on breaking things down more. Then I made a trip to NAPA to get some better cleaner. What I ended up with was Royal Purple. This stuff works fairly well.

    I am trying to figure out a direction to go with paint. In the mean time - I have a lot of cleaning to do. Then once I get past the cleaning I will work on paint removal of the parts I need to remove the paint on. My guess is - if the weather cooperates - I still have a week's worth of work to do before painting.

    To pull the transformer + choke stack (welded to the lifting eye bar) I used a ladder and electric winch. That is my go-to hoisting set up, as janky as it might look. I use all kinds of ladders in all kinds of configurations for moving heavy stuff. Most of the time I use ratchet straps to lash things together, but this set up didn't need any. It was a simple straight A-frame with a center hoisting position on the top.

    I used an impact wrench to knock the bolts loose. The cart is held on from 4 bolts accessed underneath. These bolts are threaded in to the base body panel. This seems odd to me, the body panel doesn't seem that thick - although it is thicker than the side panels. Then the transformer is bolted down to the base body panel with another 4 bolts from the top down. None of the bolts were too stuck - the impact wrench made quick work out of them.

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    Here are some parts after scrubbing down with Royal Purple. Note the fan blade. The crank knob is loaded with surface rust so it needs a total scrape-down and re-paint. The square panel is the wiring access panel. This is going to be taken down to bare metal, also, and repainted. That is the part with the two diagrams on the other side.

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  5. #30
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    Looks like you could use a fresh coat of "Glyptal"
    Miller 211
    Hypertherm PM 45
    1961 Lincoln Idealarc 250
    HTP 221


    True Wisdom only comes from Pain.

  6. #31
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    What is Glyptal? I see it is "paint" but not sure of what might be special about it. I can look it up later when I get home.

    I got a spray painting set from harbor freight today to possibly try. I had some things to return so I was over there anyway. I will track down local powder coating to see what I can come up with. I am not sure the place I used before is still around. Not sure what to expect on availability/pricing but we'll see where things go.

    I wont get much work done today. Maybe more tomorrow. I did pick up more of the polycarbide wheels for the angle grinder also. That works the best of everything I tried for paint removal.

  7. #32
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    Glyptal is the brown insulating paint that is used on the transformer


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    Steve

    Miller Dialarc 250 (1990)
    Miller Maxstar 140 STR (2003)
    Lincoln SA200 Redface Pipeliner (1966)
    Lincoln MP210 (2015)
    Victor and MECO torches

  8. Likes DavidR8 liked this post
  9. #33
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkie1957 View Post
    Glyptal is the brown insulating paint that is used on the transformer


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    Quote Originally Posted by John T View Post
    Looks like you could use a fresh coat of "Glyptal"
    Thanks, guys. I learned something new.
    :

  10. #34
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkie1957 View Post
    Glyptal is the brown insulating paint that is used on the transformer


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Thanks spark
    Been busy all day.
    Glyptal is not cheap. $$


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    Miller 211
    Hypertherm PM 45
    1961 Lincoln Idealarc 250
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    True Wisdom only comes from Pain.

  11. #35
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkie1957 View Post
    Glyptal is the brown insulating paint that is used on the transformer
    Thanks for the info. Looks like I was mislead by my phone when I searched on it earlier. Back on the computer. Makes sense now.

    The electrical side works fine as far as I can tell. Is there a symptom that would be detectable which would point to the insulation being an issue on the transformer windings? I already did a resistance check between the primary and secondary and it welds fine on all 3 modes as far as I could tell with my quick 3 bead test.

    EDIT:

    I recall watching some of the SA200 restoration info and the dude in the motor shop used some kind of tool that measured the insulation properties of the alternator windings. I would be curious if that is the type of measurement that would be needed - and if so how it works. I don't have that type of tool, but perhaps understanding how the theory works I may be able to use a signal generator and oscilloscope if I knew what I was trying to do.
    Last edited by FlyFishn; 08-01-2020 at 08:16 PM.

  12. #36
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    I think you will be ok. It will make it look like it was when it dame come Cleveland if you spray it.


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    Steve

    Miller Dialarc 250 (1990)
    Miller Maxstar 140 STR (2003)
    Lincoln SA200 Redface Pipeliner (1966)
    Lincoln MP210 (2015)
    Victor and MECO torches

  13. #37
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    What are the chances the paint under the polarity label here is the original shade of red?

    What I am curious about is if I take that to a paint place to color match - will that come out looking original in that color? Or has it faded etc?

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  14. #38
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    Iím guessing that the original color was called cinnamon by Lincoln. Iím sure if you call Cleveland they can give you a paint code that an automotive paint dealer can cross over. The newer machines are a brighter red.


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    Steve

    Miller Dialarc 250 (1990)
    Miller Maxstar 140 STR (2003)
    Lincoln SA200 Redface Pipeliner (1966)
    Lincoln MP210 (2015)
    Victor and MECO torches

  15. #39
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    1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    At the end of the day I donít think itís really going to matter.

    I understand youíre being a little fussy now because you want to get the closest color.

    But just go for something as near as you can get by Eye.

    And when itís all put together it will look perfect.

    Nobody is going to criticize you for having the wrong shade of red.

    Actually I love the idea of painting it Miller blue....
    LMAO.!



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    Miller 211
    Hypertherm PM 45
    1961 Lincoln Idealarc 250
    HTP 221


    True Wisdom only comes from Pain.

  16. #40
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyFishn View Post
    What are the chances the paint under the polarity label here is the original shade of red?

    What I am curious about is if I take that to a paint place to color match - will that come out looking original in that color? Or has it faded etc?
    If it's been under a metal label, you can bet it's not going to fade like the outside paint.

  17. #41
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    Quote Originally Posted by shortfuse View Post
    If it's been under a metal label, you can bet it's not going to fade like the outside paint.

    It might not fade from light with no light getting to it, but my concern was more the age of the paint.

    I will see if I can get in touch with someone at Lincoln tomorrow (monday) to get some better guidance on the paint.

  18. #42
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    Progress today:

    I cleaned up the switches a bit. I did not polish them, just got most of the dust, grime, and crud cleaned up so they still look old and dirty but better than they did before. Today has been a busy day aside from working on the project, so not a whole lot of progress. My plan was to scrub down the leads, work clamp, and electrode clamp/stinger also. I did not have time to tackle all that. I will see about picking that up tomorrow.

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  19. #43
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    I don't have much from the day before - other than driving around hells half acre to track down paint I didn't do anything on the project.

    Today's update:

    I got the main side/top panel down to bare metal, as best I can get it. I decided to take the inside down instead of leaving the original paint. There are some rusty spots on all the panels - including the baffle inside (rear of the transformer with the shroud that the fan blows through) - so those spots, at least, should be taken down to bare metal and primed.

    The vent fins were a royal PITA. I got most of the paint off with a die grinder and 2" sanding disk. I did try a wire wheel on the angle grinder also. This helped but still didn't get all the paint in spots. So I went to a rotary tool and ball stone. Then I went to a round pinhead diamond tool - really tiny.

    In any event, now I have a technique to do the rest of the vent fins when I get there - as well as some of the hard to reach areas like the inside corners of the fan motor mount.

    Lotsa work but things are coming along.

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    There were a few small dents in the top. I hammered those out and sanded them. The spots aren't 100% perfect, but I don't think that will matter too much in the end. I will be curious to see how the primer looks once I get there. I might thicken up the primer in that spot and sand it a bit more before the top coat. We'll see.

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    We had a quart of some red paint from a project that never was used. I tested it to see how it compared just for the heck of it, but as you can see it is too far off - too much "red".

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    Last edited by FlyFishn; 08-04-2020 at 09:53 PM.

  20. #44
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    Autobody has a type of thicker primer that can be sanded to fill minor imperfections. Spot putty also works. Doing all the work to take it apart and strip and getting the right paint color, etc. but a not fixing the dents. It will bug you for the rest of your life.

  21. #45
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    Today's work:

    Power went out so I started the day getting generator power going (portable unit, not a stand-by = have to drag out, set up, yada, yada, yada). The outage was not more than 3 hours. By the time I got power going it was already a couple hours in to the outage.

    Aside from that - I got more panels sanded down. I am not an expert on painting, but my philosophy on the inside is to address the rust with sanding down. Aside from the rust - sand only to smooth out the accumulation of grime (that doesn't scrub out with cleaner) or original paint drips. If there isn't any rust I don't see the point in taking all the paint off and getting down to bare metal when I am going to coat it all with a few coats of paint anyway. Rust, to me, is another story - that needs to go.


    You can see in the pictures where I sanded the insides. There is a lot more bare metal exposed than really was necessary as more paint was removed in areas around those I was addressing. Not a concern. I am sure someone might comment as to the "poor job" of removing paint and that I need to get down to bare metal, but I am not too worried about it on the inside.

    The vent fins were hard to sand down. They were also the most in-need of sanding grime off, aside from the bottoms of the insides of the panels where there was more rust than anywhere on the panels.

    Yes, I am wearing a respirator doing all this.


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  22. #46
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    Looking good. You have more patience than me I freely admit. Thatís why I take sheet metal to the powder coated for sandblasting, baked on primer and paint.


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    Steve

    Miller Dialarc 250 (1990)
    Miller Maxstar 140 STR (2003)
    Lincoln SA200 Redface Pipeliner (1966)
    Lincoln MP210 (2015)
    Victor and MECO torches

  23. #47
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    My plan for getting paint didn't quite work out. What I am going to use is Rust-Oleum Farm & Implement paint in their "Massey Ferguson Red". It, as of right now, is only available in a spray/rattle can. The store I did find it at I thought had it in gallon sizes. The 3 sizes for that type of paint are spray can, quart, and gallon. However, that particular color is extremely difficult to get in a quart size. So I was going to "bite the bullet" and buy a whole gallon. However, when I got to the store it wasn't on the shelf.... After about 30-45 minutes with a guy at the store they were able to order it in a 2-pack of the quarts or a 2-pack of the gallons, not individual, and I would have to buy the whole pack. It has to do with the SDS (Safety Data Sheet) for the paint - each color and size has its' own SDS and because paint is hazmat the store has some kind of legal process held to the SDS info for the paints that they stock. So since they don't stock the color in the size they can't go through the insurance and legal hoops to get the SDS approved for that size/color paint for 1 can on the shelf.... Bureaucratic bull$hit. So I went to the local hardware store (again also, 2nd time for the day) and they can order the same paint in the same quart size quantity. They say they can do 1, but the guy that put my order in was a young guy that I don't think understood the bureaucratic logistics in stocking paint so I presume he is going to run in to the same problem. However, their price was a couple dollars less a quart so I told him what ever he has to do to get that paint in their next stock order to do it - regardless on whether or not I have to buy a 2 pack or if they can split it, I'll take the 2 pack if I have to. I just need the paint....

    Anywho - actual progress today was hammering out a few more dents and sanding. The dents are all the same ones as before, I just wanted to clean them up a bit more. I am not making them absolutely perfect right now. Part of my philosophy is to coat the primer heavy in those spots then sand them to improve the finish some more. We'll see how it goes.

    The paint was thinned at first with a 4:1 ratio of paint:mineral spirits. So the first batch was 5oz. That is where you see the drips. I think the paint was too thick as the droplets weren't atomizing very well. Air pressure was at 25psi. Since this was my first go at pneumatic gun spraying I have a bit to learn.

    The 5oz mix wasn't enough to get through the 2 panels so I mixed up another half of it. Then I added an extra 1/2oz of mineral spirits to thin the paint some more. That would be a 2:1 ratio. The droplets came out smaller and there was less running. So I will try that again next round.

    Once perfect my spraying technique with the primer then I can move on to the top coat. However, that won't be until next week. The primer right now is mostly to protect the bare metal from oxidizing more while sitting and to experiment.

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    Last edited by FlyFishn; 08-06-2020 at 11:43 PM.

  24. #48
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    Have you tried tractor supply for paint?


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    Miller 211
    Hypertherm PM 45
    1961 Lincoln Idealarc 250
    HTP 221


    True Wisdom only comes from Pain.

  25. #49
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    I have painted them with Rustoleum red and used the Tractor Supply hardener. It turned out good, I just hate to paint.


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    Steve

    Miller Dialarc 250 (1990)
    Miller Maxstar 140 STR (2003)
    Lincoln SA200 Redface Pipeliner (1966)
    Lincoln MP210 (2015)
    Victor and MECO torches

  26. #50
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkie1957 View Post
    I have painted them with Rustoleum red and used the Tractor Supply hardener. It turned out good
    Yeah the TS hardener (small can)
    Mixes with a full gallon.

    Kind of like this in your color of choice.

    I suppose you can measure out the Hardner for a quart.

    Once you add the Hardner it does have a quick shelflife.





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    Miller 211
    Hypertherm PM 45
    1961 Lincoln Idealarc 250
    HTP 221


    True Wisdom only comes from Pain.

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