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Thread: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

  1. #51
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    TSC is where I was trying to get the paint, yes. They only carry the Massey red in spray cans now apparently (Rust Oleum Farm & Implement, not Majic).

    As to the hardner - I am not sure if that works with Rust Oleum.

    I did get some info on the Majic paint. Apparently the color fades quicker than the Rust Oleum. I presume that is in reference to implements sitting outside most of their lives, so gear that sits inside might be a different story.

  2. #52
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    I know the hardener will work with Rustoleum. I painted my Lincoln SA200 6 years ago using smoke gray Rustoleum and TSC hardener. It turned out good, still looks good


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    Steve

    Miller Dialarc 250 (1990)
    Miller Maxstar 140 STR (2003)
    Lincoln SA200 Redface Pipeliner (1966)
    Lincoln MP210 (2015)
    Victor and MECO torches

  3. #53
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkie1957 View Post
    I know the hardener will work with Rustoleum. I painted my Lincoln SA200 6 years ago using smoke gray Rustoleum and TSC hardener. It turned out good, still looks good
    Same here. TSC hardner will work with many oil-based paints and I have used it with Rustoleum.

    Do heed the instructions/warnings and use an appropriate respirator, polyisocyanates are really nasty.

  4. #54
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    Absolutely wear a respirator when using it. If not you feel like you have a bad chest cold. I know that canít be good.


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    Steve

    Miller Dialarc 250 (1990)
    Miller Maxstar 140 STR (2003)
    Lincoln SA200 Redface Pipeliner (1966)
    Lincoln MP210 (2015)
    Victor and MECO torches

  5. #55
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    1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkie1957 View Post
    Absolutely wear a respirator when using it. If not you feel like you have a bad chest cold. I know that canít be good.


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    Wow
    Yeah thats concerning... especially with the ďotherĒ respiratory thing thatís been going around.

    I take a lot more care now that Iím older but I guess thatís the way it goes ... right?

    Back in the day Iíve painted a few things with no respirator
    Usually outdoors so I thought I was safe.

    Was still blowing paint boogers the next day ... lol

    I knew a guy who painted cars and used to spray Imron with no Respirator.

    Not sure what became of him.

    Probably pushing up daisies right now

    I donít even think they make Imron Paint anymore because it was so bad for you


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    Last edited by John T; 08-07-2020 at 03:17 PM.
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  6. #56
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    Quote Originally Posted by John T View Post
    Wow

    I don’t even think they make Imron Paint anymore because it was so bad for you
    Imron is still available and still the gold standard for boats and airplanes. Dupont, however, did sell the product line to another company several years ago.

    Part of what makes Imron so toxic is the isocyanate content which is also what is in TSC hardner...don't let the little bottle fool you...

  7. #57
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    Endura urethane paint is made for the harshest environments but is also about the harshest health wise. The proper respirator and PPE is critical.

    https://www.endurapaint.com/

  8. #58
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    Update for today:

    I raced daylight at the end and didn't get any pictures in. I split the cart, base plate, and transformer stack again. I brushed down the transformer stack pretty good with wire brushes to get the crud off. Then I moved to the cart. That is as far as I got today. I am not sure how deep of a cleaning I want to give to the cart, axle, wheels, etc. I do want to paint it but I am not too concerned with the results so long as the paint prevents rust. I did find the top plate to the cart (the plate the welder bolts to) had some deeper rust on it. I used a polycarbonate wheel on my angle grinder to get the paint and surface rust off. However, the finish on the plate didn't look right so I went to sanding with a die grinder and all I got was a ton of orange dust. So I got out the grinding wheel and went to town on it with a hard grind to bust through the rust. That was the thickest rust I've come across now. The bottom of the inside of the front and rear panels wasn't as bad, but still a good bit.

    I am hoping to get through the grinding down of the last 3 panels (wiring access, outside of the front panel, and the bottom panel) and get things with at least 1 coat of primer this weekend. We're in for a few days of rain in the forecast come Monday and that isn't going to be a good thing for painting outside. My top coat paint won't be here until supposedly wednesday, though, so that is something I can't really work around too well.

  9. #59
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    The name of the game at this stage of the project is... Beat the Rain.

    We're forecast to have a rainy week with an incoming cold front and I can't paint inside so I'm racing the daylight and the clock to at least get a coat of primer on everything. That is a hard row to hoe.

    I did make some head way today with the outside of the front panel, wiring access door (both sides), and I brushed off the base panel. The inside of the front I sanded down a few days ago. I am not going to knock that all the way down to bare metal. I am going to prime right over top of it. The wiring access panel with the documents on it I figured I would take down to the metal as I had access and there were enough rust spots in there (actually - even underneath the documents that I cant get to, unfortunately) to take care of. To get the vent fins I used a 2" sanding disk on a die grinder again, then what I couldn't get I used a tiny rotary tool diamond ball. Very time consuming = the results thus far don't really explain the depth of the time consumption. That is the conundrum - am I going to beat the rainy period?

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  10. #60
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    I got a lot further today than I anticipated. I got the last of the panels scraped and prepped for paint by about 6:30pm. So I decided to go ahead and do some painting also.

    The only main parts that haven't been painted yet are the cart and wiring access. I think I have a bit more prep to do on the cart yet and the wiring access door needs some care with the document preservation. I layered some news paper over the documents the other day, but that wasn't a precise paint line. That will be the task for tomorrow - figuring up how I want to protect the document area so I can paint around it right up to the edges.

    I didn't get as much paint dripping this round. I bumped the pressure up to about 38PSI and mixed the paint to a 3:1 ratio (3 parts paint to 1 part mineral spirits to thin). The droplets were a lot finer. I am not sure adding any more mineral spirits is a good idea as that seems like it will make the paint run more?


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    I decided to work on the base plate a lot more today to knock the rust down as much as I could muster. the 4 round depressions are the feet that bolt up to the cart base plate. The inside of those I used a rotary tool with a stone to grind out. Those 4 spots and the bottom inside of the blower fan motor mount were real buggers to clean out - rusty and hard to get to.



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    Last edited by FlyFishn; 08-10-2020 at 12:19 AM.

  11. #61
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    And one more picture. This is the opposite side of the baffle, I'll call it. That is what separates the back compartment with the diode block and front compartment with the transformer stack as well as the cowling for the blower fan to conduct air through the transformer - that is the part hanging off the fan circle opening.

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  12. #62
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkie1957 View Post


    Underneath the top end of the amperage scale near the bottom of the cabinet looks like there is a crease/dent. Was that there prior to painting? Or was that after-the-fact?

    I have a few more dents in my cabinet that are showing through the primer that I am contemplating on trying to hammer out. The bottom left upright side of the front cabinet, left and lower than the work cable mount, appears to be flattened out somehow also (your picture looks like the right side of the cabinet there could be the same way). I might get my hydraulic press out and rig up a method of pushing a curve back in to it with either a 1" or 3/4" drive socket that has a similar OD as the radius the cabinet should have. I think I have a socket that big... As to the other blemishes - I am not a sheet metal expert, but if I had an english wheel I think that would make quick work out of the dings. All I have is a ball peen hammer, flat hammer, and a plate of steel to tap against for those. Not quite "ideal". I don't care about the primer getting messed up at this point - its just primer and quite frankly - it actually makes finding the dings that much easier.

  13. #63
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    Iím sure it was prior to powder coating. This process is not for units with beat up sheet metal. The only thing you can do is hammer it out as best as possible. No body filler can be used do the heat of the baking process. That particular area, along with the hood are the most common place for dents. The area below the amp scale also is usually prone to surface rust. My personal Idealarc250 is a 1989 in like new condition with original paint. Itís showing some bubbles in the finish but no dents. At some point it will be a great candidate for powder coat. Here are some pics




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    Steve

    Miller Dialarc 250 (1990)
    Miller Maxstar 140 STR (2003)
    Lincoln SA200 Redface Pipeliner (1966)
    Lincoln MP210 (2015)
    Victor and MECO torches

  14. #64
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    Hereís one of the interior of the machine




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    Steve

    Miller Dialarc 250 (1990)
    Miller Maxstar 140 STR (2003)
    Lincoln SA200 Redface Pipeliner (1966)
    Lincoln MP210 (2015)
    Victor and MECO torches

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  16. #65
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkie1957 View Post
    Here’s one of the interior of the machine
    Excellent!!! Thanks for the pics.

    It looks like you hard-wire that unit when it runs?

    It looks like the diodes are different and the polarity switch is a bit different but other than that the guts still look pretty hefty.

  17. #66
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    It has a 50 amp plug on it. In the early 80ís they switched to the plug type rectifier diodes and stopped using the selenium type. You have to update to this if you have a failure in an older machine.


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    Steve

    Miller Dialarc 250 (1990)
    Miller Maxstar 140 STR (2003)
    Lincoln SA200 Redface Pipeliner (1966)
    Lincoln MP210 (2015)
    Victor and MECO torches

  18. #67
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    Everything has been primed for the most part now. I am still ironing out my techniques with the painting. I think the ratio I have now - 3:1 (3 paint:1 mineral spirits) is still the good mix at about 38psi air pressure. The drips I am getting are from operator error - putting down too much paint at once. That is hard to gauge as it is easy to overcoat areas 3-4 times moving the sprayer around to get to different places. When the paint builds up that is where things drip....

    I hung the transformer stack from a single chain for the painting. I hoisted it with the winch first then transferred it to the chain and removed the winch so it didn't get paint splatters. The ladder I am using is a commercial grade Little Giant multi-position (not the hardware store variant). When I initially set it up I forgot one of the latches. I noticed it after I had taken out the winch and wheeled it to the other side of the yard... So before I got going I had to set everything back up again, drop the transformer stack to the ground, fix the ladder, then repeat the hoisting and transfer to the chain. Anywho - it worked well. You would be surprised what all I have moved with ladders and a winch. As sketchy as it looks the set up works really well.

    Now as the rain is in the forecast (and as I type the first of it is already here - heavy rain) I can work on some smaller things between rain showers if I have to work outside or just keep on keepin' on in the garage.

    I have had some people around interested in what I'm up to. Usually its the little kids that want to know whats going on. Though, I did have a nice conversation with an older guy today that was impressed with the project, first off, and secondly that I knew how to run the darn thing. Apparently his coordination with a stick welder and non-auto-dimming face shield left a lot to be desired. I didn't tell him I cheat with a modern auto-dimming one (its a Miller, whoops did I just say the M word in a Lincoln forum?)...

    Fun day and some good progress.



    The cross bar on top is what I hang parts off of to paint - one on each side. This was just before I transferred the stack back to the winch. I decided to put the base plate and stack back on the cart again because of space issues. With the stack on the hand truck I had 2 carts with parts to deal with and that is a real challenge right now to fit where it needs to fit...
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    All the parts I primed today. The large top/side panel to the top/right of the frame was coated the other day. So this round today was a good thick 2nd coat. I am running low on primer... I may only have 1 more round left in the can. I've been running 6oz of paint to 2 oz of mineral spirits the last couple rounds then one I added 1.5 oz paint to .5oz mineral spirits to make it through a bit further. In any event, the primer paint is pretty low. That I can get locally. The top coat is another story - but I only have to do the outsides so that is probably 1/2 the surface area.
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  19. #68
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    Iím ready for you to start burning rods with that thing!


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    Steve

    Miller Dialarc 250 (1990)
    Miller Maxstar 140 STR (2003)
    Lincoln SA200 Redface Pipeliner (1966)
    Lincoln MP210 (2015)
    Victor and MECO torches

  20. #69
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    My document preservation method didn't go very smoothly, unfortunately. I used masking tape to outline the docs then put newspaper over top of it. The masking tape pulled off the top layer of paper from the docs - including the ink - in spots. I tried.

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  21. #70
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkie1957 View Post
    It has a 50 amp plug on it. In the early 80’s they switched to the plug type rectifier diodes and stopped using the selenium type. You have to update to this if you have a failure in an older machine.
    I'm not too worried about the diodes or caps. I know the parts aren't available, but there are suitable replacement parts available. Personally, I like the bolt-on flange mount diodes - they are easier to replace. As for caps - I would think modern caps would be round electrolytics, not the oval cans. I do have a set of oval can caps from an old Motorola Micor repeater power supply to mess around with, but I doubt they are the same values as what are in the machine and if I was going to replace caps (and diodes) I'd want new ones.

  22. #71
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    Well actually for most home shops the power factor capacitors are not of any value. The actually use more current at idle than a non capacitor unit. In fabrication shops where they are used continuously they limit some current draw at higher settings. If you keep the power factor caps in a home shop just donít idle it longer than necessary to cool out after a long weld. Shut it off
    Watch this comparison video




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    Steve

    Miller Dialarc 250 (1990)
    Miller Maxstar 140 STR (2003)
    Lincoln SA200 Redface Pipeliner (1966)
    Lincoln MP210 (2015)
    Victor and MECO torches

  23. #72
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    There are 2 cap boxes on my machine. One is a double cap with 3 terminals. They are visible in the earlier pictures I posted of the interior as well as the break down of the panels.

  24. #73
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    The power factor caps are on either side of the fan behind the baffle panel. On the transformer side of the panel on the polarity switch side is another cap that all Idealarcs have


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    Steve

    Miller Dialarc 250 (1990)
    Miller Maxstar 140 STR (2003)
    Lincoln SA200 Redface Pipeliner (1966)
    Lincoln MP210 (2015)
    Victor and MECO torches

  25. #74
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    What are you hiding in most of your pics?

  26. #75
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    Quote Originally Posted by Welder Dave View Post
    What are you hiding in most of your pics?
    Teh rockit-launchers, silly!

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