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Thread: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

  1. #76
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyFishn View Post
    There are 2 cap boxes on my machine. One is a double cap with 3 terminals. They are visible in the earlier pictures I posted of the interior as well as the break down of the panels.
    I viewed your pictures and I do not see the PFC's on your unit? Are you certain they are in the pics?

    I have been enjoying your build, keep up the good work!

  2. #77
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    Quote Originally Posted by M7MetalWorks View Post
    I viewed your pictures and I do not see the PFC's on your unit? Are you certain they are in the pics?

    I have been enjoying your build, keep up the good work!
    I just went back and looked and I don't see any power factor caps either. Here's what they look like and their location



    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Steve

    Miller Dialarc 250 (1990)
    Miller Maxstar 140 STR (2003)
    Lincoln SA200 Redface Pipeliner (1966)
    Lincoln MP210 (2015)
    Victor and MECO torches

  3. #78
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    Quote Originally Posted by M7MetalWorks View Post
    I viewed your pictures and I do not see the PFC's on your unit? Are you certain they are in the pics?

    I have been enjoying your build, keep up the good work!
    It does NOT have power factor caps. There are actually 3 capacitor units, not 2.

    The caps are in other parts of the circuit. See the yellow arrows below.


    EDIT: This is number 3. The schematic shows a polarized cap and this, I believe, is the only polarized cap....

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    This is number 2.

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    EDIT: This is number 1. The blue arrow shows the resistor.

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    Last edited by FlyFishn; 08-11-2020 at 10:25 AM.

  4. #79
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    Quote Originally Posted by M7MetalWorks View Post
    I have been enjoying your build, keep up the good work!
    I must be a bit slow... I just put 2 and 2 together and realized who you were. Thanks for chiming in! Good to see you over here, and likewise - keep up the good work.

  5. #80
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    The small one with the three terminals is a High frequency bypass capacitor.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Miller 211
    Hypertherm PM 45
    1961 Lincoln Idealarc 250
    HTP 221


    True Wisdom only comes from Pain.

  6. #81
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    Not much progress today. I slowed down a bit, did some other things, and took a load off for a bit. I did get the adjustment knob/crank sanded down though so I did make some headway.

    Tomorrow (fingers crossed) is when I get my top coat paint. As to if I will get to do any painting tomorrow, I am not sure. At this point I would say it is not too likely that I will until Thursday. I have a few other things that I can/should do on the project. I will also have to keep an eye on the forecast. They changed it to be clear the next few days, but there again being a weather forecaster is the only job you can be wrong half the time with and still have a job so I am not putting too much faith in the forecast. They did at least call the cold front correctly - it did come through and we did get rain, just not much and so far it doesn't look like the solid 3-4 days of rain that kicked the project in to high-gear late last week...

    One day at a time.

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  7. #82
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    After banging my head against a wall, driving around hells half acre, and bouncing between vendors, then waiting a week... I finally have paint - 1 quart of Rust Oleum Farm & Implement paint in Massey Ferguson Red. Why this isn't easier to get, aside from in a spray/rattle can, I have no idea. But.. its here so that's all that matters at the moment.

    Back to my regularly scheduled program. Straightening the front panel a bit today. I am hoping to get some painting done tomorrow, though I do have some more primer to put down before I get to top coating.

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  8. #83
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    More for today:

    I got my hydraulic press out and put a curve back in the bottom left of the front panel. I used a socket down inside the bezel then pressed the socket in to a board. I put way too much pressure on it and caused a bulge on the outside front. So I had to hammer it back in. All in all, the spot looks better now than it did, but the metal isn't totally smooth there. If I had an english wheel I could roll it out a lot nicer.... but since I don't I will leave it be and build up primer over the spot then sand it back. I think that will take care of the smoothness issue.

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    The bulge is visible here where the worn off paint is. That was one edge of the socket, then if you look to the left of that a couple inches you can see another slighter bulge that doesn't have worn off paint.

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    This is after I tapped out the spots and sanded it a bit. I think there are a few more layers of paint this needs to get back to smooth after sanding more.

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    Last edited by FlyFishn; 08-12-2020 at 08:30 PM.

  9. #84
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    I also got the adjustment knob/crank primed with gray etching primer.

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    The little bit of silver is some remnants of cold galvanizing compound. I sprayed the knob over a cardboard sheet that I sprayed cold galvanizing compound on and had painted the back of the knob first, so when it sat down on the galvanize stuff a little bit of it stuck. It should brush off - it is pretty chalky stuff.

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    Last edited by FlyFishn; 08-12-2020 at 08:34 PM.

  10. #85
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    Paint won't cover up flaws in the sheet metal. It will accentuate them.

  11. #86
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    Back to the capacitor discussion... I just came across this tidbit in another thread:
    Quote Originally Posted by papaharley03 View Post

    p.s. That black wire running from the capacitor to the polarity switch is a resistor wire. It has a set resistance. Don't replace it if it looks bad, with just any old piece of wire. Lincoln has those if you need one and they aren't very expensive.
    I looked at the terminals on that cap trying to figure out how to disassemble things and figured the old solder joints weren't good to try and mess with so I unbolted the black wire from the switch above and cut the red wire as I didn't see where it went (with enough wire on the cap to splice it back together).

    I am glad I didn't touch the black wire, not knowing anything different I just figured it was all wire. However, looking at the schematic that now makes perfect sense because the big oval cap is the only polarized cap and the location of that polarized cap in the schematic is in series with a resistor. There is no "resistor" component on the machine, instead it is the wire itself = the set resistance papahraley refers to.

    Lots of nuggets of info buried in this forum. Unfortunately, it all being easy to find and "right there" isn't always the case. In this case - I was honestly just looking for what the regular color of the control crank/knob should be on an idealarc 250. I've seen various grays, silvers, chrome even, and black. The thread that info on the wire came from was one that had pictures to reference that I was curious about but also got to reading and there was the tip on the wire resistor.

  12. #87
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    Lotsa work today, but little in the way of pictures.

    I made another run to Tractor Supply earlier in the day to get more primer. I was low on the 1st quart so I figured I better have some more on hand before I start in to the day. That was a very good decision.

    While I was there I picked up a rattle can of primer + filler to hit some of the spots with imperfections. The idea I had was the "filler" aspect would be thicker than regular primer to fill in some of the imperfections. This worked OK. In fact. what I probably should do is hit a few target spots with another round of the primer+filler early tomorrow before I set things up. After 2 hours in good temps it can be dry sanded.

    Before I sprayed the primer+filler I did a bit more work to tap out the imperfections in the metal so what i was using the primer + filler on was a bit better to start with. In the end I think the results will be pretty good. The main spot was the bottom left bezel that had been flattened out. So between the press, hammering, tapping, and the filler it already is a lot better than it was before.

    I didn't get any pictures of the sheet metal work or the priming. There wasn't really anything new - just more work of the same. However, that is what took the time today. My goal was to get everything ready for paint them mix up a bigger batch of primer. I did a 9oz primer + 3oz mineral spirits batch the 1st round - that is 3 more oz of paint than I've done before (and about as much as I'd want to load up in my spray gun) so I could hit some key parts hard. I still didn't have enough. I mixed up another 1.5oz paint + .5oz mineral spirits to finish up the last part. Though, that really still wasn't even enough.

    Another tidbit is I was trying to prevent dripping today. That didn't work too well but I am getting better I think. The idea I came up with was to spray very light, let dry from shiny to matte, then spray lightly another time, and repeat. To do this I needed to have multiple parts lined up to paint so I could keep the spray gun in use. You can't let it sit or the nozzle will clog up. It was quite a dance. I think the top coat is going to be a real challenge for me at the rate I'm going. I am only going to paint the outside parts and leave the inside primer so that means a lot less surface area to paint. I am not sure how that is going to come out in practice with my theory of the light coatings.

    I also primed (again, 2nd coat) and painted the crank knob today. I used a metallic silver. What are everyone's honest thoughts on the color/affect? My thoughts are that I don't like the metallic. I wanted a smoother finish but wasn't coming up with much in the way of "silver" that, to me, matched what I have seen on some of these machines - in pictures. There are several variations of "gray" I've seen, but the original paint I've seen on some appears more of a "silver" than "gray".

    The paint seems too "rough" to me. I suppose I will have to get it on the machine when things are done and see how it looks before I get too negative about it. I suppose if the metallic flake was a lot more fine/smaller it wouldn't come across as "rough" like I am describing.


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    Last edited by FlyFishn; 08-14-2020 at 12:04 AM.

  13. #88
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    I decided to do another day of priming to clean up some spots I wasn't happy with on the panels - mostly drips, but there were a few thin spots that needed hit again. So I bit the bullet and held off on top coating for a while. This weekend is going to be busy so I won't get any time in on the project, so top coat will have to wait likely until next week.

    On the up side of things - I did change the pattern adjustment on the sprayer today - from a stripe fan spray to a round circle spray. With this configuration I was able to get the paint down with no drips or runny spots. That was really good to see. I also used 3/4 the mineral spirits I did before to thicken the paint just a bit. That tweaks the ratio to 4:1 - 4 parts paint to 1 part mineral spirits. I like the result, for the most part. The paint applied nicer. The one tweak I want to work on is to broaden the circle back out to a bit wider elliptical pattern so I can cover a wider area. I did try to adjust the pattern knob a bit but it wasn't working too well.

    That reminds me - that is one part I didn't take out of the sprayer - the pin/plunger that do the pattern adjusting. That might be a problem. I haven't had it out since I did the initial first cleaning so the several times I've used it already have probably gummed it up pretty good. Hopefully I can restore it.

    The sanded stripes are where paint dripped before. I scraped the drips down with a knife then sanded them.

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    And some of the finished result - smooth, non-drippy paint.

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  14. #89
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    Itís time well spent. The prep work is the most critical. I donít have the patience so thatís why I go to a powder coater. Canít wait to see it burning rods


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Steve

    Miller Dialarc 250 (1990)
    Miller Maxstar 140 STR (2003)
    Lincoln SA200 Redface Pipeliner (1966)
    Lincoln MP210 (2015)
    Victor and MECO torches

  15. #90
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    A few more pictures:

    If you look close at the next 2 pictures you can see the striations in the primer from the circle pattern on the sprayer. I am thinking flattening that to a broader oval will help with that. I hope so - once I get to the top coats that will make a difference.

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    This is the hardner from Tractor Supply. It is for their Majic paint brand, not Rust Oleum. However, I have heard that it works with Rust Oleum as well. I will give it a shot on the top coats.

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    Last note - I have used close to 1.5 quarts of primer thus far. I think if you were an expert painter you could get by with 1 quart, but if anyone is tackling this type of project as I am with not much painting experience I would suggest having 2 quarts of primer on hand.

    As to the top coat color - in my case I am only intending to spray the exterior parts. So the surface area of all the panels that face inside does not add to the top coat consumption. With that having been said, I anticipate having plenty of paint in the 1 quart I do have - and enough to make a thick top coat.
    Last edited by FlyFishn; 08-14-2020 at 06:40 PM.

  16. #91
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyFishn View Post
    That reminds me - that is one part I didn't take out of the sprayer - the pin/plunger that do the pattern adjusting. That might be a problem. I haven't had it out since I did the initial first cleaning so the several times I've used it already have probably gummed it up pretty good. Hopefully I can restore it.
    I took the pattern adjustment plunger out today and its as clean as a whistle. So thats a good thing. I will play around with that some more before I get to the top coat.

    There are 2 size tips/needles in the kit for the larger spray gun. I've been using the 1.8mm. It also has a 1.4mm. I am thinking the 1.4mm might be worth a shot. I suppose that is going to be a bit of a challenge to swap out while spraying as the needle blocks the fluid flow = removing the needle would have no way to block the paint from the container to hold back while trying to swap the parts. So that might not be such a good idea...

    Anywho, looks like the spray gun is OK to keep running.

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    This is the set I have:
    https://www.harborfreight.com/air-to...kit-94572.html

    For the price I'd say it is well worth the purchase. Add a 20% off coupon to the mix and its $40 for the 2 sprayers. Thats a pretty good deal.

  17. #92
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    Today was supposed to be the day I switched over to top coat red paint. However, I flipped the cart over to position it for painting the bottom first and realized there were some spots I missed with primer. So I started off with putting down more primer. I also did a couple of the small brackets (the band around the polarized cap in the supressor circuit as well as the bracket for the temp sensor).

    After I got things primed I went over the panels with sand paper to clean up some of the drips from before with the primer. I figured I am never going to be this deep under the paint so I better iron things out as best I can now.

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  18. #93
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    Before I switched to the top coat I needed to do some careful measuring with the hardner. The ratio of it is 8oz to 1 gallon of paint. That comes down to a 1/16:1 ratio. Doing the math it comes down to 1/2 teaspoon per ounce of paint.

    So what I did was I took a 1/2 teaspoon measuring scoop and used a straw to drop water in the scoop. Once I got the level of the straw down in the water right I drew a line on there.

    The way it works is I drop the straw in to the hardner, plug the top end with my finger, then move it to the container I am mixing the paint in to, then release my finger off the top to release the hardner. It actually works really well. The hardner does NOT eat the straw plastic - I figured it probably would, but it actually works very well with no dissolving of the plastic.

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    Here are some pictures of what I have coated so far. The paint mix isn't very good. I think the hardner throws it off a bit. I used the 4:1 paint ratio to mineral spirits. The paint did not atomize very well so I am going to to a 3:1 mix tomorrow and see how it goes.

    By the time I got to the top coat it was well in to the evening and the bugs were out. So there are some bugs stuck to the paint.... I will have to scrape and sand a bit to iron out those spots before I put more paint down.

    I was also very careful to not apply too much paint to prevent dripping. The only spot I got some running was on the underside of the base plate. I can live with that - on the bottom no one will ever see it.

    I sprayed the edges of the panels first. Then I let the paint set up a bit. Then I came back around and sprayed the front faces lightly. I let that set up a bit then went back over everything lightly.

    If you look close the paint appears "textured". I attribute this to the "thick" mix = larger droplets. I don't particularly care for it, but I am not sure I want to sand it much yet. I am thinking a coat with finer atomized droplets over top of it might smooth it out some. We'll see.

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  19. #94
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    A couple more pictures:

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    Last but not least.... Here is a color match screen shot comparing digital representations of the original paint under the polarity switch, the paint color from the manufacturer, and the paint color of one of the panels I painted today - albeit in low light with a flash. There is some variation in the color, but some of that might be due to lighting and the camera. Unfortunately, I don't have any panels where there is original paint left to see how close the paint is. They have all been prepped and primed. I am happy with the color so far, though.

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  20. #95
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    I don't think more paint will smooth it out and certainly won't get rid of the bugs. Unfortunately I think some more sanding is in your future. Is there anywhere you could take it inside to paint?

  21. #96
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    More sanding and painting today. When I looked over the parts this morning I decided to just sand everything more. There were some paint runs showing through the paint from the primer also so I tackled those as best I could. I am making do with what I got here - tools, equipment, and the location = outside. That means I have all the joys of dealing with the conditions outside as well - wind, bugs, dust, and anything else the wind blows around (grass, etc). It most certainly isn't ideal but it i what it is. If my resources were better the results would be better also. To that point - I am doing the best I can with what I have. Unfortunately, that is falling short of my expectations in a lot of ways (the sheet metal work and the paint work). It is, however, a million times better than it was and it will still look good when its done.

    I did put down a good bit of paint today. I did 2 rounds of 9oz of paint (plus 3oz mineral spirits and 4.5 teaspoons of hardner). Now I am running low on the good stuff... I think I have enough to finish with some touch up work and a few other key areas, but it is going to be close.

    I am getting pretty excited seeing the red paint coming along... I can't wait to get this all together again. However, I am not going to rush it. That has been the theme thus far as it is - work through things at the pace the things dictate. Painting has taken a long time because of that - fixing issues as I go. Tomorrow is going to be much the same.

    Here is a shot of the "texture" of the 1st round of top coat yesterday with the bigger droplets.

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    Did I mention how much I HATE bugs getting stuck in the paint? What a PITA.

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    Some sanding work.

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  22. #97
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    One more shot of the sanded panels prepped for more paint.

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    Some top coat shots. Lets not put the cart before the... uh... welder. I think that's how it goes. Anywho, heres the cart.

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    For some reason the pictures I took of the main side/top panel make the paint look "purple". I am not sure if I got a setting out of whack on the phone camera by accident, but this is all the same paint. If you look at the grass it looks a little washed out in color also - so definitely something with the camera.

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  23. #98
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

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    Last but not least for tonight - a color matching screen shot with what the color of a panel is in good light. I'd say this is a pretty darn good match. Passes my inspection with flying colors. The part on the top is the picture from today, left is the stock factory color representation, and right is the original paint under the polarity switch face plate.

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  24. #99
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    Today was a day of trying to fix more blemishes in the paint. I didn't do too bad. I think I did just fine dealing with the blemishes underneath the paint. However, the kicker to it is the paint I put over top to hide the fixes now is what shows. So what I need to do is do another entire top coat so the paint mix is the same and cures evenly across the panels. Unfortunately, I am down to about 2-3 ounces of paint left and I don't think that is going to be enough. So I will try to order another quart of top coat.

    At this point, though, I am going to go ahead and assemble the machine. I will contemplate painting the outside of the assembled machine instead of breaking down in to panels again. I think I can do it, but I will make that call later after I analyze the scenario of the assembled machine.


    I did clean up the screws some. I've had this bucket of carb cleaner + dipping basket for years so I figured I'd put it to use again. It did not shine up the screws like I had hoped, but it did de-gunk them a lot better than they started off.

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    Here are some of the paint drips from before that I addressed today:

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  25. #100
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    Re: 1966 Round Top Idealarc 250

    More runny paint:

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    I scraped the line with a knife first then sanded it. I think it worked pretty well, again minus the difference in paint showing on top now.

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    Things starting to come together:

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    Where I stopped tonight. It is starting to look like a welder again.

    This is also a good time to analyze the color of the crank knob. I am thinking it might actually look OK. I will let it soak for a bit and see what I come up with. What are your thoughts? My concern before was that the metallic paint made the knob look too "rough". The overall color seems OK after getting it on and matched up with the red on the panel. The metallic affect doesn't seem as off to me as before.

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