Note to tank builders

[farmersammm]

I've done it, I hate to admit.................................Built a tank without adequate means of draining water from the bottom This reservoir has no bottom bung to drain the water. They simply didn't incorporate it into the design. And...........it's dangerous to try to retrofit it to have a bottom drain......involves cutting, and welding, on a tank that's full of hydrocarbon fumes. Not in my repertoire, despite what the Internet experts recommend. Look up how many people have died inspecting the holds of supertankers that were supposedly purged, or the number of people dead/injured by introducing heat/sparks to highly combustible environments. I DO NOT WELD ON TANKS THAT HAVE BEEN IN SERVICE. If ya don't believe me...............I've seen plenty of evidence to back me up...........this is oil country where I live.

This particular reservoir hasn't been opened up, to my knowledge, for near on 50yrs. The fluid last got changed about 20yrs ago. (A real tribute to modern oil, and modern rubber compounds that don't decay over the years)

Anyways.............the high pressure, and draw, hose had to be replaced. No alternative but to drain the reservoir. It holds about 20+ gallons.



The oil that came out was milky, or at least cloudy. This is the last of the bottom that hadn't drained. This can cause some serious problems for pumps, and hydraulic motors. It might be noted...........there was a bit of metal flakes in the bottom...........not bad, but a reminder that stuff wears.

[Fnord5]

Why not bolt a drain valve? It looks like you can reach the bottom, a nice oil resistant rubber gasket, should be good to go without having to worry about fire/explosions

[farmersammm]

Why not bolt a drain valve? It looks like you can reach the bottom, a nice oil resistant rubber gasket, should be good to go without having to worry about fire/explosions

Not a bad idea. I thought about it. Drill a hole, tap it, and put a plug in.

I'm afraid of ANYTHING that might throw a spark. Stupid maybe, but I'm still here laying out purely stupid advice for other members of the forum. This crap scares me.

K'kins said the same. "Twenty years, about a gallon or two of bad oil. forget it...........I don[t care to go to a funeral") I can believe her, she's seen this sorta crap at her job. AND SHE NEEDS SOMEBODY TO COLLECT THE GARBAGE...............SO SHE'S GOTTA BE RIGHT

[12V71]

Boil it good with a hot water/steam cleaner, suck out the remnants and be good to go for 20 plus more years. Make a venturi type vacuum cleaner that runs from compressed air to get the stuff in the corners.

[shortfuse]

Samm, you could drill the hole for a drain like Fnord5 suggested if you kept the reservoir full enough with water above the hole line inside and misted or ran water over the outside while drilling (like dust suppression on drilling concrete and bricks). That would suppress sparks and lube the hole cutter at the same time. Drill SLOWLY.

[12V71]

The drain is a great idea... Problem is most hydraulic fluids hold water in suspension, when it does drop out it creates that jello like stuff that will not come through a drain. If you look at most well designed hydraulic tanks they have a 6 inch clean out opening with a bolted cover near the bottom so you can scrape the jello out. Been there, done that with quite a bit of heavy equipment.

[12345678910]

It seems like the top cover doesn't keep the water out either.

[oldandslow]

Being an old retired oilfield welder I'm just going to shake my head about this thread and go on about my business. Dangerous it ain't.

[MilitiaMetals]

Oil/diesel....I have patched leaking tanks with contents left in before because there wasn't an option, I keep the lid off for venting expansion induced pressure. Once again only do I do this on OIL or DIESEL.

I'd cut a 2" hole in it underneath with a holesaw, clean it out, then weld on a re-pad and weld in a 1" bung

[farmersammm]

Got it all put back together, and it's time to fill it.

There's no such thing as a straight 20W motor oil anymore. Probably haven't made it for more than 30+yrs I'd reckon (I might be wrong). Anyways it's not available...........period. Last time I got oil for this machine, I was able to buy some NOS 20W from a local oil distributor.......some old Quaker State still packaged in a metal can. Was fun opening enough quart cans to fill a 20 gallon reservoir

Yeah, this thing does specify 20W motor oil. I know they had, and used, regular hydraulic oils when this thing was built.........matter of fact, the Oliver specs 10 weight hyd. oil (ISO 32) in the hydraulic reservoir, 80W gear oil in the transmission. But, for reasons known only to Hesston, they clearly state 20W motor oil for the hydraulic pump/motor.

I called Agco, who now either owns Hesston, or supplies the parts, and they called me back to say that you can run virtually any kind of oil in the thing. I gotta call BS on that. I'm thinking they really don't know what kind of oil to run in it. This thing is circa early 70's.

I have another identical piece of machinery that I run Trans Hydraulic Oil in. It's been ok I guess. Only gets run about 16hr per year. It has started to make some sorta noise that I can't trace to either the hydraulic motor/pump, or the mechanicals (bearings etc.). My first thought was the Trans Hydraulic, being as it's not the recommended oil...........dunno. Only makes the snapping noise under load, and it actually affects the way the tractor runs, so it's momentarily overloading the motor on the tractor when it acts up. Anyways, that's an issue for another day.

There are substantial differences between motor oil, and hydraulic oil.

https://www.equipmentworld.com/under...draulic-fluid/

If y'all don't care to read the link, which a lot of guys probably don't,, or won't The major difference is the way the different oils handle water contamination. Motor oil emulsifies the water, hydraulic oil drops it out.

This is an issue, A BIG ISSUE. The tank has no "draw". It's the only term I can think of to describe it. Means a space at the bottom of any tank that might have water in it. Most buyers won't buy oil if the "draw" is too high. Producer has to go out and suck the water out before a tank truck will pick it up. K'kins also mentions, occasionally, that they sometimes have to "roll" the tank.........although I don't really know what it means (she's asleep right now),, but it involves chemicals that are used to get rid of (water??) at the bottom of the tank, or stratified water in the oil. If I'm wrong, somebody who knows can chime in, and give the correct definition for the process.

Anyways.............the cover you see in the above pics is actually the oil outlet. It's at the bottom of the tank, with only about 2" of "draw" beneath it. Not a lot of space for water to collect. This makes it, in real world terms, almost impossible to provide a drain for water. 2" of water ain't a lot. This might be the reason they specified motor oil in the thing..........the water doesn't drop out to the bottom of the tank. So, because of this, there's little danger of taking a slug of water into the pump. The water is emulsified, and moves with the oil on a molecular level. Which might explain why the 20yr oil I drained looked actually pretty good for as long as it's been in the machine.

I might note.........a dealer did recommend plain ol' 15-40 motor oil. First thing out of his mouth. So, he might just be onto something. The tech people from Agco probably don't know squat.

Oh yeah.........the other machine, like I mentioned, has a Trans Hy that's a base 10W-30 oil. Been running in there for over 10yrs. It probably runs at least twice as hard, maybe 3 times as hard, as the machine I use to cut grass.............it's used for Hay Grazer that runs up to 8' tall, and I motor along at about 5mph when cutting.

[12345678910]

I've found non detergent motor oil locally - the stores label it "compressor oil" so you know to put it in the compressor

[propanehotrod]

I keep an old nasty shop vac around to do stuff like this. A piece of conduit with an 80 or 90 degree bend at the end taped to the vac hose really helps.
My local oil supplier sells non detergent 20 weight hydraulic oil. It still has the anti wear and anti foam additives for hydraulic systems.
As far as the drain Id skip it and just clean it out through the cover the way you did it.

[rexcormack]

Here you go Sam.
They also sell it in 55gal barrels!

https://www.mcmaster.com/1016K32/

[farmersammm]

Hey.........!!......thanks for all the responses. I know everyone is doing their best, and I was pretty much in the dark about the whole thing. I really appreciate it, this wasn't a "fun" thread.

I finally settled on 10-30 motor oil. It's a good Kinematic viscosity rating...........11ish (20W motor oil is around 9). And it'll emulsify any water in the system. And, it will carry any trash up to a limited point. This system has a filter in it. Filter is just after the outflow from the hydraulic motor. So.........the filter will work on stuff carried by the oil, being as it's detergent motor oil. The stuff I settled on is made by Warren (cheaper no-name house brand oil) with a viscosity index at around 133. The viscosity index above 100, means that it won't thin out at high heat. I forget the pour temp, but it's pretty low, not that it matters........these swathers don't get used at low temps.

Now all's I gotta do is wait on the next truck to get to Tractor Supply. They only have 2 five gallon pails in stock, and I need at least 4.........and will buy 5 to be safe. The reservoir is the tongue, and a few minutes of angle in leveling the tongue makes for pretty large quantities of oil required. You never truly know if the dipstick is accurate. I think the specs call for around 20 gallons, but that's dependent on level. A bit more doesn't hurt.

Anyways..........THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[farmshop]

Older bobcat loaders used the same oil in the engine and the hydraulic systems. I believe it was 10w30 or 15w40 as well

[Meltedmetal]

Our Case skid steer uses motor oil in the hydraulic system but they ask for an additional additive to be added. I'd have to look it up but the Case dealership sold it.

[livefast1]

I don't generally touch in service gas tanks but the ones that I have been nervous about I usually clean out with Dawn and water, let them sit for a bit. Then fill the bottom with an adequate amount of dry ice to purge the tank. This is not advice, this is solely the practice I use to my discretion. Now I have split plenty of diesel truck tanks for hydraulics, these are drained before they are cut in two, acid washed and power washed before sumps are fabricated and the split baffle installed and welded back up.

[dumb as a stump]

[QUOTE=farmersammm;8763845]Got it all put back together, and it's time to fill it.

There's no such thing as a straight 20W motor oil anymore. Probably haven't made it for more than 30+yrs I'd reckon (I might be wrong). Anyways it's not available...........period. Last time I got oil for this machine, I was able to buy some NOS 20W from a local oil distributor.......some old Quaker State still packaged in a metal can. Was fun opening enough quart cans to fill a 20 gallon reservoir

If you cant buy 20 w then use 30 w its close.. and available.