Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: Note to tank builders

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    3,185
    Post Thanks / Like

    Note to tank builders

    I've done it, I hate to admit.................................Built a tank without adequate means of draining water from the bottom This reservoir has no bottom bung to drain the water. They simply didn't incorporate it into the design. And...........it's dangerous to try to retrofit it to have a bottom drain......involves cutting, and welding, on a tank that's full of hydrocarbon fumes. Not in my repertoire, despite what the Internet experts recommend. Look up how many people have died inspecting the holds of supertankers that were supposedly purged, or the number of people dead/injured by introducing heat/sparks to highly combustible environments. I DO NOT WELD ON TANKS THAT HAVE BEEN IN SERVICE. If ya don't believe me...............I've seen plenty of evidence to back me up...........this is oil country where I live.

    This particular reservoir hasn't been opened up, to my knowledge, for near on 50yrs. The fluid last got changed about 20yrs ago. (A real tribute to modern oil, and modern rubber compounds that don't decay over the years)

    Anyways.............the high pressure, and draw, hose had to be replaced. No alternative but to drain the reservoir. It holds about 20+ gallons.



    The oil that came out was milky, or at least cloudy. This is the last of the bottom that hadn't drained. This can cause some serious problems for pumps, and hydraulic motors. It might be noted...........there was a bit of metal flakes in the bottom...........not bad, but a reminder that stuff wears.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, California
    Posts
    1,376
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Note to tank builders

    Why not bolt a drain valve? It looks like you can reach the bottom, a nice oil resistant rubber gasket, should be good to go without having to worry about fire/explosions

  3. Likes ronsii, docwelder liked this post
  4. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    3,185
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Note to tank builders

    Quote Originally Posted by Fnord5 View Post
    Why not bolt a drain valve? It looks like you can reach the bottom, a nice oil resistant rubber gasket, should be good to go without having to worry about fire/explosions
    Not a bad idea. I thought about it. Drill a hole, tap it, and put a plug in.

    I'm afraid of ANYTHING that might throw a spark. Stupid maybe, but I'm still here laying out purely stupid advice for other members of the forum. This crap scares me.

    K'kins said the same. "Twenty years, about a gallon or two of bad oil. forget it...........I don[t care to go to a funeral") I can believe her, she's seen this sorta crap at her job. AND SHE NEEDS SOMEBODY TO COLLECT THE GARBAGE...............SO SHE'S GOTTA BE RIGHT

  5. #4
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Central Wa. state
    Posts
    3,658
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Note to tank builders

    Boil it good with a hot water/steam cleaner, suck out the remnants and be good to go for 20 plus more years. Make a venturi type vacuum cleaner that runs from compressed air to get the stuff in the corners.

  6. Likes bfjou812, ronsii liked this post
  7. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    AR
    Posts
    1,860
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Note to tank builders

    Samm, you could drill the hole for a drain like Fnord5 suggested if you kept the reservoir full enough with water above the hole line inside and misted or ran water over the outside while drilling (like dust suppression on drilling concrete and bricks). That would suppress sparks and lube the hole cutter at the same time. Drill SLOWLY.

  8. #6
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Central Wa. state
    Posts
    3,658
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Note to tank builders

    The drain is a great idea... Problem is most hydraulic fluids hold water in suspension, when it does drop out it creates that jello like stuff that will not come through a drain. If you look at most well designed hydraulic tanks they have a 6 inch clean out opening with a bolted cover near the bottom so you can scrape the jello out. Been there, done that with quite a bit of heavy equipment.

  9. Likes ronsii liked this post
  10. #7
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,346
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Note to tank builders

    It seems like the top cover doesn't keep the water out either.

  11. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    SE New Mexico
    Posts
    112
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Note to tank builders

    Being an old retired oilfield welder I'm just going to shake my head about this thread and go on about my business. Dangerous it ain't.

  12. Likes MilitiaMetals, ronsii liked this post
  13. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Saskatchewan, Canada, (right above North Dakota and Montana)
    Posts
    255
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Note to tank builders

    Oil/diesel....I have patched leaking tanks with contents left in before because there wasn't an option, I keep the lid off for venting expansion induced pressure. Once again only do I do this on OIL or DIESEL.

    I'd cut a 2" hole in it underneath with a holesaw, clean it out, then weld on a re-pad and weld in a 1" bung
    Last edited by MilitiaMetals; 08-19-2020 at 10:11 AM.

  14. Likes ronsii liked this post
  15. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    3,185
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Note to tank builders

    Got it all put back together, and it's time to fill it.

    There's no such thing as a straight 20W motor oil anymore. Probably haven't made it for more than 30+yrs I'd reckon (I might be wrong). Anyways it's not available...........period. Last time I got oil for this machine, I was able to buy some NOS 20W from a local oil distributor.......some old Quaker State still packaged in a metal can. Was fun opening enough quart cans to fill a 20 gallon reservoir

    Yeah, this thing does specify 20W motor oil. I know they had, and used, regular hydraulic oils when this thing was built.........matter of fact, the Oliver specs 10 weight hyd. oil (ISO 32) in the hydraulic reservoir, 80W gear oil in the transmission. But, for reasons known only to Hesston, they clearly state 20W motor oil for the hydraulic pump/motor.

    I called Agco, who now either owns Hesston, or supplies the parts, and they called me back to say that you can run virtually any kind of oil in the thing. I gotta call BS on that. I'm thinking they really don't know what kind of oil to run in it. This thing is circa early 70's.

    I have another identical piece of machinery that I run Trans Hydraulic Oil in. It's been ok I guess. Only gets run about 16hr per year. It has started to make some sorta noise that I can't trace to either the hydraulic motor/pump, or the mechanicals (bearings etc.). My first thought was the Trans Hydraulic, being as it's not the recommended oil...........dunno. Only makes the snapping noise under load, and it actually affects the way the tractor runs, so it's momentarily overloading the motor on the tractor when it acts up. Anyways, that's an issue for another day.

    There are substantial differences between motor oil, and hydraulic oil.

    https://www.equipmentworld.com/under...draulic-fluid/

    If y'all don't care to read the link, which a lot of guys probably don't,, or won't The major difference is the way the different oils handle water contamination. Motor oil emulsifies the water, hydraulic oil drops it out.

    This is an issue, A BIG ISSUE. The tank has no "draw". It's the only term I can think of to describe it. Means a space at the bottom of any tank that might have water in it. Most buyers won't buy oil if the "draw" is too high. Producer has to go out and suck the water out before a tank truck will pick it up. K'kins also mentions, occasionally, that they sometimes have to "roll" the tank.........although I don't really know what it means (she's asleep right now),, but it involves chemicals that are used to get rid of (water??) at the bottom of the tank, or stratified water in the oil. If I'm wrong, somebody who knows can chime in, and give the correct definition for the process.

    Anyways.............the cover you see in the above pics is actually the oil outlet. It's at the bottom of the tank, with only about 2" of "draw" beneath it. Not a lot of space for water to collect. This makes it, in real world terms, almost impossible to provide a drain for water. 2" of water ain't a lot. This might be the reason they specified motor oil in the thing..........the water doesn't drop out to the bottom of the tank. So, because of this, there's little danger of taking a slug of water into the pump. The water is emulsified, and moves with the oil on a molecular level. Which might explain why the 20yr oil I drained looked actually pretty good for as long as it's been in the machine.

    I might note.........a dealer did recommend plain ol' 15-40 motor oil. First thing out of his mouth. So, he might just be onto something. The tech people from Agco probably don't know squat.

    Oh yeah.........the other machine, like I mentioned, has a Trans Hy that's a base 10W-30 oil. Been running in there for over 10yrs. It probably runs at least twice as hard, maybe 3 times as hard, as the machine I use to cut grass.............it's used for Hay Grazer that runs up to 8' tall, and I motor along at about 5mph when cutting.

  16. #11
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,346
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Note to tank builders

    I've found non detergent motor oil locally - the stores label it "compressor oil" so you know to put it in the compressor

  17. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Hutchinson Kansas
    Posts
    566
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Note to tank builders

    I keep an old nasty shop vac around to do stuff like this. A piece of conduit with an 80 or 90 degree bend at the end taped to the vac hose really helps.
    My local oil supplier sells non detergent 20 weight hydraulic oil. It still has the anti wear and anti foam additives for hydraulic systems.
    As far as the drain Id skip it and just clean it out through the cover the way you did it.
    Lincolin Power Wave 450, Lincoln Powermig 255, Lincoln Pro Mig 140, Lincoln Squarewave Tig 275, Miller Big 40 G(with Hobart Hefty suitcase), Thermal Arc 95S and Esab PCM875 in an already full machine shop.

  18. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Lockhart,Tx (BBQ capitol of the world)
    Posts
    1,132
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Note to tank builders

    Here you go Sam.
    They also sell it in 55gal barrels!

    https://www.mcmaster.com/1016K32/

  19. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    3,185
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Note to tank builders

    Hey.........!!......thanks for all the responses. I know everyone is doing their best, and I was pretty much in the dark about the whole thing. I really appreciate it, this wasn't a "fun" thread.

    I finally settled on 10-30 motor oil. It's a good Kinematic viscosity rating...........11ish (20W motor oil is around 9). And it'll emulsify any water in the system. And, it will carry any trash up to a limited point. This system has a filter in it. Filter is just after the outflow from the hydraulic motor. So.........the filter will work on stuff carried by the oil, being as it's detergent motor oil. The stuff I settled on is made by Warren (cheaper no-name house brand oil) with a viscosity index at around 133. The viscosity index above 100, means that it won't thin out at high heat. I forget the pour temp, but it's pretty low, not that it matters........these swathers don't get used at low temps.

    Now all's I gotta do is wait on the next truck to get to Tractor Supply. They only have 2 five gallon pails in stock, and I need at least 4.........and will buy 5 to be safe. The reservoir is the tongue, and a few minutes of angle in leveling the tongue makes for pretty large quantities of oil required. You never truly know if the dipstick is accurate. I think the specs call for around 20 gallons, but that's dependent on level. A bit more doesn't hurt.

    Anyways..........THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  20. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    minnesota
    Posts
    2,008
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Note to tank builders

    Older bobcat loaders used the same oil in the engine and the hydraulic systems. I believe it was 10w30 or 15w40 as well
    Millermatic 252
    millermatic 175
    miller 300 Thunderbolt
    lincoln ranger 250
    smith torches
    lots of bfh's
    If it dont fit get a bigger hammer

  21. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    1,532
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Note to tank builders

    Our Case skid steer uses motor oil in the hydraulic system but they ask for an additional additive to be added. I'd have to look it up but the Case dealership sold it.
    ---Meltedmetal

  22. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    93
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Note to tank builders

    I don't generally touch in service gas tanks but the ones that I have been nervous about I usually clean out with Dawn and water, let them sit for a bit. Then fill the bottom with an adequate amount of dry ice to purge the tank. This is not advice, this is solely the practice I use to my discretion. Now I have split plenty of diesel truck tanks for hydraulics, these are drained before they are cut in two, acid washed and power washed before sumps are fabricated and the split baffle installed and welded back up.
    Everlast 255ext
    Trailblazer 275nt
    Hypertherm Powermax1000
    Acra Mill
    Syncrowave 200
    Hobart 210mvp
    Ellis 3000
    Rockwell 10x36 lathe
    Grizzly G0704
    Hossfeld 2 bender
    Huth bender

  23. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Niagara on the lake Canada
    Posts
    1,409
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Note to tank builders

    [QUOTE=farmersammm;8763845]Got it all put back together, and it's time to fill it.

    There's no such thing as a straight 20W motor oil anymore. Probably haven't made it for more than 30+yrs I'd reckon (I might be wrong). Anyways it's not available...........period. Last time I got oil for this machine, I was able to buy some NOS 20W from a local oil distributor.......some old Quaker State still packaged in a metal can. Was fun opening enough quart cans to fill a 20 gallon reservoir

    If you cant buy 20 w then use 30 w its close.. and available.
    Miller thunderbolt 250
    Decastar 135E
    Recovering tool-o-holic
    ESAB OA
    I have been interested or involved in Electrical, Fire Alarm, Auto, Marine, Welding, Electronics ETC to name a just a few. So YES you can own too many tools.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Page generated in 1,603,508,290.55013 seconds with 14 queries