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Thread: Why not use 7014?

  1. #76
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    Re: Why not use 7014?

    Strike the arc about 3/4" ahead of where you want to start. Hold the arc length (about 1 diameter of the rod, not the flux diameter) long enough for the arc to stabilize. For inverter or transformer machine it happens pretty quick, for engine drive it takes longer for the RPMs to ramp up & settle down. Then move back to your start point, melt the puddle move forward. Pay close attention to the trash left in the weld path by the arc strike & make sure you are washing the trash out & allowing it to remelt/flow through the puddle to the flux coating. Those big bug holes tell me you are moving too fast over the strike zone & not fully consuming the flux/metal deposits made by arc strike.

    End porosity can be caused by the way you terminate the arc. Pulling straight away from the puddle will cause it sometimes. Break the arc by whipping the rod away from the puddle in the direction of travel.

  2. #77
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    Re: Why not use 7014?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttoks View Post
    I'm going to both disagree and agree with you, hermetically sealed rods (such as lincoln's sahara packs) are just as good as oven baked IF its from a trusted manufacturers and they claim it to be so, large companies such as Bechtel (the company building the nuclear reactors for the ford class aircraft carrier) trust them, and they have way more reason to trust that then you or I do.

    With that said your still right in saying that dry rods don't make a lick of difference if you cant weld in the first place, you wont even notice the difference as an amature, and even some pros dont notice it, its metallurgical and doesnt make alot of difference to us 99% of the time
    When a friend and I had to weld up a 2-1/2" thick repad that was cut too big (24" instead of 20") we both just grabbed a new 5kg box of 1/4" 7018 and headed up on the vessel(10' dia. about 30' long and approx. 50 tons). Two tiger torches (weed burners) for preheat. Welding up the nozzle and repad took 2-1/2 shifts. We started it, day shift worked on it and we finished it. Extra weld was also required because the repad had to be cut in two. Wasn't enough room to weld the nozzle with the repad tied to the flange like most repads are. Everything was beveled for full penetration. Shift went by fast though just burning rod after rod. Then we had to grind the huge weld on the repad so it only showed a 3/8" fillet around the nozzle. Turned out really good and you couldn't tell the repad was cut too big. More importantly the ultrasound passed.

  3. #78
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    Re: Why not use 7014?

    Quote Originally Posted by Welder Dave View Post
    Too much flux chipping off like that could cause porosity.
    +1

    In the community college welding course I took, the instructor told us that when the coating broke off the rod like that, we should "long arc" it on a piece of scrap material until the core had burned down to solid coating, then continue our weld as normal.

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  5. #79
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    Re: Why not use 7014?

    I'd be willing to bet the 3 beads without porosity had full flux on the rod. The uneven flux/slag on the end of the rod like that also indicates there was some finger nailing going on. Too much rod angle maybe?
    Last edited by Welder Dave; 09-09-2020 at 12:31 PM.

  6. #80
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    Re: Why not use 7014?

    As this comparison shows, 7018 is going to be tougher/more ductile than 7014:

    https://www.esabna.com/euweb/awtc/lesson3_11.htm

    7014 has 17% elongation, 7018 has 22% -- almost 30% more. 7018 also needs to withstand 20 ft-lb at -20F Charpy V-notch impacts. 7014 doesn't need to pass any Charpy tests.

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  8. #81
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    Re: Why not use 7014?

    Good chart. Charpy V-notch requirements is a simple way to tell rods are designed for dynamic loading. For severe applications charpy requirements can go to -60 and maybe even more.

  9. #82
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    Re: Why not use 7014?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelvin View Post
    +1

    In the community college welding course I took, the instructor told us that when the coating broke off the rod like that, we should "long arc" it on a piece of scrap material until the core had burned down to solid coating, then continue our weld as normal.

    In the pictures I posted of the filed tip for a restart - the edge of the flux cup that is left in the background is a good visual here. What I have been doing is running the rod on that "flux cup" and letting it travel at its' burn rate. The tip of the solid rod burns up inside the cup - so therefore the cup is a barrier to to maintain "arc length". At least that is what I am seeing as I've run the rods. To me, if I pull the rod away from the flux cup riding in the pool then I am "long arcing".

    Maybe that is not the case?

    With that having been said - when I start the arc and move back to the start of the weld bead I am not riding on the flux cup - I don't believe it has settled in by the time I get to the start (where the rod metal and the flux cup are at their hot burning proportions like the far rim of the flux coating in the filed tip pictures). I suppose that might be good to try to clarify - when I get to the start I pause, allowing a bit more time on that area so as to both heat up the part to get the pool to blend in as well as allow time for the flux cup to get its proportions. Then I proceed forward figuring out where that cup is and then I ride it along bottomed in the weld pool.

    As an aside, I do feel the side-to-side stability of the forward travel isn't the greatest. I haven't figured that part out = why some of the beads seem to meander a bit. That will just come with practice I suppose.

    Another question - I have my shade set on my hood to where I can see the pool, but the base metal is difficult to see. I try to use my peripheral vision to, in the case of the strips, watch the groove behind the rod coming up. So I am not "seeing" the arc in position, I am extrapolating from the rod position shadowing the groove in the background as I am coming up on it, if that makes sense.

    Should I lighten the shade on the hood? Or is there something else I need to do to bring out the contrast?

  10. #83
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    Re: Why not use 7014?

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyFishn View Post
    Should I lighten the shade on the hood? Or is there something else I need to do to bring out the contrast?
    Interesting... I have the shade at 9 and the range is 8-13. So I am almost as light as it goes, in "weld" mode anyway.

    Miller Digital Performance series.

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  11. #84
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    Re: Why not use 7014?

    If you are intent on running 7018, then you have to get rid of the fingernail on the end of the rod for good restarts.

    Tapping can cause flux to chip off, although seasoned welders do it all the time with no problem. Some give the rod a quick "flick" to get rid of the deposit on the rod tip. I found that using a file is cumbersome, juggling the rod and file. I have a couple of worn-down grinding wheels about 3-4" across that came off my bench grinder I keep handy in the shop. I just give the rod tip a quick scrape across the wheel and the rod tip comes clean; no chipped flux. Most wouldn't want to carry a worn-down grinder wheel in the field, though.

    I run my helmet at 9 to 9 1/2 and have no problem seeing the puddle. To me, the 10 lots of guys use is too dark except on high amperages above 125. Different helmets may see different at the same setting.
    Last edited by shortfuse; 09-09-2020 at 02:53 PM.

  12. #85
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    Re: Why not use 7014?

    Here is a comparison between a fresh rod (at 1) and various lengths of used rods & stubs from the trash.

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    At 3, 4, and 8 you can see where the flux has chipped up the rod a bit. At 3 it is a notch on what is the top of the rod in the picture - going up to about 1/8" or so. In that example, #3, wouldn't it be appropriate to burn the rod back through that notch in the flux so as to get proper shielding all the way around the rod/puddle?

    Is there an example in the mix that is the "ideal" for restriking? I know the stubs are too far used up, but just speaking strictly of the tips - as if the rod was longer like 2 or 3.


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  13. #86
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    Re: Why not use 7014?

    No.
    Break it off with your thumb, or tap it on something hard, and get to work.
    If you inspect the tip of a rod and then take time to try to get the optimal amount of flux, left, you will never get anything done, and will be looking for another job.
    If I were taking a test, Id probably grab a fresh rod, and not worry about it.
    If the flux is not knocked off a quarter of an inch, the rod will probably burn down to where the flux is before your rod is at your start point.

  14. #87
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    Re: Why not use 7014?




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Steve

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  16. #88
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    Re: Why not use 7014?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkie1957 View Post
    What this thread needs is mooooooooooooar 100-megabyte photos of amperage pointers and welding shield accessory part-number labels! Yay!

  17. #89
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    Re: Why not use 7014?

    CPR on a horse again.
    I can not find any to do mouth to mouth on a horse.
    At that point the horse is in trouble 😂

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkie1957 View Post



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  18. #90
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    Re: Why not use 7014?

    Quote Originally Posted by smithdoor View Post
    At that point the horse is in trouble ��
    ...like that old "snakebite victim" joke -- "I've got good news, and I've got bad news..."

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  20. #91
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    Re: Why not use 7014?

    7018 is typically not a drag rod (for beginners anyway) so you don't want the slag forming around the rod as it's burning. You need a slight gap between the rod and the slag forming. Then you can better see what the puddle is doing.

  21. #92
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    Re: Why not use 7014?

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyFishn View Post
    Should I lighten the shade on the hood? Or is there something else I need to do to bring out the contrast?
    Get a pancake hood. It seals out all the peripheral light and puts the lens closer to your eyes. The difference it makes is phenomenal. It's like turning off all the lights in your living room to watch a movie on TV.

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  23. #93
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    Re: Why not use 7014?

    A pancake hood isn't the answer. He needs to spend more time burning rods plain and simple.

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  25. #94
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    Re: Why not use 7014?

    Quote Originally Posted by yellowfin View Post
    Get a pancake hood. It seals out all the peripheral light and puts the lens closer to your eyes. The difference it makes is phenomenal. It's like turning off all the lights in your living room to watch a movie on TV.

    Never heard of one, looked it up. Good stuff. I never thought about the light inside/back side of the lens. I can see where that would be a huge advantage for welding outside.

    Quote Originally Posted by Welder Dave View Post
    A pancake hood isn't the answer. He needs to spend more time burning rods plain and simple.

    I wouldn't expect the hood alone to be a "golden answer" - but better visibility when welding is a big plus.
    Last edited by FlyFishn; 09-11-2020 at 12:05 AM.

  26. #95
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    Re: Why not use 7014?

    Burning more rod is the only way to learn welding. There is nothing that changes that fact. You can figure out all the theory and memorize the complete AWS and ASME code books but it doesn't amount to a hill of beans if you can't do a proper weld. Interesting that someone suggesting a pancake hood is also new to welding. Pancake hoods are primarily used by pipeliners because they fit that specific purpose. I'd guess 98% of the members on this forum don't use a pancake hood.

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  28. #96
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    Re: Why not use 7014?

    Quote Originally Posted by Welder Dave View Post
    Burning more rod is the only way to learn welding. There is nothing that changes that fact. You can figure out all the theory and memorize the complete AWS and ASME code books but it doesn't amount to a hill of beans if you can't do a proper weld. Interesting that someone suggesting a pancake hood is also new to welding. Pancake hoods are primarily used by pipeliners because they fit that specific purpose. I'd guess 98% of the members on this forum don't use a pancake hood.
    YUp...you aint gonna learn any craft or trade from a book, you got to get into whatever it is and get dirty, this fella is too damn worried about codes and regs and such and still has no clue how to read the puddle. He has another post about heating the lo-hy types of rod...Ive used all ogf them at one tiome or another out in the mines. Trust me that right there is the ultimate welding test, when the boss wants that overburden moved it gets moved one way or another and stuff will wear out and break. There is no code that Ive ever seen for this stuff but there is welding procedures involved and i havent seen any of them that say anything about heated rods, but they do talk about preheat innerpass temps and post heat on just about all of it.

    What Owen told me was its all about joint design, preheat and keep the weld clean. That came from a fella that was doin this stuff when Jesus was playin in his daddys sawdust and wood chips.

    I know what Ive done with rods that werent heated and I am quite content using those 7018 and other lo-hy rods that are in my box and not in an oven when I am not runnin Innershield

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  30. #97
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    Re: Why not use 7014?

    Do you wear glasses? Do you need them to weld? Sometimes under the hood if glasses and helmet lens don't line up, I find myself looking above the glasses. It you have bifocal the again alignment could be an issue also. It also narrows your view if you look above your glasses.

    Be aware of items the may reflect the arc light if welding inside. Outside reposition your body or drape something over the helmet to keep sun out.

  31. #98
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    Re: Why not use 7014?

    Disregard

  32. #99
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    Re: Why not use 7014?

    Quote Originally Posted by tapwelder View Post
    Do you wear glasses? Do you need them to weld? Sometimes under the hood if glasses and helmet lens don't line up, I find myself looking above the glasses. It you have bifocal the again alignment could be an issue also. It also narrows your view if you look above your glasses.

    Be aware of items the may reflect the arc light if welding inside. Outside reposition your body or drape something over the helmet to keep sun out.
    Don't wear glasses, so thats not a problem. Thank you for the added info and thought.

    I have been thinking about a rear cover for the hood of some kind to try. I haven't had a chance to get the machine out since I questioned the shade/visibility but I am curious if I knock the shade down to the lowest if that will change much. I recall spending time adjusting that last year because the visibility wasn't great and I settled where it is. Ive just left it alone since. I have never used the other 2 modes (grinding, cutting). I have not (yet) worn the hood with O/A - just shaded goggles.

  33. #100
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    Re: Why not use 7014?

    Visibility with a welding helmet takes time to get used to. Another reason to burn lots of rod. It appears to me that you're trying to find every possible excuse to not be burning rods. You haven't had time to get the machine out but had all kinds of time to type ad nauseum on the forum. If you truly want to learn how to weld it's time to s*it or get off the pot.

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