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Thread: Heating rods - specifically 7018, Ovens, Etc?

  1. #101
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    Re: Heating rods - specifically 7018, Ovens, Etc?

    There types of work where you need to per heat rod.
    I do not think most here have any or very little welding with heated rod.

    But most data sheets will say above xx% humidity to heat the rod.

    I have found welding rod will welded better hot. But heating rod is pain. When heating your rod the rod will be wet at first as gets hot.

    I like just going box and start welding. Some try welding with and without heating rod.
    A 60 watt light does not work it takes a oven set right temperature. A toaster oven will work but takes hours to get to right temperature.

    Good luck
    Dave

    [url]https://www.hobartbrothers.com/uploads/pdf/datasheets/7018XLM.pdf[/0]


    Quote Originally Posted by FlyFishn View Post
    I've heard things all over the board about 7018 rods and "heating them properly". The "board" ranges from:

    - Stick them in an exhaust pipe with an engine running for a while
    - or store them in an old refrigerator with a 60 watt light bulb on inside

    to

    - reheat at 600 degrees F for 2 hours, store at 350deg F.

    It seems more often than not the 350 degree F temperature is referenced, so I gather that may be the "proper" temperature.

    Is there something that a temperature closer to 600deg does to break apart the hydrogen and oxygen that 350deg won't do, but will prevent it from occurring at that temp (as in reheating wont break it up but storing will prevent it)?

    With the higher temperatures - one common criticism of the 7018's is that the flux coatings will become brittle and flake off, sometimes referred to as "fingernailing". Some say that can happen from too high of temperature as well as too long of a bake time at a lower temperature.

    Then there is the question of "proper storage and transport". In industrial settings it appears common place to have a facility based large rod oven (like on a floor of a high-rise going up - put a big rod oven on the floor) then welders distribute the rods to their locations with portable rod ovens so as to keep the rods hot, while the floor oven is the "storage location".

    With respect to the high temp "reheat" - it appears that can only happen once to a new box of rods also. So if the rods have to be stored long-term it wouldn't be appropriate to reheat the rods in 3 months if a box of rods was reheated once earlier for a job and left-overs were trying to be saved for another job down the road.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________

    So lets take a 5lb box of 7018 that is not sealed (either not sealed or has been open and exposed to air, either way).

    1. What is a proper temperature to bring the rod to?
    2. What is a proper time to leave the rod at said temperature?

    As an aside to #2 above - the oven temperature can't dictate the rod temperature immediately. So if the oven is at, say, 350deg and the rod is at ambient (we'll call it 75deg) - when you stick the rod in the oven at 350deg it is going to ramp up from 75 to 350 over time. Does that ramp up time detract from #2 above? So lets say it takes 5 minutes for the rod to heat through to 350 degrees and it needs to sit at 350 degrees for 30 minutes. Is that 35 minutes time in the oven? Or 25 minutes at 350deg with the 5 minute warm-up = 30 minutes?

    Do the answers to 1 and 2 above depend on weld specs/design specs? Does code call them out? Or are there multiple codes that call for multiple procedures?

    Lastly -

    Is a 350 degree temperature adequate to "reheat"? If so - how long should the rod soak at that temp? 1 hour? 2 hours? 12 hours/over-night? Is there a time limit so as to not get brittle flux?

  2. #102
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    Re: Heating rods - specifically 7018, Ovens, Etc?

    Quote Originally Posted by Welder Dave View Post
    He's mentioned cost of rods and other things a few times...
    I complain about that all the time too
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  3. #103
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    Re: Heating rods - specifically 7018, Ovens, Etc?

    They maybe going hardware store to buy steel and has no scrap pile.
    Some think all you to need to do is pickup the stinger and start welding like a pro.

    When start welding I sent hours on overheard welding.

    Today it is like riding a bike.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by Welder Dave View Post
    I think he spent all his money buying the machine and can't afford to get some decent steel to practice on.

  4. #104
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    Re: Heating rods - specifically 7018, Ovens, Etc?

    Here a good chart for welding rods

    https://www.hobartbrothers.com/downl...e_gu_OvGO9.pdf

  5. #105
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    Re: Heating rods - specifically 7018, Ovens, Etc?

    Quote Originally Posted by Insaneride View Post

    Btw 123weld, are you staying out of the fires? You may have the fires but we got the smoke. Unhealthy breathing but sunset and sunrise is pretty.
    Hello Insaneride, good to hear from you, and thanks for asking. Fires cant get me where i'm at now. when i was at bottom side of mt. tam, that would be a different story. nice you can see the sun, a few days we cant see it at all. peoples headlights come on automatically i think, cuz there car thinks its dusk/night, during day. ash/smoke everywhere. very terrible/sickening, that we allow this to happen.

  6. #106
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    Re: Heating rods - specifically 7018, Ovens, Etc?

    Just throw some silicon packets where ever you store em and seal them up . I make xray welds all the time without a rod oven . Unless the rods have been soaked or are falling apart. They are fine .

    Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

  7. #107
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    Re: Heating rods - specifically 7018, Ovens, Etc?

    What type of work are you doing?
    Where/location are you doing your welding ?

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by l0w n slow View Post
    Just throw some silicon packets where ever you store em and seal them up . I make xray welds all the time without a rod oven . Unless the rods have been soaked or are falling apart. They are fine .

    Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
    Last edited by smithdoor; 09-14-2020 at 12:14 AM.

  8. #108
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    Re: Heating rods - specifically 7018, Ovens, Etc?

    Quote Originally Posted by l0w n slow View Post
    Just throw some silicon packets where ever you store em and seal them up . I make xray welds all the time without a rod oven . Unless the rods have been soaked or are falling apart. They are fine .
    Desiccant gel packs? Wouldn't that be like tossing in desiccant gel packs to dry desiccant gel packs? As in the rods will have absorbed moisture just the same as desiccant gel packs already.

  9. #109
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    Re: Heating rods - specifically 7018, Ovens, Etc?

    Desiccant gel packs go into a sealed storage container with the electrodes. The desiccant absorbs any moisture instead of the electrodes.
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  10. #110
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    Re: Heating rods - specifically 7018, Ovens, Etc?

    Quote Originally Posted by M J D View Post
    I've burned hundreds of pounds of 7018 on " critical" items that weren't covered by code with electrodes that never saw an oven. What the OP needs to concentrate on is how to properly weld and not how overanalyzing something will make them a better weldor. In other words the average person doesn't need a degree in meteorology to know the difference between rain and snow.
    excuse me
    but if I am the responsible welding inspector who should guide you before welding, during welding and after welding. then I should have sent you home. You don't teach such things to a welder that it is not important to bake your electrode. Have you never learned that there are rules to follow, such as a WPS?

    do you know how many people you give a misguided example with such advice that is wrong.

  11. #111
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    Re: Heating rods - specifically 7018, Ovens, Etc?

    I suspect the coating on the rods is a stronger desiccant than the silica gel packs. If anything, the rods probably desiccate the silica gel.

  12. #112
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    Re: Heating rods - specifically 7018, Ovens, Etc?

    I agree.

    Some inspector will check to see following all rules/guide lines. Sometimes it will printed in draws or specifications.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by denlow60 View Post
    excuse me
    but if I am the responsible welding inspector who should guide you before welding, during welding and after welding. then I should have sent you home. You don't teach such things to a welder that it is not important to bake your electrode. Have you never learned that there are rules to follow, such as a WPS?

    do you know how many people you give a misguided example with such advice that is wrong.

  13. #113
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    Re: Heating rods - specifically 7018, Ovens, Etc?

    Quote Originally Posted by denlow60 View Post
    excuse me
    but if I am the responsible welding inspector who should guide you before welding, during welding and after welding. then I should have sent you home. You don't teach such things to a welder that it is not important to bake your electrode. Have you never learned that there are rules to follow, such as a WPS?

    do you know how many people you give a misguided example with such advice that is wrong.
    Well MR no it all, I'm sure you failed to see where I mentioned not covered by code. I have welded many years on code and non code items. That is exactly why I stated NON CODE. Perhaps the all caps will help you distinguish the difference. Maybe you should stick to correcting people in English class rather than a welding forum where I would question that you even know what your talking about.

  14. #114
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    Re: Heating rods - specifically 7018, Ovens, Etc?

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyFishn View Post
    Desiccant gel packs? Wouldn't that be like tossing in desiccant gel packs to dry desiccant gel packs? As in the rods will have absorbed moisture just the same as desiccant gel packs already.
    Keep in mind that with the electrodes, the moisture is chemically bonded and the desiccant pack will not remove it.
    The practice of using the desiccant packs is to remove any moisture from the air inside the storage tube so the rods don't get "worse."
    Dave J.

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    Re: Heating rods - specifically 7018, Ovens, Etc?

    I guess it depends on your definition of critical. Really critical "code" jobs such as some vessels and piping will call for a portable rod oven at the weld site, specific preheat and inter-pass temperatures, post weld stress relieve, etc. Most of the time rods out of the main oven are suffice. Some would consider welding repairs on a D11 critical and heavy equipment is welded successfully with non heated rods everyday. The welds still need to strong though. This thread is kind of going off topic. You certainly don't need an oven to learn how to weld with 7018. What you do need is to burn them, lots of them. Everything else is a moot point at this stage.

  16. #116
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    Re: Heating rods - specifically 7018, Ovens, Etc?

    Per heating the steel is so no cracks in weld
    Typically above 1/2" may need per heating depending on outside temperature.

    You heat the rod so no water perverting gas bubbles that would weakness the weld.

    If working for a employer say nothing or get to work with everything hot unless you are certified then back to hot.

    If doing work on earth moving equipment do best for job.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by Welder Dave View Post
    I guess it depends on your definition of critical. Really critical "code" jobs such as some vessels and piping will call for a portable rod oven at the weld site, specific preheat and inter-pass temperatures, post weld stress relieve, etc. Most of the time rods out of the main oven are suffice. Some would consider welding repairs on a D11 critical and heavy equipment is welded successfully with non heated rods everyday. The welds still need to strong though. This thread is kind of going off topic. You certainly don't need an oven to learn how to weld with 7018. What you do need is to burn them, lots of them. Everything else is a moot point at this stage.

  17. #117
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    Re: Heating rods - specifically 7018, Ovens, Etc?

    Quote Originally Posted by Welder Dave View Post
    I guess it depends on your definition of critical. Really critical "code" jobs such as some vessels and piping will call for a portable rod oven at the weld site, specific preheat and inter-pass temperatures, post weld stress relieve, etc. Most of the time rods out of the main oven are suffice. Some would consider welding repairs on a D11 critical and heavy equipment is welded successfully with non heated rods everyday. The welds still need to strong though. This thread is kind of going off topic. You certainly don't need an oven to learn how to weld with 7018. What you do need is to burn them, lots of them. Everything else is a moot point at this stage.
    Critical non code to me would typically be repairs where there is no authorized procedure on heavy equipment, trailers and the like. Heavy equipment using higher tensile steel calls for preheat, low alloy electrode( which my belief is, must be heated to guarantee proper results) and often times there is a pre approved procedure . As you stated code is involving a pre approved procedure, non code is not. Nowhere did I ever state that if there is a code, procedure, something handed down from God on stone tablets, should you deviate from that.

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  19. #118
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    Re: Heating rods - specifically 7018, Ovens, Etc?

    Quote Originally Posted by Welder Dave View Post
    .... This thread is kind of going off topic. You certainly don't need an oven to learn how to weld with 7018. What you do need is to burn them, lots of them. Everything else is a moot point at this stage.
    Yep, burn em up
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  20. #119
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    Re: Heating rods - specifically 7018, Ovens, Etc?

    Quote Originally Posted by MinnesotaDave View Post
    Yep, burn em up
    Post #2

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  21. #120
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    Re: Heating rods - specifically 7018, Ovens, Etc?

    Quote Originally Posted by M J D View Post
    Well MR no it all, I'm sure you failed to see where I mentioned not covered by code. I have welded many years on code and non code items. That is exactly why I stated NON CODE. Perhaps the all caps will help you distinguish the difference. Maybe you should stick to correcting people in English class rather than a welding forum where I would question that you even know what your talking about.
    so you claim that if you weld on critical items that don't have a code then you don't need to take any precautionary measures. I don't understand anyone saying that and trying to justify themselves.
    teach people what is useful.
    7018 rods you have to get the hydrogen out.
    it's not like 6010 rods, with a lot of hydrogen,
    which you can weld and after welding gives heat treatment

  22. #121
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    Re: Heating rods - specifically 7018, Ovens, Etc?

    If you are self-employed and did not follow per manufacturer on using there rod. Then then the weld fails you see at lease a bunch of lawyer's and maybe the DA too.

    So your good days are over for long time.

    After around 1980 we switched for all shop welding to flux core with CO2
    Only field welding was stick by the book.

    The law does not care if have a license or not

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by M J D View Post
    Critical non code to me would typically be repairs where there is no authorized procedure on heavy equipment, trailers and the like. Heavy equipment using higher tensile steel calls for preheat, low alloy electrode( which my belief is, must be heated to guarantee proper results) and often times there is a pre approved procedure . As you stated code is involving a pre approved procedure, non code is not. Nowhere did I ever state that if there is a code, procedure, something handed down from God on stone tablets, should you deviate from that.

  23. #122
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    Re: Heating rods - specifically 7018, Ovens, Etc?

    Quote Originally Posted by denlow60 View Post
    so you claim that if you weld on critical items that don't have a code then you don't need to take any precautionary measures. I don't understand anyone saying that and trying to justify themselves.
    teach people what is useful.
    7018 rods you have to get the hydrogen out.
    it's not like 6010 rods, with a lot of hydrogen,
    which you can weld and after welding gives heat treatment
    You are a f***ing idiot who does not comprehend english and most importantly doesn't know what your talking about. I'm sure I forgot more about this stuff than you will ever know.

  24. #123
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    Re: Heating rods - specifically 7018, Ovens, Etc?

    Do it!!!! Fiiiiiightttttt!!!!! jk, This is a good thread.
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  25. #124
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    Re: Heating rods - specifically 7018, Ovens, Etc?

    Quote Originally Posted by denlow60 View Post
    so you claim that if you weld on critical items that don't have a code then you don't need to take any precautionary measures. I don't understand anyone saying that and trying to justify themselves.
    teach people what is useful.
    7018 rods you have to get the hydrogen out.
    it's not like 6010 rods, with a lot of hydrogen,
    which you can weld and after welding gives heat treatment
    I know MJD and know that whenever precautions need to be taken, he does.
    He also knows that not all welds need baked/reconditioned/stored low-hydrogen rods. In those cases, "run what you brung."

    You do not "have to get the hydrogen out" of 7018's unless it's necessary - which in many welds with a WPS, it is.

    In mild steel or A36 it mostly doesn't even matter. It only matters for crack sensitive material, which is much higher than A36.

    Interestingly, solid wire mig and regular tig welds are naturally low-hydrogen as there is no flux.

    I have no idea what you mean when you state 6010 gives heat treatment...
    Dave J.

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  26. #125
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    Re: Heating rods - specifically 7018, Ovens, Etc?

    If it was absolutely imperative that 7018 be kept in an oven, I don't think they'd sell to anyone who walked in the store. They'd probably require a special certificate to buy it and ensure it goes directly into a rod oven. As was posted previously non heated 7018 is still the strongest mild steel electrode by a long shot. In simple break tests 7014 took 10 blows and snapped off. Non heated 7018 took 18 blows and had to beat back the other way to break. I'd like to see a case where someone was sued because they didn't use 7018 from an oven. Being 7018 is probably the most popular rod why isn't there thousands and thousands of lawsuits for it failing because it wasn't kept in an oven? Preheat on thicker sections is more important than if the rods were kept in an oven. This whole thread is just getting ridiculous. 125 posts and the OP has maybe burned 3 rods.

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