Tig Gas Flow Tester Question

[robert-r]

I bought a CK TIG gas flow tester and used it to test the flow at the torch - Everlast 255 EXT.
According to the flow tester there is a difference of more than 10 CFH between the flow meter setting and the torch (both 9 and 17).
Have checked and there are no leaks from the tank to the machine. I have not removed the cover (fear) to check for internal leakage.
I tried it on my mig machine and there is no difference between the flow meter and the gas coming out of the torch.
fwiw - am having no problems (other than being a tig newby) using the tig machine/torch.

Any ideas? Did I buy something that's going to drive me crazy?

TIA

[Oscar]

If you are 100% positive there are no leaks from the tank to the machine, then it's either inside the machine, and/or somewhere from the outlet of the machine to the torch body threaded insert. Have you checked those connection points?

[Welder Dave]

What brand of flowmeter? Could be a bad gauge if it's a low end flowmeter. Maybe switch with your Mig flowmeter and see if it still reads different.

[MinnesotaDave]

Maybe switch with your Mig flowmeter and see if it still reads different.

That's what I would try first as well.

I had a bad regulator once, it fluctuated up and down and sounded weird. Have not had a bad flow meter yet.

Could the glass graduations on the flow meter be for a different gas?

[Welder Dave]

A different scale for a different gas could certainly cause it. Not sure if the OP has a flowmeter with the vertical tube or a flow gauge with just a round CFH gauge.

[robert-r]

I borrowed a flow meter/regulator from a friend. Same story. I doubt the problem is between the machine and a torch - I have a 9 and 17 torch on separate hoses and connectors. Both give the same result.

Both meters are vertical tubes and I am reading the correct scale. So, I'm thinking the problem is internal. Will open the case later today or tomorrow. If I can't find a leak, could it be a valve that is partially opening? How would I test that?

What mystifies me... why does the the machine seem to be welding ok?

[Kelvin]

What mystifies me... why does the the machine seem to be welding ok?

Uh-oh...

[LtBadd]

OT
I like CK products, just don't understand why their gas tester is priced 2x - 3x others...

[G-ManBart]

What mystifies me... why does the the machine seem to be welding ok?

That might depend upon what you're welding since some materials and situation are more sensitive than others.

Not long ago a friend bought a new TIG welder and was able to get good results on both stainless and mild steel, but things went sideways when he tried aluminum. He checked everything he could think of, ran the flow rate way up and down....terrible results that couldn't even be called a bead. Finally, he called me. I had him bring the whole setup over and the first thing I did was take the torch apart so we could regrind the tungsten....the collet was in backwards! That was letting enough gas get through for stainless and mild steel, but not enough for aluminum. I reversed the collet, cleaned up the tungsten and immediately got good beads on aluminum.

It may just be that you're still getting enough shielding gas to get by even if it's not as much as the meter shows.

[robert-r]

That might depend upon what you're welding since some materials and situation are more sensitive than others.

It may just be that you're still getting enough shielding gas to get by even if it's not as much as the meter shows.

That is what I'm starting to suspect (I know the torch is assembled correctly). The unit is less than 6 months old and I'm going to have to man-up and contact Everlast. Decided not to remove the cover until instructed by Everlast to do so as that could affect the warranty. Not looking forward to that as I'm hearing impaired and phones are a nightmare for me. Hopefully this can be done with e-mail.

[Welder Dave]

Send a PM to Lugweld (Mark) on the Everlast forum on this site.

[lugweld]

I'm here . Honestly, I've heard this before about those flow meters people buy, always conflicting with what is reading on the scale. Change regulators same thing. No internal leaks. Not sure what the discrepancy is. Unless there is a problem with CK graduation, or ours (since other brands are similar when tested, not thinking it is just us) or in the difference in how the figure CFH, or SCFH. But in reality, you adjust the regulator not based off a number, but off what you need to do the job. I never really consider how much or little I am using, only that I adjust it down until I get porosity, and then back up until it disappears, and then add a bit more for insurance. Then I'll look at what it says, and it usually is in the recommended range but if it isn't I don't worry about it, because you adjust the gas flow to your gas need, not a number. I use the scale more as a reference point than anything. Don't be obsessive about it. CK sells a meter. Ok. Use one or the other. But let your eyes, and ears tell you if it is right or not.

[Welder Dave]

I think it would depend on how critical of a weld you were doing. I wonder if a Tig torch just has a smaller gas hose or passages that restrict flow somehow?

[robert-r]

Sure wish there was a way to test flow at the hose connection from the machine to the torch. Anyone know of a way to do this easily?

[G-ManBart]

That is what I'm starting to suspect (I know the torch is assembled correctly). The unit is less than 6 months old and I'm going to have to man-up and contact Everlast. Decided not to remove the cover until instructed by Everlast to do so as that could affect the warranty. Not looking forward to that as I'm hearing impaired and phones are a nightmare for me. Hopefully this can be done with e-mail.

A couple of questions come to mind. I'm assuming the reading on the flow tester is giving you a number lower than what you see on the tank flow meter, correct?

Did you try the flow meter/regulator from your MIG on your Everlast in addition to the flow meter you borrowed?

The reason I ask is that flow meters vary in their settings as far as output pressure. I may be totally wrong, but that could play a factor. Most of the inexpensive flow meters seem to be set at 50PSI output, but there are some that are 30, 25 and even 20PSI. I would think the flow tester would have to be set up to be calibrated for a certain pressure to be accurate. If the flow meter on your Everlast, and the one you borrowed, are one output pressure, and the one on your MIG is another, you should get different results at the flow tester (I think).

Now I want to buy a flow tester....lol. I've got at least four different types of flow meters and would love to see if there are any differences.

[shovelon]

Sure wish there was a way to test flow at the hose connection from the machine to the torch. Anyone know of a way to do this easily?

Firstly ignore what Mr. Everlasting lugweld says as I took his comment as questioning your intelligence.

But to rule out the machine unscrew the hose from the back of the machine and test the output of the hose. See if that matches the output of the machine or flowmeter. If you have another gas hose you could take off machine output torch hose and put on the gas hose and rule out the torch. Yes flowmeters are all over the place as far as performance but that does not mean you cannot get close.

[lugweld]

No. I didn't question his intelligence one bit. But I do question yours. lol.

[Welder Dave]

I was thinking if you're doing something critical and you need a specific gas flow, the torch flow and flowmeter should be pretty close. You can't just go by how it welds. The OP may not be doing anything that critical but it really shouldn't matter. There has to be something causing the different flow rates. Connect the Tig torch directly to the flowmeter and see if it reads the same. This would at least tell you if the torch is restricting flow.

[lugweld]

I was thinking if you're doing something critical and you need a specific gas flow, the torch flow and flowmeter should be pretty close. You can't just go by how it welds. The OP may not be doing anything that critical but it really shouldn't matter. There has to be something causing the different flow rates. Connect the Tig torch directly to the flowmeter and see if it reads the same. This would at least tell you if the torch is restricting flow.

This would require a better test method than something you stick over your torch, or look at on a analog gauge. Who is to say either is right, or wrong? You'd need a more scientifically calibrated instrument than either to determine ultimate accuracy. If both have a 5-10% margin of error, accounting for discrepancies like pressure restrictions, parallax, exact ball location, gas purity etc. you could have a difference of several CFH.
From Mr. Victor himself... pay attention to page 35 and 36.
https://www.esabna.com/shared/docume...ds/65-1308.pdf

[Welder Dave]

I believe QC inspectors use the portable meters to confirm gas flow readings at the torch and compare them to the flowmeter reading. They could certainly check the portable gas meter and/or the flowmeter was accurate with calibrated meters in a lab.

[INXS2]

i have a Everlast MTS 251si and a Everlast MTS 221sti and the 221sti reads about 5 cfh lower then it's set for (measured at the mig and tig nozzle with 2 portable testers) I've tried different regulators with the same results. My 251si reads exactly what the portables say, it's right on no matter what regulator I used. For me, I'd say it's in my new 221sti but I can read it with the 2 portables and I don't really care. It reads 5cfh higher then what's coming out of either torch. As for Mark, I've talked to him on the phone a few times and WON'T be doing that any more. I mentioned that to another employee (Alex) and he gave me his personal cell number. Mark has a lot of experience but when asking him certain questions he just talked me down like I knew nothing. Sorry Mark, but that's the truth!

[robert-r]

Had to exchange my 200 cf argon cylinder due to it being empty. Anyway... the gas flow tester now reads about 2 cfh lower than the flow meter. I can live with that.

[lugweld]

i have a Everlast MTS 251si and a Everlast MTS 221sti and the 221sti reads about 5 cfh lower then it's set for (measured at the mig and tig nozzle with 2 portable testers) I've tried different regulators with the same results. My 251si reads exactly what the portables say, it's right on no matter what regulator I used. For me, I'd say it's in my new 221sti but I can read it with the 2 portables and I don't really care. It reads 5cfh higher then what's coming out of either torch. As for Mark, I've talked to him on the phone a few times and WON'T be doing that any more. I mentioned that to another employee (Alex) and he gave me his personal cell number. Mark has a lot of experience but when asking him certain questions he just talked me down like I knew nothing. Sorry Mark, but that's the truth!

i apologize if I made you feel that way. We are all human beings and I wish I could please everybody. I get a lot of thanks and compliments, way more than I do criticisms, and it is rare that I do, but it happens. I take my time with customers and try to explain things in detail, in a simple manner as much as I can. I guess some people do feel that way. But comments privately and publicly are overwhelmingly positive with how I work with customers and what I do for them.

[shovelon]

No. I didn't question his intelligence one bit. But I do question yours. lol.

Your post was a 100% brushoff. Ignore the scales? Really? Flow down until you get porosity then flow up? You determine gas flow by the seat of your pants? Dude really?

All of my 10 or so portable CFH flowmeters read within 1 cfh of each other. About half are made in Italy like the CK, and the rest are China made. I have one at every weld station and mobile rig. I have diagnosed so many problems and failures I can't count them. Many times customers ask me to look at thier equipment and for the most part it comes down to poorly made cheap chinese parts. Some chinese goods perform well, but I trust but verify.

I think the OP's portable flowgauge is accurate. Ebay sells a chinese CFH version for some $15. He should get one to test against his CK Italy made flowgauge. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Welding-Gas...IAAOSwmLlX66xX

[shovelon]

This would require a better test method than something you stick over your torch, or look at on a analog gauge. Who is to say either is right, or wrong? You'd need a more scientifically calibrated instrument than either to determine ultimate accuracy. If both have a 5-10% margin of error, accounting for discrepancies like pressure restrictions, parallax, exact ball location, gas purity etc. you could have a difference of several CFH.
From Mr. Victor himself... pay attention to page 35 and 36.
https://www.esabna.com/shared/docume...ds/65-1308.pdf

Not 10 cfh worth of discrepancy. 10 cfh difference spells flow failure somewhere.