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Thread: Getting countersinks sharpened?

  1. #1
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    Getting countersinks sharpened?

    Anyone know of a service/company that will sharpen MA Ford countersinks? I have a smaller 3/4" one that isn't too expensive and a larger 1.25" one that is a bit pricey id like sharpened.

    I called MA Ford and they're pretty clueless about it.

    I ruined both in my ignorance trying to use them on plasma cut holes.
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    Re: Getting countersinks sharpened?

    This is just a wild *** guess but I'm going to bet the cost of sharpening will match or exceed the replacement cost!
    Sorry but I don't have any good suggestions.

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    Re: Getting countersinks sharpened?

    Quote Originally Posted by rexcormack View Post
    This is just a wild *** guess but I'm going to bet the cost of sharpening will match or exceed the replacement cost!
    Sorry but I don't have any good suggestions.
    I was wondering this myself, but figured it canít hurt to get a price.
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    Re: Getting countersinks sharpened?

    1 I have cutter grind in house at work, so I would have them do it.

    2 is there a tool grind shop in the area? (Probably)

    3 do you know any of the local machine shops? They will send cutters out to be ground and maybe they will add yours in for a small fee.

    No real advice I know just 8 minutes of thought... and a reply.

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    Re: Getting countersinks sharpened?

    My dad the retired tool and die maker told me to sharpen them myself when I asked him the same question a couple of years ago. He said it was no sweat, but I had no luck. But maybe if you have some friendly machinists or tool and die makers near you, they might do it for a small fee. I bet if you ask around, one of the guys at the firehouse can probably introduce you to the right person.
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    Re: Getting countersinks sharpened?

    Use single flute counter sink and sharpen the face.
    You also use a drill bit hand sharpened to angle.

    Both you have to hand sharpen.
    Fab work typically ok if a machine shop you would need a tool cutter grinder.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by BrooklynBravest View Post
    Anyone know of a service/company that will sharpen MA Ford countersinks? I have a smaller 3/4" one that isn't too expensive and a larger 1.25" one that is a bit pricey id like sharpened.

    I called MA Ford and they're pretty clueless about it.

    I ruined both in my ignorance trying to use them on plasma cut holes.

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    Re: Getting countersinks sharpened?

    A quick search, first site : Nucut sharpening http://end-mill-sharpening.com/sharpening-prices/ the site shows between $3 and $20 for end mills depending on size and flutes,Before shipping.
    Worth it, I don't know ?

    There once was a lot of machine shops on Long Island(30 years ago). Must be a few guys left doing stuff in their garage/basement.

    Good Luck,

    PS - I like MSC direct.com for end mills, counter sinks, drill bits, etc...
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    Re: Getting countersinks sharpened?

    there are a number of sharpening guys in the NY area, this is one of them: http://precisionsaw.com/ Jim

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    Re: Getting countersinks sharpened?

    I have been told the MA Ford brand are harder to sharpen than others. That being said its what I use.
    Any tool grinding shop should be able to do it.
    Plasma cut holes are about the worst thing you could try to chamfer. They are really crispy. Your best bet is to run them as slow as possible.
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    Re: Getting countersinks sharpened?

    I have used a rotary file to chamfer plasna cut holes... but slow is the key with that too...

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    Re: Getting countersinks sharpened?

    Quote Originally Posted by BrooklynBravest View Post

    I ruined both in my ignorance trying to use them on plasma cut holes.
    Will you use them on plasma cut hole, again? What is the solution to longevity when used on plasma cut holes?

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    Re: Getting countersinks sharpened?

    Nitriding is what kills ya when trying to machine anything cut with plasma. It eats HSS. Carbide, if available, is the only solution. I gave up on counter sinks, and now strictly stick to single edge, hand ground, boring bars in the mill. Only time I'll use a countersink is when doing something with the hand drill, and I don't have any other choice.

    If your new gear head drill has an R8 arbor, you might try using a boring head, and grind your own countersink bars.

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    Re: Getting countersinks sharpened?

    Quote Originally Posted by tapwelder View Post
    Will you use them on plasma cut hole, again? What is the solution to longevity when used on plasma cut holes?
    As sam says below, there really isnt much solution. The best course of action if you know you need to countersink a plasma cut hole, is to make the hole undersized as a pilot. Drill it, and then countersink it. The drill bit is easier to sharpen and will cut away the nitrided edge that is created ultimately because compressed air is predominantly nitrogen.

    Issue with that, is plasma cutting generally doesn't produce the best holes unless you're up in the 5/8" diameter and upward. So now you're taking a slightly out of round hole, and hoping your drill bit finds center and that center is what you want it to be. An oblong hole could certainly end up in a final sized hole off from where you wanted it.


    Quote Originally Posted by farmersammm View Post
    Nitriding is what kills ya when trying to machine anything cut with plasma. It eats HSS. Carbide, if available, is the only solution. I gave up on counter sinks, and now strictly stick to single edge, hand ground, boring bars in the mill. Only time I'll use a countersink is when doing something with the hand drill, and I don't have any other choice.

    If your new gear head drill has an R8 arbor, you might try using a boring head, and grind your own countersink bars.
    I was thinking of getting a boring head but its tough to line up any of that stuff without the XY table of a mill?
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    Re: Getting countersinks sharpened?

    Quote Originally Posted by BrooklynBravest View Post
    As sam says below, there really isnt much solution. The best course of action if you know you need to countersink a plasma cut hole, is to make the hole undersized as a pilot. Drill it, and then countersink it. The drill bit is easier to sharpen and will cut away the nitrided edge that is created ultimately because compressed air is predominantly nitrogen.

    Issue with that, is plasma cutting generally doesn't produce the best holes unless you're up in the 5/8" diameter and upward. So now you're taking a slightly out of round hole, and hoping your drill bit finds center and that center is what you want it to be. An oblong hole could certainly end up in a final sized hole off from where you wanted it.




    I was thinking of getting a boring head but its tough to line up any of that stuff without the XY table of a mill?
    That was really stupid of me. I forgot that you don't have an adjustable table (x,y). It would be a HUGE chore to try to center a hole without an adjustable table.

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    Re: Getting countersinks sharpened?

    I would try an indexable carbide countersink. On the larger sizes they use a 4 sided insert giving you many new edges. On something like countersinking, I believe the cheap import inserts would be fine.

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    Re: Getting countersinks sharpened?

    Plasma holes. cut them undersize kiss both sides with a grinder/sander, drill the hole to size then counter sink. We do them quit a bit. As said above drill bits are easier to sharpen. As far as sharpening countersinks I use single flute countersinks and in a pinch they are not to hard to resharpen but I generally send them to the same shop that sharpens my coldsaw blades. They charge around 6 bucks to sharpen the countersinks.

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    Re: Getting countersinks sharpened?

    Perhaps you could keep some old ones and sharpen them at least well enough to de-nitride the edges then use something more precise/expensive. I have never sharpened a counter sink bit however it doesn't look too difficult to put an edge on it that will debur.

    If you have not, look at some vids on tool but sharpening.

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    Re: Getting countersinks sharpened?

    I have a different way of drilling holes for plasma cut parts. I set my DXF file up with all the hole locations as center punches using 20 amp plasma dimples. Then go back and cut the parts out at higher amps due to the thickness of the metal. I then use a center drill to open up the dimples and standard drills to finish the hole to size.
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    Re: Getting countersinks sharpened?

    I have always preferred UNI-FLUTE CHAMFER or countersink to any multi flute, they have much less tendency to chatter and are SIMPLE to sharpen. The equa-distant flutes on a multi-flute are very conducive to chatter, I personally think they would be much better if they staggered the flute pacing to eliminate the harmonics, much the same as variable pitch sawblades. I sharpened a few multi-flute back in the machinist days using the toolpost grinder and proper angles & offsets. I agree that cost may be prohibitive especially without proper grinders.
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    Re: Getting countersinks sharpened?

    Anyone tried indexable countersinks? Seems like a good solution to my troubles...

    Im curious as well if the carbide would stand up to the hardened edges.
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    Re: Getting countersinks sharpened?

    They are up to a point.. i use them at work. I wouldn't buy one for home use ... i would buy carbide, but not the whole ball of wax..

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    Re: Getting countersinks sharpened?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mac's Crew View Post
    They are up to a point.. i use them at work. I wouldn't buy one for home use ... i would buy carbide, but not the whole ball of wax..

    Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
    im guessing theyre gonna chatter?
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    Re: Getting countersinks sharpened?

    You find the single flue does not chatter.
    The other that does not chatter is 9 or flutes a pain to sharpen.
    I have very little chatter with drill bits it how sharpen make chatter or no chatter.
    I lost count how many counter sink holes I and shop. Built over 20,000 door opening with 2 to 8 leafs each opening and 16 counter sink per leaf. It is a big number. Has time find how to counter sink.
    The first 1,000 was not best in time they look great ever time.
    So just take few and you too have great counter sinks

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by BrooklynBravest View Post
    im guessing theyre gonna chatter?

  26. #24
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    Re: Getting countersinks sharpened?

    Quote Originally Posted by smithdoor View Post
    You find the single flue does not chatter.
    The other that does not chatter is 9 or flutes a pain to sharpen.
    I have very little chatter with drill bits it how sharpen make chatter or no chatter.
    I lost count how many counter sink holes I and shop. Built over 20,000 door opening with 2 to 8 leafs each opening and 16 counter sink per leaf. It is a big number. Has time find how to counter sink.
    The first 1,000 was not best in time they look great ever time.
    So just take few and you too have great counter sinks

    Dave
    The chatter was in reference specifically to the single insert indexable countersinks.
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    Re: Getting countersinks sharpened?

    I have never used index type countersink

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by BrooklynBravest View Post
    The chatter was in reference specifically to the single insert indexable countersinks.

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