New Wire Pull

[Mr.GfC]

Hey Folks, I'm building a new shop with the PVC in the floor and ceiling, and cutting out the brick to inset the outlets in the walls. I'm even taking the time to taper the edges of the PVC tubing where they are joined, so that there are no sharp edges for the wire to be pulled past/around.
I was able to pull a 3 wire for 3 Phase with no return or ground. (down here, grounding doesn't exist.) I tried to get a grounding wire attached to the new structural rebar, but it didn't take.
So, my question is this, I was only able to afford 10AWG to pull from the meter to connect to a 33 amp breaker. I'm also pulling the 10AWG throughout the shop as the primary supply line.
12AWG is used in a few outlets and I'm pulling 14AWG through to all the lights.
Is 10AWG adequate? Or just barely enough?
I've got a friend who's built a woodshop in his home and he swears that the 10AWG wire is more than enough, even for the welder. I had to replace the plug on the welder to get an end on it that would plug into the outlets and the 10AWG is larger the wire in the welders power cord.

Any thoughts?

[smithdoor]

What size is your conduit.
10 gauge will work for three phase welders.

The latest code I read
14ga is 15 amps
12ga is 20 amps
10ga is 30 amps
The bond aka ground is one size below the main wires.
You may want a neutral for 120volts too.

All Gauges great is you need chart.

Dave

Hey Folks, I'm building a new shop with the PVC in the floor and ceiling, and cutting out the brick to inset the outlets in the walls. I'm even taking the time to taper the edges of the PVC tubing where they are joined, so that there are no sharp edges for the wire to be pulled past/around.
I was able to pull a 3 wire for 3 Phase with no return or ground. (down here, grounding doesn't exist.) I tried to get a grounding wire attached to the new structural rebar, but it didn't take.
So, my question is this, I was only able to afford 10AWG to pull from the meter to connect to a 33 amp breaker. I'm also pulling the 10AWG throughout the shop as the primary supply line.
12AWG is used in a few outlets and I'm pulling 14AWG through to all the lights.
Is 10AWG adequate? Or just barely enough?
I've got a friend who's built a woodshop in his home and he swears that the 10AWG wire is more than enough, even for the welder. I had to replace the plug on the welder to get an end on it that would plug into the outlets and the 10AWG is larger the wire in the welders power cord.

Any thoughts?

[scsmith42]

Wire current capacity is dependent upon overall length of the wire and the insulation rating on the wire. Most likely your 10 gauge wire will be adequate for a 33A service though.

[mla2ofus]

For the friends wood shop the 10 is probably OK. you need to consult a chart that says what size wire you need according to the length of run and maximum amps the welder will pull. Maybe I misunderstood but are you connecting all circuits to the 33 amp breaker?

[jpump5]

You didn’t mention what voltage you would be
running the welder on or how much it draws.

[smithdoor]

I have not seen a 33 amp breaker. Only 15, 20, 30, 40 amp and up breakers

Dave

Hey Folks, I'm building a new shop with the PVC in the floor and ceiling, and cutting out the brick to inset the outlets in the walls. I'm even taking the time to taper the edges of the PVC tubing where they are joined, so that there are no sharp edges for the wire to be pulled past/around.
I was able to pull a 3 wire for 3 Phase with no return or ground. (down here, grounding doesn't exist.) I tried to get a grounding wire attached to the new structural rebar, but it didn't take.
So, my question is this, I was only able to afford 10AWG to pull from the meter to connect to a 33 amp breaker. I'm also pulling the 10AWG throughout the shop as the primary supply line.
12AWG is used in a few outlets and I'm pulling 14AWG through to all the lights.
Is 10AWG adequate? Or just barely enough?
I've got a friend who's built a woodshop in his home and he swears that the 10AWG wire is more than enough, even for the welder. I had to replace the plug on the welder to get an end on it that would plug into the outlets and the 10AWG is larger the wire in the welders power cord.

Any thoughts?

[Mr.GfC]

Everything here in Peru is 220v 60Hz.
mla2ofus
Master Welder only my shop and bedroom will be on the 33amp breaker, but the 10AWG is the best wire available here. I'll be running a direct line from the breaker feed to the other box for the rest of the floor. (Just bedrooms)

[Mr.GfC]

For the friends wood shop the 10 is probably OK. you need to consult a chart that says what size wire you need according to the length of run and maximum amps the welder will pull. Maybe I misunderstood but are you connecting all circuits to the 33 amp breaker?

I'll pretty much only be running 1 machine at a time, other than the extractor when turning or welding. As to the welder, haven't been able to find any info on it. It's in my photo gallery. Here's what I just got off the back:

But, like I said, when I replaced the plug, the wire was around 12AWG.
There is no chart on the inside panel for setting..... nothing in the crappy book, and not a dang thing that I could find on the web.
I'm not going to be doing any regular fabrication. Just structural steel for windows, fixing the metal doors, maybe a metal tube fence around the front garden. Oh, and the security spikes they use down here. I'll get some pictures tomorrow.

[Mr.GfC]

What size is your conduit.
10 gauge will work for three phase welders.

The latest code I read
14ga is 15 amps
12ga is 20 amps
10ga is 30 amps
The bond aka ground is one size below the main wires.
You may want a neutral for 120volts too.

All Gauges great is you need chart.

Dave

It's all 220v 60Hz here. I've pulled 3x 10AWG through a 1" PVC conduit, and will be using the 1" throughout the entire shop with the 10AWG.

[danielplace]

No matter how you split up your loads other loads will be on at least one of the welders two legs and everything being 220 only the third leg is limited too since it is a pair to at least one of the other two you are already using for the welder. You will still have a little left over but not much if welder is cranked up.
That third leg that has no welder load can't be utilized much when welder is drawing a load. Bummer. No return or 110 splitting your 220 changes the way you have to think about using the 3 phase.

[smithdoor]

That is good news for you.
From the photo of welder it is the right size.

1" conduit you can pull larger wire later.
How long is your conduit pull.

Are in the North American if so do you have 120 volt power.
In North American we use 120 volts and that can be helpful later.

Dave

It's all 220v 60Hz here. I've pulled 3x 10AWG through a 1" PVC conduit, and will be using the 1" throughout the entire shop with the 10AWG.

[smithdoor]

I did see until now you only have 220

Save

[danielplace]

I did see until now you only have 220

Save

And welder is singe phase only using two legs.

But with only 220 power everything they use the third leg unloaded leg will never be able to be utilized fully with the welder running because all 220 would also be on one of the welders legs at the same time limiting what that 3rd one can run.

[smithdoor]

The size you will work
As you do plan using the old ac welders and say with three phase welders.
In USA and Canada you need to run a bond/ground wire from the meter
Other than that you good to go.

Dave

And welder is singe phase only using two legs.

But with only 220 power everything they use the third leg unloaded leg will never be able to be utilized fully with the welder running because all 220 would also be on one of the welders legs at the same time limiting what that 3rd one can run.

[danielplace]

The size you will work
As you do plan using the old ac welders and say with three phase welders.
In USA and Canada you need to run a bond/ground wire from the meter
Other than that you good to go.

Dave

It's a single phase welder he is using. Nameplate shows 1Ø

[Broccoli1]

Nr. GFC,

Regarding this: "But, like I said, when I replaced the plug, the wire was around 12AWG."

Power cords for welding machines are sized smaller than what seems like normal practice due to the duty cycle of each machine.

It gets confooosing for sure for the weekend warrior trying to size circuits.

[Mr.GfC]

The size you will work
As you do plan using the old ac welders and say with three phase welders.
In USA and Canada you need to run a bond/ground wire from the meter
Other than that you good to go.

Dave

From/in the meter, there are only 2 lines. When they install 3 phase, there will only be 3. I tried to get a ground through the new rebar but it didn't take.

It's a single phase welder he is using. Nameplate shows 1Ø

If I'm able to get the 3rd phase installed, the shop will be the only part of the house on it. When welding, I'll have a fan or the extractor running, which has 14 or 16AWG wire supplying it. All the lighting will be LED lights on flex tubing. Since there are only TV's (plasma) and a couple of fridges on the 2 primary, with fluorescent bulbs.... there's not a big draw downstairs. Other than the new air compressor (2.5Hp) almost all of my other equipment utilize washing machine motors. Pluss, I'm the only one using the hop. Mostly for turning woon on my lathe.
The welding is mostly for windows, rebuilding doors, gates, household stuff. I'm not even sure I'll ever need to turn the welder even half way up on the Amps. Speaking of which, don't the new machines utilize electronics like capacitors to build up and store Amps for it's working cycle?

What is "1Ø"

[danielplace]

What is "1Ø"

It is symbol for single phase.

[Mr.GfC]

sorry, doubled my last post

[Mr.GfC]

That is good news for you.
From the photo of welder it is the right size.

1" conduit you can pull larger wire later.
How long is your conduit pull.

Are in the North American if so do you have 120 volt power.
In North American we use 120 volts and that can be helpful later.

Dave

By the way, I am from Houston Texas. Use to have my contractors Lic. for construction in Florida.

[smithdoor]

He is not in the USA
He lives part of world where NEC is not used. Even the color code for wires maybe different.

Dave

By the way, I am from Houston Texas. Use to have my contractors Lic. for construction in Florida.

[smithdoor]

Try this one
There is parts of world that does no know of Ufer ground.

Dave

By the way, I am from Houston Texas. Use to have my contractors Lic. for construction in Florida.

[William McCormick]

Try this one
There is parts of world that does no know of Ufer ground.

Dave

That is why you see the videos of people going to convenience stores and getting electrocuted touching the refrigerator unit's glass door handle.

Sincerely,

William McCormick

[Mr.GfC]

That is why you see the videos of people going to convenience stores and getting electrocuted touching the refrigerator unit's glass door handle.

Sincerely,

William McCormick

lol... I watched that on the news here in Lima a few weeks ago.

Try this one
There is parts of world that does no know of Ufer ground.

Dave

Only the big commercial buildings get ground wires or a neutral. All the old neighborhoods have 3 wire-3phase and no ground. I tried to get a ground to the new rebar before the cement was poured for the ceiling, but it didn't take.

He is not in the USA
He lives part of world where NEC is not used. Even the color code for wires maybe different.

Dave

Entering the box from the supply, there are 1 red, 1 white, 1 black. 3 wire for 3 phase and no neutral. I think it's called Delta?

For the friends wood shop the 10 is probably OK. you need to consult a chart that says what size wire you need according to the length of run and maximum amps the welder will pull. Maybe I misunderstood but are you connecting all circuits to the 33 amp breaker?

and this is what they have as a fuse at the meter..... no breaker.

I have not seen a 33 amp breaker. Only 15, 20, 30, 40 amp and up breakers

Dave

Look at the picture above. Now you have... lol C32 amp. sorry.

Down the road, I'm going to see about getting a completely separate meter installed "if" if I can ever afford to get the lube sent down to try and pull 4AWG to where the new meter would be installed. Until then, I'll just get a 60amp 3 phase installed for the house with a breaker, instead of that dang old timer fuse.
Like I said though, welding isn't my primary, it's totally utilitarian for household stuff. When I get a good table saw and build a Thickness sander, they'll probably be the only 3phase motors in the shop, unless I'm able to buy a big air-compressor upgrade.
One day, I would like to build a multi purpose CNC table that I could switch out a milling head with a Laser, and a plasma cutter. But still, nothing commercial grade.

My goal for my shop is to be able to make toys for the public schools that have nothing for the 4-6 year olds to play with, other than broken plastic crap from China. Chess-sets for the older kids, and then what my son needs to learn basic wood-working, welding, and blacksmithing. He wants to learn to make knives.
Thanks for the info guys.

[William McCormick]

lol... I watched that on the news here in Lima a few weeks ago.



Only the big commercial buildings get ground wires or a neutral. All the old neighborhoods have 3 wire-3phase and no ground. I tried to get a ground to the new rebar before the cement was poured for the ceiling, but it didn't take.



Entering the box from the supply, there are 1 red, 1 white, 1 black. 3 wire for 3 phase and no neutral. I think it's called Delta?



and this is what they have as a fuse at the meter..... no breaker.


Look at the picture above. Now you have... lol C32 amp. sorry.

Down the road, I'm going to see about getting a completely separate meter installed "if" if I can ever afford to get the lube sent down to try and pull 4AWG to where the new meter would be installed. Until then, I'll just get a 60amp 3 phase installed for the house with a breaker, instead of that dang old timer fuse.
Like I said though, welding isn't my primary, it's totally utilitarian for household stuff. When I get a good table saw and build a Thickness sander, they'll probably be the only 3phase motors in the shop, unless I'm able to buy a big air-compressor upgrade.
One day, I would like to build a multi purpose CNC table that I could switch out a milling head with a Laser, and a plasma cutter. But still, nothing commercial grade.

My goal for my shop is to be able to make toys for the public schools that have nothing for the 4-6 year olds to play with, other than broken plastic crap from China. Chess-sets for the older kids, and then what my son needs to learn basic wood-working, welding, and blacksmithing. He wants to learn to make knives.
Thanks for the info guys.

You can get some strange static type charges from ungrounded air compressors as well. Here we ground to the water main as well as the power company supplied neutral that fails now and then. I have measured over 20 amps with a clamp-on amp meter, around the one-inch water main, which was a K-copper pipe. I watched the water meter guy replace the meter and even with his jumper wires across the meter, the meter sparked when he took it out and put in a new one.

Sincerely,

William McCormick