Opinion about welder I hired (HELP!)

[Weltek]

So I hired this guy to build a couple decks and a carport for me. In general he does nice looking work, but it seems to me he sorta half-asses some of it. You tell me what you think. I may post pics tomorrow.

For instance, on the handrail and balusters. He only welds maybe two of the four sides on both the top and bottom of the baluster. He says that is "standard practice". I call BS. It's not that they aren't solid. It just looks like it's incomplete to me. Also, I don't want water getting in, so before he painted I used POR15 seam sealer to at least keep the water out.

There are a few places where he didn't box in the end of a square post, and wouldn't have unless I complained. On the end of a handrail no less.

This is starting to bother me a lot and I thought I would consult you PROs to see what you thought.

Thanks

[12V71]

Since you are paying him to do the job, you make the rules that he has to abide by. If he refuses, find some one else and kick him to the curb.

Yep, I hired a guy once that constantly said "That not the way we did it" (his former job). Duh, that's why they are out of business. He didn't last long with me.
I don't think that I'm being a jerk telling them "Me BOSS... You not, do as I say or hit the highway". If I'm paying you, You do it MY way. Simple.

[ronsii]

I guess it depends a lot on *how* you hired him to do the work.... is this a bid job??? or are you paying him by the hour???

[shovelon]

Very observant of you and insist on welding joints exposed to weather to be closed. If he won't do it ask for him to use paintable silicone to close them. Any water that gets in will initiate corrosion period. That is standard practice in my shop. We will even put weep holes where required.

[Weltek]

To answer one question - he is being paid by a bid we agreed and signed a contract on. I have pointed to a few things and said "FIX THAT" and it has been done, but IMO, I should not have had to say it. As an amateur welder (SUB amateur.. ) even I know that is not acceptable practice.

I found a couple of pics. In first pic on left you can see only partially welded rails, and on right you can see the three rails that have been left open on the top end, and welded closed on the bottom end, which basically makes them water holders.

In the second pic, you can see the open ends on the bottom of the stair stringer. WHISKEY. TANGO.. FOXTROT???

[Weltek]

To be completely fair... This is a pic of part of the nearly finished product, and I am mostly thrilled with it. But I am paying for it, and I want what I want. It wouldn't be as nice as it is if I had not been picky about the previously mentioned problems.

[M J D]

Why wouldn't those rails be butted into the post? That entire thing looks like a collosal clusterfluck in my opinion.

[Weltek]

There is a bit of clusterfluckery going on, but I can get through it. Unfortunately some people have weird ideas...

[farmersammm]

Don't believe I'd be thrilled with that mess either.

[ronsii]

Well if we bid a job it is by our rules and not by how someone else thinks it should be done.... unless you discussed the finer points before the job commenced on exactly how he was to actually weld ends, full coverage welds, weep holes, etc... then basically you're changing the rules mid play! Sorry but we run into this all the time when giving out bids... we have ways the WE do things whether it be welding, dirt work, concrete work, demo work, etc.... we use the ways that work best for us and are an ''accepted best practice" in the field we are working. I actually just did an indoor warehouse job that most guys would have brought in specialized excavation equipment for... the boss even bid it high just because he didn't want to work for the guy as he is a backstabbing jackoff(but that's another story ) I completed the job in less than 2 full days and this guy had already rented various equipment and blew over a week futzing around!!! My end product met his specs and was done way under budget for what the boss figured and the customer didn't want to pay the bid amount because it only took me 2 days!!! and even he figured I would be there well over a week or two but that's why we are the experts at what we do and can do it cheaper than the other guys was actually funny to see the look on the guys face when I showed up with my 'tools' to do the job.... the kind of look that says "Well I could've done that... duh!!!"

[Welder Dave]

I'd guess because the bottom post is outside the steps. A much better design would be to put the bottom post past the end of steps so the side rails can be butted into the larger posts. Whose idea was it to do it that way? Any self respecting welder would have seen a problem instantly. Did the guy not have a bevel to set the angle? Looks like everything was cut square which would be the easiest labor wise but not aesthetics wise. If you can I would change it so it looks professional.

[tapwelder]

Tread lightly. It won"t be cheap to get that cleaned up, if he decides to walk.

What evidence did you have that lead you to believe he does nice work?

Is this a side job for him? He probably does nice work for the company he works for. They provide a climate controlled shop, a variety of tools and a team. It is hard to leave that for a mig welder, chop saw and a table made of dirt.

[tapwelder]

If that is the case, neither you or your company would never work for me. If I am paying the money, you and your company would do it my way or both of you would be shown the highway regardless if you or your company thinks you or them thinks you or their idea is correct or not! Dont forget, the customer is always correct regardless if the are or not!

At some point expectation should be discussed. Too many customers don't know what they want , but discover what the don't want after product is complete. It is not fair to the craftsman, we're not slaves. Clients can steal a lot of time changing stuff after the fact.

[ronsii]

If that is the case, neither you or your company would never work for me. If I am paying the money, you and your company would do it my way or both of you would be shown the highway regardless if you or your company thinks you or them thinks you or their idea is correct or not! Dont forget, the customer is always correct regardless if the are or not!

Sorry... but in the real world we do hundreds of jobs every year that are done to our specs and our procedures... if we started doing things the way people with no experience wanted we'd go broke in no time at all While I don't do railings like the OP posted up I have seen plenty of work like that before on jobs... it's all in how someone does it and there wasn't proper planning on that job for sure if you wanted an aesthetically pleasing finished product... If you want something done a certain way then you had better be VERY specific about it and then see whether you like the bid... because a bid is a for them to do something their way... unless you discussed doing it a different way prior to the bid... The point is WE know how work is done most of our customers don't have a clue about how it is done period... we will gladly listen to their suggestions if they want to offer them up when we are already working on the project and sometimes we'll even be kind and tell them in a polite way why their idea won't work in the long run but sounds great!!!

The customer is only right if they are paying to be right... so if we are working on a bid amount we are right

[shovelon]

Sorry... but in the real world we do hundreds of jobs every year that are done to our specs and our procedures... if we started doing things the way people with no experience wanted we'd go broke in no time at all While I don't do railings like the OP posted up I have seen plenty of work like that before on jobs... it's all in how someone does it and there wasn't proper planning on that job for sure if you wanted an aesthetically pleasing finished product... If you want something done a certain way then you had better be VERY specific about it and then see whether you like the bid... because a bid is a for them to do something their way... unless you discussed doing it a different way prior to the bid... The point is WE know how work is done most of our customers don't have a clue about how it is done period... we will gladly listen to their suggestions if they want to offer them up when we are already working on the project and sometimes we'll even be kind and tell them in a polite way why their idea won't work in the long run but sounds great!!!

The customer is only right if they are paying to be right... so if we are working on a bid amount we are right

How many employees do you sign payroll for?

[Ron_J]

To the OP, I feel your pain. This is why I like to DIY...even if it is above my current skillset. I may screw it up a time or two before I get it right, but I always end up with something real close to what I had in mind.

I recently had a contractor come in and build a garage for me. I just didn't want to mess with it all summer and he was cheap! I had seen several garages that he had built and knew what to expect and was okay with it given the price. He was doing everything but the electrical and interior work.

But, he was cheap for a reason. Not necessarily that he cut corners, but he did things that made it harder for me to finish the inside.

If I had it to do again, I would have made a list of "musts" before he started. But, I didn't know how he was going to do it, and didn't think to go through the particulars. It sounds like you are in the same situation.

[TJS]

It is called scope creep,(scope creep is adding and making changes to the original requirements, NOT WORK QUALITY) however how would the customer know the details of this mess before the said "professional" began the job. I had the same situation on a deck a "professional" built at my house. He had a photo album that was unreal. I was sold. When he started building the deck and hacking it all up I fired him. He made such a mess I had to rip it all out and start over down to the cement sonit tubes (had to rip them out as well).
To the OP. I would not accept those open water holders. I am sure if you have it inspected by your homeowners insurance it would get a fail (where the rails are not butted to the post). I know in my area that would be a fail.

[Rangerhgm]

1st pic Why would he butt the horizontal rails into the end post and NOT butt the rails into it for the railing? I would be fit to be tied if someone welded it that way for me.

[BD1]

My condolences.
This is so wrong in so many ways.


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[Kelvin]

That railing looks nearly heavy enough to tip the house over. Couldn't he have used railroad rail to build it? You trying to keep loaded forklifts from going through the rail and falling off the deck?

[CrookedRoads]

Any bozo can stick some metal together but to call this guy a welder is just an insult to any real tradesman, I can only hope that you got the job cheap enough to justify the cost of maintenance your going to have with this mess in the future.

[ronsii]

How many employees do you sign payroll for?

My company is just a small mfg. co. so just a few of us, the company I work for is a bit bigger but still on the small side we add employees when he need to but the boss has ran dozens before just doesn't want to hassle involved with that anymore It's the same with my company if I HAD to listen to the customer telling me HOW I needed to make something I would be out of business in no time flat... They tell me what they want and any specifications that go with it and I simply fill the order-- simple as that But when you have a customer that either changes their mind or doesn't like the 'look' of something as the job progresses then it's a whole different story... this is why there are 'detail sheets' on the plans in most construction projects I am sure you know and understand that all too well in the things you do.

[tapwelder]

I would say the guy can weld. He is stick welding thin wall material and it looks pretty good. Stick welding it is probably why he is not welding all the way around.

He is failing in fabrication and planning.

At second glance...this is probably not as bad overall as it look from these photos.

Get or make caps.

Why not move the rail atop the stringer. Then the Balusters are not open. Not a lot to undo there.

[ljdm]

Ouch! Sorry, but it's just plain old Fugly. Looks like poor planning on his part.

[Weltek]

Like I said before, there are many points I am happy with. The railing being on the side isn't killing me. And he does build stuff on the heavy-duty side, which is cool with me. I just don't like open ends, and it seems to me that most guys would weld all four sides of a joint. Just wondered if you would agree.

I appreciate the replies.