Frustrating people

[Welder Dave]

On another forum a self proclaimed equipment expert claimed Dual-Shield Flux-Core is a MIG process. If it was someone else wouldn't be a big deal but the guy has a big ego and tries to discredit me and call me out every chance he gets. He claims I'm not qualified to give repair advice on equipment because I'm not a mechanic, among other things. I explained the differences between the different wire feed processes and that Flux-Core is not an inert process. Man I sure felt like telling him he's not qualified to give welding advice. Really doubt he's going to admit he was wrong but curious how arrogant he's going to be with his excuses. What's the best way to deal with people like this?

[Mikel_24]

I would say to just ignore him. He made his points, you made yours. Anyone else out there is free to choose either advice/information and contrasting it somewhere else. Or in the books, which exist for a reason. I don't think anyone is going to take any of you liable of stating something not accurare over the internet.

Some people just think that any process WIRE FEED is MIG... MIG/MAG depends (as far as I know) of the gas mixture used. As long as you are using pure argon, it is MIG. Anything else (CO2, Helium, trimix, etc) it becomes MAG, as those gases have an effect on the weld (more than just shielding it from the atmosphere).

Just forget about it. Not worth the effort.

Mikel

[denlow60]

I would say to just ignore him. He made his points, you made yours. Anyone else out there is free to choose either advice/information and contrasting it somewhere else. Or in the books, which exist for a reason. I don't think anyone is going to take any of you liable of stating something not accurare over the internet.

Some people just think that any process WIRE FEED is MIG... MIG/MAG depends (as far as I know) of the gas mixture used. As long as you are using pure argon, it is MIG. Anything else (CO2, Helium, trimix, etc) it becomes MAG, as those gases have an effect on the weld (more than just shielding it from the atmosphere).

Just forget about it. Not worth the effort.

Mikel

Helium is an inert gas and not an active gas

[Hobbytime]

On another forum a self proclaimed equipment expert claimed Dual-Shield Flux-Core is a MIG process. If it was someone else wouldn't be a big deal but the guy has a big ego and tries to discredit me and call me out every chance he gets. He claims I'm not qualified to give repair advice on equipment because I'm not a mechanic, among other things. I explained the differences between the different wire feed processes and that Flux-Core is not an inert process. Man I sure felt like telling him he's not qualified to give welding advice. Really doubt he's going to admit he was wrong but curious how arrogant he's going to be with his excuses. What's the best way to deal with people like this?

lmfao...that says it all...some people just dont have a thick skin to let internet BS roll off their back and take it personal...

[mla2ofus]

Just tell him "If I agree with you we'll both be wrong".

[snoeproe]

On another forum a self proclaimed equipment expert claimed Dual-Shield Flux-Core is a MIG process. If it was someone else wouldn't be a big deal but the guy has a big ego and tries to discredit me and call me out every chance he gets. He claims I'm not qualified to give repair advice on equipment because I'm not a mechanic, among other things. I explained the differences between the different wire feed processes and that Flux-Core is not an inert process. Man I sure felt like telling him he's not qualified to give welding advice. Really doubt he's going to admit he was wrong but curious how arrogant he's going to be with his excuses. What's the best way to deal with people like this?

This is one problem with online blogs. You always run into someone who is an expert, or atleast acts like they’re an expert. When you question something they say that you know isn’t correct, they take is as a personal insult. Like your insulting them personally.
Over the years I’ve had to learn to just leave it be. It’s not worth my time or aggravation to argue online with an idiot whom I’ve never met and never will.

[MinnesotaDave]

This is one problem with online blogs. You always run into someone who is an expert, or atleast acts like they’re an expert. When you question something they say that you know isn’t correct, they take is as a personal insult. Like your insulting them personally.
Over the years I’ve had to learn to just leave it be. It’s not worth my time or aggravation to argue online with an idiot whom I’ve never met and never will.

But the internet would die on the vine if everyone did that...90% of the content is arguing with idiots....

...and 72% of percentages are made up on the spot...

[walker]

You found an uneducated jackass on the internet?!? Next thing your going to tell me is the president sends out tweets that are often lies. What is the world coming to.

[gregket1]

claimed Dual-Shield Flux-Core is a MIG process.

This from a non-professional welder looking for clarification..

What is your distinction? Dual-Shield implies Flux-core + Gas-Shielding.

If you are using gas-shielding out of a MIG welder, isn’t that MIG?


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[M J D]

Dual shield is a Mig process. Innershied type flux core wouldn't be, but a Mig welder is most often used for that process. Lots of areas for confusion on that topic.

[gregket1]

. Lots of areas for confusion on that topic.

No kidding! I’ve been reading the LincolnElectric “Process and Theory” page.

Technically, there can be little argument that Dual-Shield would be classified as GMAW.

But the LE site says “GMAW as identified by the American Welding Society, is also popularly known as MIG (Metal Inert Gas) and uses a continuous solid wire electrode for filler metal and an externally supplied gas(typically from a high-pressure cylinder) for shielding. “

So LE is saying all GMAW is MIG

And in another paper LE says that CO2 is inert, but only while in the bottle. Once it hits the weld plasma it becomes active.

Wow.


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[BaTu]

From what I've seen of your posts here, I think you should consider, that this guys might have a point...

It's perfectly transparent to me that you respond to any post, on just about any subject, often with freshly retrieved Googled results

[gregket1]

From what I've seen of your posts here, I think you should consider, that this guys might have a point...

It's perfectly transparent to me that you respond to any post, on just about any subject, often with freshly retrieved Googled results

Was that to me?
I can’t see how since I only have a dozen posts total... but if it was, I never said he was wrong. In fact I very clearly said I was looking for clarification to help me understand. And googling information from reliable sources is one way to expand knowledge. Asking for info from the professionals is another.

[Oscar]

This from a non-professional welder looking for clarification..

What is your distinction? Dual-Shield implies Flux-core + Gas-Shielding.

If you are using gas-shielding out of a MIG welder, isn’t that MIG?


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IMO, what it comes down to is spoken/written convention vs technical definition(s), with respect to how someone is used to talking about it in their respective geographical location, and with what the acronym really represents when broken down to the actual meanings. I own several MIG welders, yet I never use the MIG process (unless I happen to use aluminum wire). Yet I call them MIG welders, as does the vendor, as does almost anyone else here in the USA. But look up videos on YouTube from European welder manufacturers, and more often than not you will hear the voice-over stating "MIG/MAG", because technically it is more accurate and that seems to be how they refer to them in Europe and possibly other parts of the world. So to answer your question gregket1, tell me: what is MIG? Define it. When you answer that question you will have the answer to your question. (hopefully )

[BaTu]

Was that to me?

Absolutely Not!!!

I am responding to the opening post by Welder Dave. I think I have felt the same way as his critic does on, whatever, the other forum is. If you have some expertise, some actual experience, with the subject at hand then post your own opinion. If you don't, then self-appointing yourself the "expert researcher", as Dave seems to feel entitled, is kinda Annoying...

[Welder Dave]

You'd run into a problem if someone told you to Mig weld something when they actually meant Dual-Shield. They aren't interchangeable. I have considerable welding experience.

[MinnesotaDave]

Easiest way I've found to make sure people know what I'm saying is call them all a "wire feed process."

I specify when I mean solid wire mig, self-shielded flux core, gas-shielded flux core, specific gas and wire, etc..

[BaTu]

You'd run into a problem if someone told you to Mig weld something when they actually meant Dual-Shield. They aren't interchangeable. I have considerable welding experience.

OK, I'll except that that might be true and maybe you're even a Mig Guru! BUT,,, that doesn't qualify you to comment on every welding method where you are not and fill-in that lack of experience with Google generated links. Not to mention every other subject in the world

He claims I'm not qualified to give repair advice on equipment because I'm not a mechanic, among other things.

Have you had this happen? You're sitting down to lunch with "the guys", and one of those new Amazon Sprinter trucks drives by. You say to the group "I'm seeing more & more of those around lately". Somebody else says "Have you seen the distribution warehouse on RT25?" And the conversation turns to something else.

Meanwhile,, there's a subtle clacking going on... There's a Dweeb at the table who's just signed-on to the restaurants WiFi and, 3mins later, announces to the table "Amazon has purchased 330K new sm delivery trucks in 2020, with plans for an additional 700K over the next two years. Many of these new trucks will be electrically powered with hopes of being 100% electric in the next 10"

And you think " STFU Already - will ya?" And what drives these sad individuals to need this validation on every subject? To be the Answer Expert just looking for an excuse...

I donno man,,, you remind me of that guy

[M J D]

There's lots of ways to describe it. To me hard wire is mig solid wire like 70s6. Dual shield is what it is, flux core gas shielded, a mig process with a mig welding machine. Flux core is self shielded wire almost always done with a mig welding machine but could be used with a CC power source and a feeder. Metal core shielded is a mig process using a metal core wire with gas. Using the shielding gas would dictate whether the process is MIG or something else.

[sapperb]

Remember, fighting on the internet is like winning the Special Olympics..Even though you win, you are still retarded....I don't deal with key board tough guys.....Tell em to go pound sand..

[denlow60]

IMO, what it comes down to is spoken/written convention vs technical definition(s), with respect to how someone is used to talking about it in their respective geographical location, and with what the acronym really represents when broken down to the actual meanings. I own several MIG welders, yet I never use the MIG process (unless I happen to use aluminum wire). Yet I call them MIG welders, as does the vendor, as does almost anyone else here in the USA. But look up videos on YouTube from European welder manufacturers, and more often than not you will hear the voice-over stating "MIG/MAG", because technically it is more accurate and that seems to be how they refer to them in Europe and possibly other parts of the world. So to answer your question gregket1, tell me: what is MIG? Define it. When you answer that question you will have the answer to your question. (hopefully )

I wanted to respond to this because I am from Europe

(MIG) metal inert gas, (MAG) metal active gas. You can weld with the same welding machine for the welding processes, with MIG welding you use inert gas (pure argon).
With MAG welding you use mixed gas 75/80% argon / 20/25% CO2 or active gas 100% CO2
we say here in the Netherlands that Dual-Shield Flux-Core is a MAG welding process.
you weld this wire with a mixed gas of argon / CO2 or pure CO2, it is what the manufacturer of the wire proposes.

[Oscar]

I wanted to respond to this because I am from Europe

(MIG) metal inert gas, (MAG) metal active gas. You can weld with the same welding machine for the welding processes, with MIG welding you use inert gas (pure argon).
With MAG welding you use mixed gas 75/80% argon / 20/25% CO2 or active gas 100% CO2
we say here in the Netherlands that Dual-Shield Flux-Core is a MAG welding process.
you weld this wire with a mixed gas of argon / CO2 or pure CO2, it is what the manufacturer of the wire proposes.

Thank you, it exactly validates my point where location also plays a part in what someone calls a certain process. I use my "MIG" welder to weld with gas-shielded flux core wire using C25, which is an active gas mixture. Even though I know it is MAG process, I still refer to my welder as a "MIG" welder, even though I know better.

[CrookedRoads]

In my world if a person is a good welder that shows up for work and can make me money they can call the welding machine whatever they want.

[Oscar]

[Welder Dave]

Perhaps AWS has their own designations to avoid all the confusion.