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Thread: Frustrating people

  1. #26
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    Re: Frustrating people

    Perhaps AWS has their own designations to avoid all the confusion.

  2. #27
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    Re: Frustrating people

    Quote Originally Posted by Welder Dave View Post
    Perhaps AWS has their own designations to avoid all the confusion.
    The problem with AWS is that it's AWS. Get it?
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  3. #28
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    Re: Frustrating people

    Quote Originally Posted by CrookedRoads View Post
    In my world if a person is a good welder that shows up for work and can make me money they can call the welding machine whatever they want.
    I know you haven't thought about this. but I don't think this is a statement for a businessman.

    Look at the 2 images below and ask yourself what you have said is wise.

    if you tell someone to weld a Z4 filletweld and he makes a Z6 or and Z8 for you.
    how do you want to make a profit if that person weld your profit by laying a weld of Z6.
    that is why knowledge is very important.

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  4. #29
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    Re: Frustrating people

    A few year guy on internet taking about Lincoln NR welding wire.
    He said NR is for North Ridge earthquake
    But the NR was around be for the earthquake .
    Finally I call Lincoln about NR was around long be for the earthquake

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by Welder Dave View Post
    On another forum a self proclaimed equipment expert claimed Dual-Shield Flux-Core is a MIG process. If it was someone else wouldn't be a big deal but the guy has a big ego and tries to discredit me and call me out every chance he gets. He claims I'm not qualified to give repair advice on equipment because I'm not a mechanic, among other things. I explained the differences between the different wire feed processes and that Flux-Core is not an inert process. Man I sure felt like telling him he's not qualified to give welding advice. Really doubt he's going to admit he was wrong but curious how arrogant he's going to be with his excuses. What's the best way to deal with people like this?

  5. #30
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    Re: Frustrating people

    Quote Originally Posted by denlow60 View Post
    Helium is an inert gas and not an active gas
    Oooooops! Sorry, my bad! You are completly right.

    I was somewhat mistaken because helium seems to be commonly used to provide hotter welds when doing aluminum TIG (mixed with ARgon) and somehow I thought it had some effect on it. But probably has to do with the shielding characteristics more than being active/inert).

    Mikel

  6. #31
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    Re: Frustrating people

    Oscar and Denlow seem to have grasped the situtation perfectly.
    Most people will just say "mig welding" out of force of habit, including myself, and some people don't know any better.
    I remember when I was younger and less educated thinking "I'd sure like to see what MAG welding looks like, it sounds exotic" whilst using steel wire and 93/5/2 gas mix on my mig welder...
    I've found the only people in this country who actively call it MAG welding, are weld inspectors who use proper definitions every day.

    Is H2 an active or inert gas, in respect to welding? It doesn't undergo chemical changes in the metal, so in essence it's inert... but it's not a noble gas... one to think about reading around, it looks like it comes under "inert" definition.

    TL;DR:
    MIG welding with inert gas (Ar, He, etc)
    MAG welding with any proportion of active gas (CO2, O2, etc)
    Last edited by Munkul; 4 Weeks Ago at 06:58 AM.

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  8. #32
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    Re: Frustrating people

    Is it a Hoagie, a grinder, a hero, or maybe you call it sub(marine sandwich). When the truck driver, or machine operator, or my neighbor asks me how I'm going to weld something back together for them, I generally reply MIG or TIG or STICK. Even when talking with engineers, technicians, or other welders you often hear them say "Can you MIG weld this with dual shield/solid wire/metal core ?" I just say yes. Is it perfectly correct? No, but its generally understood to mean a gas shielded wire feeder will be used.
    I wouldn't think it worth much time trying to convince someone on a welding board of something. Perhaps they do know your right, and just want to argue. Be the duck, let the water roller off, and paddle on.

    @ Munkul - What do they weld with Hydrogen (H2) ? Is it done in a purged container ? All I can think of is the quote "oh, the humanity!" (Hindenburg)




    So Helium is number 2 on the periodic chart, and Argon is Number 18. Right in between is another Noble Gas, Number 10 Neon.

    What about using neon ? Would the whole gas plume glow ?

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  9. #33
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    Re: Frustrating people

    Quote Originally Posted by denlow60 View Post
    I know you haven't thought about this. but I don't think this is a statement for a businessman.

    Look at the 2 images below and ask yourself what you have said is wise.

    if you tell someone to weld a Z4 filletweld and he makes a Z6 or and Z8 for you.
    how do you want to make a profit if that person weld your profit by laying a weld of Z6.
    that is why knowledge is very important.

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    Depends on whether your weldor understands how to measure the weld, which is by the throat. Thereby the specified "Z" measurement is the minimum allowed unless otherwise stated on drawing, P.O., or contract. Many times shops don't even forward the drawing or WPS to the weldor.
    Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR"
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  10. #34
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    Re: Frustrating people

    Yeah, the thickness of the thinner plate determines the fillet size. Putting a 4mm weld on 6mm plate is inadequate unless it specifies otherwise. Most weldors would know this. Ideally you want it slightly convex.

  11. #35
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    Frustrating people

    According to the AWS and CSA, flux cor welding has 2 classifications. FCAW-s and FCAW-g.
    S is self shielded wire and G is gas shielded flux cor wire (dual shield)
    The official classification title today for Mig is GMAW. Gas metal arc welding.


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  12. #36
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    Re: Frustrating people

    the previous images above pos 28.
    The 4 mm and the 6 mm are the leg size of the welds. the plates have the same thickness.


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  13. #37
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    Re: Frustrating people

    Quote Originally Posted by snoeproe View Post
    According to the AWS and CSA, flux cor welding has 2 classifications. FCAW-s and FCAW-g.
    S is self shielded wire and G is gas shielded flux cor wire (dual shield)
    The official classification title today for Mig is GMAW. Gas metal arc welding.


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    below you have a list you know and an image of a welding wire specification

    could you tell me in which group this welding wire can be placed?

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  14. #38
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    Re: Frustrating people

    70s-6 wire.
    A common wire for GMAW and GTAW
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  15. #39
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    Re: Frustrating people

    Quote Originally Posted by denlow60 View Post
    the previous images above pos 28.
    The 4 mm and the 6 mm are the leg size of the welds. the plates have the same thickness.


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    Original post did not list plate thickness or that it was the same.

  16. #40
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    Re: Frustrating people

    I posted on the other forum the AWS classifications.

  17. #41
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    Re: Frustrating people

    Quote Originally Posted by snoeproe View Post
    70s-6 wire.
    A common wire for GMAW and GTAW
    If this welding wire is placed in GMAW and it is welded with a MAG process, then MIG and MAG process are in the same group in AWS A2.4-2020.

    this is my point i want to make.

  18. #42
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    Frustrating people

    Mig amd Mag aren't really "official" terms for weld processes that are used anymore. They're both officially termed GMAW
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  19. #43
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    Re: Frustrating people

    Quote Originally Posted by snoeproe View Post
    Mig amd Mag aren't really "official" terms for weld processes that are used anymore. They're both officially termed GMAW
    Wait, wait, wait, so I've been posting in the wrong subforum here this whole time?!! I've been posting in the MIG, TIG, Stick, And Oxy/Fuel Welding subforum, but darn it I should have posted in the GMAW subforum! Dang it! j/k I'm only messing. Just goes to show how even here we use convention even though it's not official. Kinda of ironic if you think about all the discussion we've been having in this very thread, and then you look at the title of the subforum this thread was created in.
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  21. #44
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    Re: Frustrating people

    In the past, these were acronyms to describe official processes. The AWS has updated this stuff and no longer uses these terms.
    Tig was originally called Heli Arc welding process too. Helium was the original gas that was used for tig when it was discovered back in WW2 era. This has also been changed now.
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  23. #45
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    Re: Frustrating people

    First, you need to leave your feelings outside on the other side of the gate. And trying to change or deal with an a$$hat is only gonna bring you down to their level, and they will beat you from experience!


    Quote Originally Posted by MinnesotaDave View Post
    Easiest way I've found to make sure people know what I'm saying is call them all a "wire feed process."
    This


    I ALWAYS say I do stick, tig or heli-arc, and wire. When it comes to wire I weld with solid, outer shield, and inner shield, so I never say MIG.
    Last edited by Stick-man; 4 Weeks Ago at 07:06 PM.
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  25. #46
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    Re: Frustrating people

    I agree
    You just do want to say "you should see the other guy " and then till your wife why we a lawyer too.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by Stick-man View Post
    First, you need to leave your feelings outside on the other side of the gate. And trying to change or deal with an a$$hat is only gonna bring you down to their level, and they will beat you from experience!




    This


    I ALWAYS say I do stick, tig or heli-arc, and wire. When it comes to wire I weld with solid, outer shield, and inner shield, so I never say MIG.

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    Re: Frustrating people

    Quote Originally Posted by albrightree View Post
    @ Munkul - What do they weld with Hydrogen (H2) ? Is it done in a purged container ? All I can think of is the quote "oh, the humanity!" (Hindenburg)
    haha, believe it or not, it's used for TIG welding in the same way Helium is for stainless steel only, because hydrogen is bad for carbon steel. TimmyTIG on here has used it a few times for coded pipe welding, says its incredibly hot for the amps.

  27. #48
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    Re: Frustrating people

    It is just like talking about power going to the welder. If your a electrician you call it 240 or to try to remember to at least but it has been referred to as 220 for so long by so many people even a electrician may slip and call it 220. In US it is going to be 240 99% of the time if we don't consider 120Y208 3 phase systems. All single phase is 240+ volt in US. We just accept and know that when someone says a 220 outlet they mean 240. Not a big deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Munkul View Post
    haha, believe it or not, it's used for TIG welding in the same way Helium is for stainless steel only, because hydrogen is bad for carbon steel. TimmyTIG on here has used it a few times for coded pipe welding, says its incredibly hot for the amps.
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    Last edited by danielplace; 4 Weeks Ago at 08:26 AM.

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    Re: Frustrating people

    Quote Originally Posted by Munkul View Post
    haha, believe it or not, it's used for TIG welding in the same way Helium is for stainless steel only, because hydrogen is bad for carbon steel. TimmyTIG on here has used it a few times for coded pipe welding, says its incredibly hot for the amps.
    H2 is added in another gas for welding

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    Last edited by denlow60; 4 Weeks Ago at 08:33 AM.

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  31. #50
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    Re: Frustrating people

    No, I meant for welding, not as a fuel. Denlow60 has the gist of it. Used as Argon mixture shielding gas for TIG welding stainless steel.

    Interesting that they class it as a reducing mixture So means any free oxygen within the weld will preferentially form H2O rather than metal oxides.
    Every day is a school day - i thought it was chemically inert when used in TIG welding, but I was wrong. It makes perfect sense when you think about it - H2 + O2 + heat = H2O

    REDUCING (ACTIVE) GASES
    This is hydrogen and of course all blends such as argon/hydrogen
    Hydrogen is consuming oxygen and all oxidising gases; therefore it is called a reducing gas
    https://www.axxair.com/en/blog/influ...20conductivity.

    In that case, it should be called TAG welding - Tungsten Active Gas welding
    Last edited by Munkul; 4 Weeks Ago at 09:27 AM.

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