Multiprocess welder purchase - Miller vs ESAB vs Everlast

[YeeP]

Hello! I have read a couple of threads like this on here, so let me get to the details that seemed to be asked for everyone of these.

Details

• Budget: $3000ish
• Use case: I am a hobbyist working on projects out of my home (so single phase 220)
• Experience: I used to be a mechanic working out of fabrication style off-road shops, have approximately 6 years of professional experience with that
• Steel thickness requirements: 3/8" single pass max which I know all welders listed are capable of. The thickest weld I can think of could be welding 1/4" to 3/8" mild steel to a cast steel steering knuckle (could be multi-pass)
• Aluminum thickness requirement: Unknown.. The project I am working on is using aluminum for floor pans, so not all that thick.

I am starting a new project here and would like to learn how to TIG, as all of my experience is with MIG and oxy/acy. My other goal would be to have a good machine that I can grow into with my skills. The current build I am working on does have a mix of aluminum and steel, so I am looking for something that can do AC and DC TIG. I do not understand the different wave types and what they will do for me at this point, but I do know that some machines on my list are more capable than others. I believe all three of these can do HF starts, which I have heard are usually preferred by a pro. They all can take a "larger" mig spool. When and if a welder goes out, I will not be loosing money like a professional would, but however long it takes to get sorted out will bite time of our getting my project completed.

Welders in Question
Machines I am considering:

• Miller Multimatic 220
• ESAB Rebel 205ic
• Everlast Lightning 225

My Thoughts on Each Welder

TLDR: I babbled on about my thoughts on each welder, none of what I was saying dealt with any personal experience with any of the welders in question.


Everlast
I was initially set on getting the Everlast purely because of the lower cost. I became weary that I was seeing very few negative reviews on it (at least as far as a 30 minutes of google searching). I called to ask them questions about what parts they used and if they would be hard to find, and the guy seemed somewhat annoyed with me that I was asking those kinds of questions. I can deal with that to save $1,000 though right? I'm not sure... I am thinking about calling Everlast tech support today with a "fake" problem just to see how long it takes me to get someone that can help me. My buddies that think I should get this argue that my old Hobart welder (which could be considered an off brand if you are a red or blue only guy) never needed any major parts or fixes. When I did call Everlast they had a promotion where they were giving a Nova pedal with it and the guy was really pushing that. Makes me wonder, does the stock one suck?

Miller
Feel free to make fun of me on this, but Im just going to give my thoughts. I called Baker's Gas to ask for their thoughts on the ESAB vs the Miller. (Background story: I am now a software engineer and am very particular about computers, adjustability and flexibility for the user) The salesman I talked to gave me a comparison of the two saying that the Miller interface was more like an iphone; not a lot of settings, and it just works and is easy to use. Where as he said the ESAB was like an android, lots of confusing settings and difficult to work with. For me personally, that turned me off on the Miller. I want to be able to make any adjustment necessary and don't want to be babied by the user interface. Would it be nice to have a machine to hold my hand while Im learning? Sure. But I don't want to be locked into something that I cannot tweak here and there when I want to try something out on. All that being said: Every Miller welder I have ever used has impressed the hell out of me with how clean and crisp they MIG. I am sure the welder itself will work great, and probably has the best support out of any of these three.

ESAB
To be honest, I was lured into the ESAB by Ian Johnson on the show Xtreme 4x4 when he first premiered the Rebel. Unfortunately, I am easily influenced by this sort of thing if I don't have experience to back it up. That being said, I can tell you that I have watched videos on all of these welders, and the interface for the ESAB is definitely over my head. I would have to learn a lot about what adjustment does what, which will come in time I think. The ESAB just seems pretty cool to me, not really a decision based on solid data.


In Closing
So, as a person with more experience than myself, what would any of you recommend I do here? Any money I don't spend on the welder can go into other parts of the project and could (if the welder isnt costing me money to fix) save me time toward the overall completion of it.

Thank you!

EDIT: Here is a pic of what I have built so far (JD2 air over hydro bender, with Hobart 220 MIG)

[Meltedmetal]

They are likely going to want to know how heavy of material you hope to weld in each category.

[YeeP]

@Meltedmetal - understood, updating initial post.

[Louie1961]

Do you like to gamble? If yes, get the Everlast. It might break, it might not. Some people have good luck with Everlast, others have not. If it does break, you might get good service or you might not. IF you need warranty service from Everlast after the initial 30 day grace period, you will be responsible to ship the unit to and from their designated repair facility even if the problem is covered under warranty. You don't often read stories reporting great customer service from Everlast. If you buy Miller or Esab, they may or may not break as well, but at least they have local repair facilities virtually everywhere, and while not perfect, the reports regarding customer service from ESAB and Miller are universally much better than the reports about Everlast customer service. None of the three companies are perfect, but I think 2 of the 3 are much easier to deal with, and you get what you pay for. Just my 2 cents.

[Broccoli1]

Seems like the Hobart machine is working just fine.

Why get a new Multiprocess machine and not a dedicated Tig machine?

[YeeP]

Do you like to gamble? If yes, get the Everlast. It might break, it might not. Some people have good luck with Everlast, others have not. If it does break, you might get good service or you might not. IF you need warranty service from Everlast after the initial 30 day grace period, you will be responsible to ship the unit to and from their designated repair facility even if the problem is covered under warranty. You don't often read stories reporting great customer service from Everlast. If you buy Miller or Esab, they may or may not break as well, but at least they have local repair facilities virtually everywhere, and while not perfect, the reports regarding customer service from ESAB and Miller are universally much better than the reports about Everlast customer service. None of the three companies are perfect, but I think 2 of the 3 are much easier to deal with, and you get what you pay for. Just my 2 cents.

Honestly, this is why I am swaying away from the Everlast. Thank you for the input.

[YeeP]

Seems like the Hobart machine is working just fine.

Why get a new Multiprocess machine and not a dedicated Tig machine?

Well to be honest, I want to learn how to TIG and would like to give the MIG to a friend that is getting into welding and cannot afford a welder right now.

[William McCormick]

Hello! I have read a couple of threads like this on here, so let me get to the details that seemed to be asked for every one of these.

Details

• Budget: $3000ish
• Use case: I am a hobbyist working on projects out of my home (so single phase 220)
• Experience: I used to be a mechanic working out of fabrication style off-road shops, have approximately 6 years of professional experience with that
• Steel thickness requirements: 3/8" single pass max which I know all welders listed are capable of. The thickest weld I can think of could be welding 1/4" to 3/8" mild steel to a cast steel steering knuckle (could be multi-pass)
• Aluminum thickness requirement: Unknown.. The project I am working on is using aluminum for floor pans, so not all that thick.

I am starting a new project here and would like to learn how to TIG, as all of my experience is with MIG and oxy/acy. My other goal would be to have a good machine that I can grow into with my skills. The current build I am working on does have a mix of aluminum and steel, so I am looking for something that can do AC and DC TIG. I do not understand the different wave types and what they will do for me at this point, but I do know that some machines on my list are more capable than others. I believe all three of these can do HF starts, which I have heard are usually preferred by a pro. They all can take a "larger" mig spool. When and if a welder goes out, I will not be loosing money like a professional would, but however long it takes to get sorted out will bite time of our getting my project completed.

Welders in Question
Machines I am considering:

• Miller Multimatic 220
• ESAB Rebel 205ic
• Everlast Lightning 225

My Thoughts on Each Welder

TLDR: I babbled on about my thoughts on each welder, none of what I was saying dealt with any personal experience with any of the welders in question.


Everlast
I was initially set on getting the Everlast purely because of the lower cost. I became weary that I was seeing very few negative reviews on it (at least as far as a 30 minutes of google searching). I called to ask them questions about what parts they used and if they would be hard to find, and the guy seemed somewhat annoyed with me that I was asking those kinds of questions. I can deal with that to save $1,000 though right? I'm not sure... I am thinking about calling Everlast tech support today with a "fake" problem just to see how long it takes me to get someone that can help me. My buddies that think I should get this argue that my old Hobart welder (which could be considered an off brand if you are a red or blue only guy) never needed any major parts or fixes. When I did call Everlast they had a promotion where they were giving a Nova pedal with it and the guy was really pushing that. Makes me wonder, does the stock one suck?

Miller
Feel free to make fun of me on this, but Im just going to give my thoughts. I called Baker's Gas to ask for their thoughts on the ESAB vs the Miller. (Background story: I am now a software engineer and am very particular about computers, adjustability and flexibility for the user) The salesman I talked to gave me a comparison of the two saying that the Miller interface was more like an iphone; not a lot of settings, and it just works and is easy to use. Where as he said the ESAB was like an android, lots of confusing settings and difficult to work with. For me personally, that turned me off on the Miller. I want to be able to make any adjustment necessary and don't want to be babied by the user interface. Would it be nice to have a machine to hold my hand while Im learning? Sure. But I don't want to be locked into something that I cannot tweak here and there when I want to try something out on. All that being said: Every Miller welder I have ever used has impressed the hell out of me with how clean and crisp they MIG. I am sure the welder itself will work great, and probably has the best support out of any of these three.

ESAB
To be honest, I was lured into the ESAB by Ian Johnson on the show Xtreme 4x4 when he first premiered the Rebel. Unfortunately, I am easily influenced by this sort of thing if I don't have experience to back it up. That being said, I can tell you that I have watched videos on all of these welders, and the interface for the ESAB is definitely over my head. I would have to learn a lot about what adjustment does what, which will come in time I think. The ESAB just seems pretty cool to me, not really a decision based on solid data.


In Closing
So, as a person with more experience than myself, what would any of you recommend I do here? Any money I don't spend on the welder can go into other parts of the project and could (if the welder isnt costing me money to fix) save me time toward the overall completion of it.

Thank you!

EDIT: Here is a pic of what I have built so far (JD2 air over hydro bender, with Hobart 220 MIG)

I do not recommend people getting a smaller machine than they anticipate using or even getting a machine that will just do what they want, you will be disappointed.

The Rebel and the Miller both seem pretty nice, the Miller apparently offering more power than the ESAB, I only saw the MIller weld on 1/4" steel, not the ESAB, it seemed to be totally maxed out doing so. But they are both almost maxed out at 1/8"material if you are going to be doing continuous welding on a project like fillet-welding on aluminum extrusion to aluminum extrusion for railings. When I am doing that I use 150 to 180 amps and fly along. But if you are just a hobbyist they all look like they would work for small projects, prototyping, and such. It is a shame because once you weld a lot you can make a little machine seem cool, even when it sucks the hairy ball sack. But you would not buy one despite the fact you can get it to output a decent weld, using all the tricks you have acquired over decades of welding.

The only happy people I know that have bought welders are those that went big, either a used big transformer machine (Syncrowave 250), or a used-old-big machine, and had proper power put in for the machines. Also, the guys that went to something inverter that outputs 280 plus amps and water cooling. Everyone else is just calling what they bought a hobby machine, junky, small, a little welder, a decent welder when they speak of it. There were one or two guys that are afraid of the ARC, that acknowledge the machine is amazing and that they just cannot focus on the weld with that ARC sound right in their face, but all with big machines are very happy if only with the machine. Because when a welder comes over instead of him trying to create a scenario that makes something possible he just says wow what a nice machine. Unfortunately, welding machines are not like cars, they do not all have to be able to drive on the road to be called cars. As an example, if a Toyota could not make it up a standard incline on an American road it would probably not be allowed to be on the road. With welders, there is no such requirement. I have hooked up so many welders and showed people how to weld but as I said the only happy ones just bought very big machines that run on 220 only.

That Rebel would be nice for small steel, and stainless railing repairs for sure on 120 volts. I thought about getting one. But to be honest I can pick up a small inverter that I do not care if it falls off a boat in a yard. or into the water on a dock, and do that kind of work, along with a tiny bottle of Argon. Sometimes I rent one for the day for $150 with tax and insurance. What could be better? Now I am not storing it all year long, I don't need to worry about my bottle being out-of-test. And no one can borrow it and destroy it and let me think I still have one. Most aluminum jobs in the marina require welding to quarter inch and three eights plate.

Yesterday I was welding mud flaps onto a flatbed trailer for a friend with the Big Red and White Snapon Mig machine a 250 I think. He only had Argon, which makes a nicer weld in my opinion than CO2, but the machine could just barely do 1/4" with 0.35 wire which is about the restraints of physics. But now if you get your Rebel, you need a tank of Argon, and a tank of Arcon CO2 mix as well, the Miller lets you hook up both at one time. But now you have a big base setup anyway, why not just get the big welding machine and do it right, get water cooling, much better for your health. Buy the big bottles that will last many times longer and cost much less. I am basically saying just by a professional shop setup or don't bother.

But if I had to pick, I would pick the ESAB. ESAB tends to underrate their stuff. But Miller is the solid bet. I would not even consider the other brand.

I saw your edit and what you do as far as welding. You could do that with a tiny inverter TIG if you like scratch start I do not. If that is all you do you could get away with the ESAB or Miller for sure.

Sincerely,

William McCormick

[Broccoli1]

Well to be honest, I want to learn how to TIG and would like to give the MIG to a friend that is getting into welding and cannot afford a welder right now.

Good on ya.

that's what I did with my Lincoln SP-135 Plus.

[Xsbank]

Miller, no question. When I went to BCIT for a welding course, they used these (20?) and the 350 too, slowly replacing the 300s. Sorry about the Apple disease. Excellent machine, well understood, widely used in industry.

For myself, I have a Lincoln SW200 which works great. Some have reported failures, but mine has been good (Touch wood).

[filetobeef]

esab makes good products and customer support has always been great,at least for me!

[shovelon]

Miller is a simpler to use. Many more people use Miller than the other 2 if you are looking for guidance. And IMO Miller gives better support. So if you want to go multiprocess that is the direction I go.

However if you want to learn tig, buy a tig and keep the mig. Never give up a good paid for machine whether it is mig or tig on a gamble. I have had several occasions to upgrade and regretted it hardcore.

[William McCormick]

Miller is a simpler to use. Many more people use Miller than the other 2 if you are looking for guidance. And IMO Miller gives better support. So if you want to go multiprocess that is the direction I go.

However if you want to learn tig, buy a tig and keep the mig. Never give up a good paid for machine whether it is mig or tig on a gamble. I have had several occasions to upgrade and regretted it hardcore.

All of those machines he mentioned do it all, TIG, MiG, and ARC.

Sincerely,

William McCormick

[Munkul]

I don't see how the Esab is more difficult to use than the Miller. The AC TIG side of things is fairly simple as far as TIG sets go. You have frequency and balance adjust, and that's about it. And to be fair, it's all you really need as well.
I like the look of the interface better on the Esab, but agree that you'll probably get a better quality product from Miller. Heard that the Esab units are LOVELY when the work... but if they go wrong....!

Without having used either machine, personally, I'd go with either of the Miller or Esab, and ideally buy from a bricks-and-mortar local welding supplier.

Parweld have their own AC/DC multiprocess, if Parweld are an option in US? It's getting a good reputation here in the UK.

Two seperate machines will always be better than one all-in-one, though.

[William McCormick]

Miller, no question. When I went to BCIT for a welding course, they used these (20?) and the 350 too, slowly replacing the 300s. Sorry about the Apple disease. Excellent machine, well understood, widely used in industry.

For myself, I have a Lincoln SW200 which works great. Some have reported failures, but mine has been good (Touch wood).

It is probably not Apple any more than the PC world. But both companies go out of their way to comply with an agreed-upon standard only if the other company did something nice to allow better communication but did not meet the current standard. At that point, they work to cause pain and suffering, through the failure of communication. If it was a man's world they would walk around with a black eye and a bloody nose for a few days and then everything would start working great.

Sincerely,

William McCormick

[MinnesotaDave]

Honestly, this is why I am swaying away from the Everlast. Thank you for the input.

I'm against Everlast. I have a long memory for how they screwed over people in the beginning of the company.
Some say "but the machines are good now" - that holds no sway over me.

I've used ESAB, Lincoln and Miller, I like all 3 and can only say I don't buy until a machine has been on the market long enough to work out the problems.
Unfortunately now that's right about when the new one comes out...

I'm a fan of big old machines - they work. But I like the little ones too, very handy.

It's really a preference thing. Settings don't mean much if the person can't weld. My 1963 Airco 300 was my first tig - no settings really, just weld it.
When on aluminum, running at 250 amps means nothing when the welder has over 400 amps on tap.
My syncrowave 350 (90's machine) was $1500 shipped with a water cooler. That's what I normally use now and it actually does weld aluminum better than the old Airco.
Not that the Airco was bad at all, I've even welded pop cans with it just for the heck of it.

A 200 amp inverter is the lowest I would go for a machine that will see aluminum.

At school, I have an ESAB mig/stick. It has a super nice mig arc, about as good as my Millermatic 210 (90's transformer machine).
The stick arc is also very good. I hooked a tig torch to it in stick mode, does a nice job there too with scratch start (has no tig setting).

For new stuff it's all preference, price and local service availability.
For old stuff, just buy what you know always works. Hard to go wrong with a used standard Syncrowave 250.

I could ramble on about welders for ages.... LOL

[Munkul]

It's really a preference thing. Settings don't mean much if the person can't weld.

That's the truth!
Your alloy welding on that Airco that I've seen on this site is better than my welding on my modern Lorch.

I'd say it's 80% skill, 20% machine.

[BaTu]

I say Everlast, best Bang-for-the-Buck you'll find (you're asking this question in a forum full of professionals, they're most often biased towards Miller, and for a reason that might not be yours).

I have Everlast machines for the past 10yrs, they've worked well for Me, but you did find the flaw at Everlast, their Attitude (doesn't translate to poor service, just annoying to deal with). Their owner can be kinda snarky to customers so he doesn't mind if his employees are too. They all take the position that they're doing you a favor with helping you more than it's You who are doing them the favor by being a customer in a world full of choices

If Bang-for-the-Buck is important to you, for a great machine with a lot of features, I don't think it's a gamble as long as you can overlook the A-hole's tone you might find, if you have the unlikely need to speak with one of them about a problem...

[Broccoli1]

I can relate to " all the functions seem a bit overwhelming" on the Tig side.

If one has never Tig welded, there are a lot of functions that might as well be greek. When I first got my TA185 I was pretty much WTF ? Upslope Downslope 2T 4T wave form, Pulse

Mig allowed me just to squeeze the ol' metal glue gun and go

[INXS2]

I've had a couple Lincolns and a old MM200 which were real good. I'd go to Miller or Lincoln if I were welding professionally. I'm retired and a hobbyist so I sold the red & blue welder to try out the Eastwood Migs and Tigs. They were ok but I wanted something that was an all in one. About 5 years ago I bought A Everlast PowerMTS 251Si which works great. I wanted an AC/DC all in one but Everlast said they weren't ever going to build one. Low and behold they have a couple out about a year ago so I bought a PowerMTS 221Sti (AC/DC Tig) for my house in the great white north (didn't want to haul it south for the winter). I feel they work very well with the only downside as being no real settings for starting out welding, I'm not a professional welder (no chart). I was told just use the synergic mode, which is ok. Trial and error on scrap helps a lot. I also bought their 52i Plasma cutter, which works great, and is easily transported over 2200 miles twice a year. No real problems over all the time I've had them but I don't weld everyday.

[N2 Welding]

I like the Rebel but this is a biased opinion based in on my experience using the machine I purchased which was the first Rebel model EMP 215ic.

Granted it seems like a very solid machine to me. Cons in my opinion. The 180amp Mig gun does not cut the mustard if you plan to do any 1/4” to 3/8” mild steel Mig welding for any lengthy duration of time. I upgraded it with 15’ 250 amp and 15’ 350 amp tweco fusion Mig guns. The spool gun for the ac/dc will run you about $400 if you ever intend to do a lot of fast paced aluminum spool gun welding.

It looks like the 205 ac/dc is capable of 235 amps Mig, 205 amps tig and 180 amps stick. Not too shabby. I did not look up the others specs.

I’d agree with the above comment about how ESAB generally underrates their machines based on some comments I got from one of the guys running a welding booth in Vegas for 2016 Fabtech. He said that originally the machines were set up to run at higher amps and volts and the machines could take a lot of abuse. After engineering and after the testing was complete he said they dialed the machines back a little in the software to make for a very durable long lasting machine. Hope and pray none of the little components in the many circuits don’t fail as they can and do in any inverter based machine.

When I purchased my Rebel the option was either a miller 211, Lincoln 210 or the Rebel. I feel i maid the right choice so far considering at the time I paid $1450. I would have loved it if the machines were capable of AC/DC but it would be a couple years later and about $1000+ more for one of those machines so I have no complaints there. The AC/DC looks like it comes with a nice SSC Foot pedal.

I have heard good things about the miller. With regards to settings I agree the more option the better. I think the Rebel is built a little tougher than any machine on the market with regards to transporting and bouncing around in the back of a truck etc.

Good luck with what ever machines you choose. Oh yeah I agree with keeping the Hobart as well. It would suck to have a new fancy machine break and not have a paid for tried and true back up machine.

[N2 Welding]

I forgot to mention the Rebel AC/DC can fit a 10 to 11 lbs spool of wire. Not quite a large spool but enough wire to get through most work that machine can do in a day.

[Stick-man]

I know you didn't mention Lincoln, however I have to mention this. I just purchased a used, in great shape, Lincoln V350Pro for $1500.00. Man, in my opinion, this is the ultimate in multi process welders. Yes, you will need a separate feeder, but you can still find that and be under $3k The seller stated they are a factory authorized service center, and they have more units available.

[MinnesotaDave]

I know you didn't mention Lincoln, however I have to mention this. I just purchased a used, in great shape, Lincoln V350Pro for $1500.00. Man, in my opinion, this is the ultimate in multi process welders. Yes, you will need a separate feeder, but you can still find that and be under $3k The seller stated they are a factory authorized service center, and they have more units available.

That's a steal

[N2 Welding]

Here is a decent comparison video between the miller 220 and the ESAB AC/DC. One thing he does not mention is pulse options. The ESAB is capable of pulse in dc mode only. Don’t know if miller has pulse or not. Pulse is a handy feature to have.