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Redface- Red-Blue face
What is the differance in these two machines?
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Re: Redface- Red-Blue face
Probably only the colour of the faceplate after many years of fading in sunlight
Gordie -- "I believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
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Re: Redface- Red-Blue face
Oh also a 200f Ive noticed it has a black face. Ive heard everyone talk about the redface, and how good it is. I just havent seen that many red-blue face machines, and Ive seen several of the 200f with a black face but you dont hear folks talking them up like the red face. Guys Im in the market for a machine, Im not in a hurry to buy one so Im using this time to do my research. I dont want to buy one then find out one of the others is better. Ive looked back through about 6-7 pages and seen people asking about problems with their machine, or a rebuild question, but I havent seen anyone talking about the pros and cons of each. I may have not went back far enough to find the info Im looking for, so any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for yalls time.
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Re: Redface- Red-Blue face
Basically if it is a round barrel it has copper in the generator. This will make it an older redface machine. I believe these were made from 62 or 63 up until the early 70's.
Black face machines were made from mid 72 or 73 on up until the 200G was introduced I believe. These machines have an octagon generator that has aluminum coated windings.
The shunt coils are notorious for going out in theses machines. When this happens you only get a little spark when you weld. There is no telling how many have been replaced. The shunt coils cost about $450, plus installation, the last time I checked. You have to pull the barrel to press them out.
There are also older machines such as the short hood machines that will give you great reliability if they have a few things done to upgrade them. There are literally thousands of Lincoln's out that that are 30,40 years old and more used every day.
Last edited by robphillips00; 02-03-2012 at 08:11 AM.
Miller Pro 300
68 SA 200
64 SAF 300
305 G Lincoln gasser
Miller 210
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Re: Redface- Red-Blue face
Originally Posted by
robphillips00
Basically if it is a round barrel it has copper in the generator. This will make it an older redface machine. I believe these were made from 62 or 63 up until the early 70's.
Black face machines were made from mid 72 or 73 on up until the 200G was introduced I believe. These machines have an octagon generator that has aluminum coated windings.
The shunt coils are notorious for going out in theses machines. When this happens you only get a little spark when you weld. There is no telling how many have been replaced. The shunt coils cost about $450, plus installation, the last time I checked. You have to pull the barrel to press them out.
There are also older machines such as the short hood machines that will give you great reliability if they have a few things done to upgrade them. There are literally thousands of Lincoln's out that that are 30,40 years old and more used every day.
No. What is referred to as the Blackface has a round barrel. The faceplate looks like the redface except for the colour. There is a lot of confusion about the Blackface but no confusion about the Redface.
What you have described with the octagon generator is what is become known as a "Green Light" after the green running light in the faceplate.
Stick to a Redface and you won't be confused and there is nothing that will trip you up
Gordie -- "I believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
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Re: Redface- Red-Blue face
My redface (code 4150) is an original blue tint redface
1960 Redface SA-200 F 162
1973 Black face SA-200 F 163 with 5" chop
2013 Miller Trailblazer 275
2013 GMC 3500 welding car
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Re: Redface- Red-Blue face
Good Morning all
One of my goals this winter is to post a list showing the changes that occurred by year, code, serial number. I have been compiling this list from available sources and with the help of Nitesky and Kay S. But this winter has been mild enough that I have not been stuck inside long enough to start.
This is a very in general short list. Some years only had a couple of codes that overlapped several years. Others had multiple codes in one year. Some codes are as simple a change as changing from a square head bolt to a hex head bolt. Others have multiple significant changes.
Red Face / Blue tint
F162 , 2 piece (split) control panel
1959 - 1962
Codes 4149,4150,4744,4745,4800,4815,4816
Red Face
F162 , 2 piece (split) control panel
1963 - 1967
Codes 4843 - 5841
Black Face
Change to F163 and 1 piece (solid) control panel.
1967 - 1972
Codes 5957 - 7242
Green lite
1973 - -------
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Re: Redface- Red-Blue face
I have a 1972 blackface. Weld terminals on the front panel, low mount starter, octagon barrel, generator (no altenator). It never had a green light. Been told it was a transition machine from the redfaces to the blackfaces.
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Re: Redface- Red-Blue face
Lincweld
1972 was a major transition year.Still had the "Black Face" name plate
The book lists 11 code numbers for 1972.
changed to the Octagon barrel, Aluminium shunt field coils, changed series field coils and interpole field coils, 12v neg. ground altenator....
etc.
73 the face plate changed to the "Green Light" face plate.
electronic idle control .......
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Re: Redface- Red-Blue face
Originally Posted by
lincweld
I have a 1972 blackface. Weld terminals on the front panel, low mount starter, octagon barrel, generator (no altenator). It never had a green light. Been told it was a transition machine from the redfaces to the blackfaces.
I had one of these also. I have seen several more.
There are so many of the sa 200 out there that have been cobbled together from other machines, that unless you know the history of it, you should be weary of it.
Stick to a reputable shop and you should be fine.
Miller Pro 300
68 SA 200
64 SAF 300
305 G Lincoln gasser
Miller 210
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Re: Redface- Red-Blue face
My '61 code #4150 is a red/blue face. Lincoln claims they have no record of producing them, which is odd. I've heard that the only machines featuring the red/blue tint plates were code # 4150 and had the f-162 continental.
Two stories I've heard about them. One is that they were a transition from the older black face to the red face machines. The second is that they were special ordered by a large pipeline company that wanted their machines to stand out.
Either way they are essentially an early red face.
Miller Dialarc 250
'61 Lincoln SA 200 Red/Blue Face
Hobart Handler 175
Smith O/A
If you cant dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with B.S.!
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Re: Redface- Red-Blue face
Mine is Serial # A716412 Code # 7214 and it's listed as a 1973. Black Face, NO green light, R-57 idler with an alternator.
Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize we cannot eat money.
-Cree Indian Proverb
SA 200 Lincoln
Victor Torches
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Re: Redface- Red-Blue face
Gizzardgutz
Thanks for getting me to check the notes.
The "Blackface" did carry into 73.
with codes 7178, 7214 and 7242.
The "Greenlight"
started with code 7243
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Re: Redface- Red-Blue face
Straighten me out on this. A blackface machine with a round barrel generator is essentially the same as a redface. Yes/no?
47 shorty
48 shorty
55 shorty
70 redface
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Re: Redface- Red-Blue face
Don’t pay any attention to me
I’m just a hobbyist!
Carl
Dynasty 300
V350-Pro w/pulse
SG Spool gun
1937 IdealArc-300
PowerArc 200ST
3 SA-200s
Vantage 400
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Re: Redface- Red-Blue face
Originally Posted by
andex
Lincweld
1972 was a major transition year.Still had the "Black Face" name plate
The book lists 11 code numbers for 1972.
changed to the Octagon barrel, Aluminium shunt field coils, changed series field coils and interpole field coils, 12v neg. ground altenator....
etc.
73 the face plate changed to the "Green Light" face plate.
electronic idle control .......
Just went out and checked. my machine has code: 7168 and serial # A-691786. I don't have any information on codes. My machine had a generator not altenator. Do you think this code or series of machines came just after the blackface round barrel machines ? Thanks for any help!
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Re: Redface- Red-Blue face
Originally Posted by
lincweld
Do you think this code or series of machines came just after the blackface round barrel machines ? Thanks for any help!
Yes. Your machine is a transition between the Black Face round barrel, and the Green Light machines.
Don’t pay any attention to me
I’m just a hobbyist!
Carl
Dynasty 300
V350-Pro w/pulse
SG Spool gun
1937 IdealArc-300
PowerArc 200ST
3 SA-200s
Vantage 400
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Re: Redface- Red-Blue face
Originally Posted by
daCat
Straighten me out on this. A blackface machine with a round barrel generator is essentially the same as a redface. Yes/no?
Yes
This seems to be the question that I and many others have asked over and over. Why the change from the Red face plate to the Black face plate in 1967 code 6073 ?
There were 2 obvious changes. 1; the control panel changed from 2 piece to 1.not to radical, easier to manufacture and stock 1 item. 2; Significant change, It was the end of the line for the F162 and the F163 was introduced. Everything else stayed the same.
As was mentioned earlier, It is fairly easy to swap old out for new and to add newer features to older machines. So whats on it now may not be the way it was.
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Re: Redface- Red-Blue face
I know this is an old thread, but I would like to add that I own both machines and the Red/Blue face machine runs at a lower rpm. 1450rpm for the red/blue face and 1550 for my 1969 Red face IIRC.
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Re: Redface- Red-Blue face
You have to read the panel closely, it states 1550 with no load and 1450 under load. I was told the red-blue machines have a balanced armature.
1960 Redface SA-200 F 162
1973 Black face SA-200 F 163 with 5" chop
2013 Miller Trailblazer 275
2013 GMC 3500 welding car
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Re: Redface- Red-Blue face
I recently picked up a Black Face, round barrell , low starter with R57 idler, believe it to be 1970 and from memory the code is 6633 on the face plate and number stamped on the barrell matches. Lead terminals are on the front.
"Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum"
Lincoln Idealarc 250 AC/DC
Millermatic 251 Syncrowave 300 30A spoolgun
Lincoln MP210
Hypertherm 45
(2) LN 25
(2) Lincoln Weldanpower 225 CV
(4) SA200 1 short hood SA250 SAM 400
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Re: Redface- Red-Blue face
Originally Posted by
CodyJo
What is the differance in these two machines?
The Red-Blue face was a sa200 pipeliner that was built for the military
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Redface- Red-Blue face
Nope that's a myth red and blue face machines are just as common as a redface only the red and blue was built early 60's and the military used Hobart machines. A red/blue is the same except for exciter armature and 1450rpm. As the 1970 model is 1550 high idle.
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Last edited by 78fordf150ranger; 12-14-2015 at 03:46 PM.
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Re: Redface- Red-Blue face
On a different note: are you ever going to get your shorty diesel conversion done? We are all waiting. And don't forget the pictures. Thanks.
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Redface- Red-Blue face
Ya one of these days been really busy with work and life , have the next couple of months off so hopefully.
I have two shorthoods.
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Last edited by 78fordf150ranger; 12-14-2015 at 11:38 PM.