I honestly can't understand what half of your comments are supposed to mean. I generally just skip past your posts for that very reason, but when you start a technical thread and fill it with gobblygook it's a bit different.
"It some that needs to out open."
Can you try that in English this time?
I'm sure you've got plenty of welding experience, but if you can't put together sentences and paragraphs that other people can understand I'm pretty sure nobody doing any sort of critical welding is going to follow your advice.
People doing critical welding ALREADY KNOW they have to follow a process so you posting about this is a complete waste of space. It's not like the concept of hydrogen embrittlement is an unknown phenomenon. Hobby welders generally never have to worry about it, and certified welders should already know about it.
Dave has mentioned in the past that he suffers from a condition of sorts and sometimes his posts may be difficult to follow.
I honestly can't understand what half of your comments are supposed to mean. I generally just skip past your posts for that very reason, but when you start a technical thread and fill it with gobblygook it's a bit different.
"It some that needs to out open."
Can you try that in English this time?
I'm sure you've got plenty of welding experience, but if you can't put together sentences and paragraphs that other people can understand I'm pretty sure nobody doing any sort of critical welding is going to follow your advice.
People doing critical welding ALREADY KNOW they have to follow a process so you posting about this is a complete waste of space. It's not like the concept of hydrogen embrittlement is an unknown phenomenon. Hobby welders generally never have to worry about it, and certified welders should already know about it.
Dave has issues due to cancer treatments, I don't think he processes info like the rest of us, I had given hime a hard time in the past and once I found out about his issues I stopped AND apologized. When I see people giving him a hard time about it I hurt for him, please stop, he can't help it.
Now, going to the 7018, it may light easier if it's stored properly, BUT for the majority of us it don't make a rats behind, we're not doing structural code welding. I never welded much as a professional, just what was required for my job, Locomotive and railcar repairs so it did have to meet FRA requirements. If you've ever looked at a railcar that has been repaired in the field it looks like their car knockers were staight from Walmart when it came to their welds. I've seen a situation where 7018 didn't hold up, BUT I don't believe it had anything to do with the rod or the weldor (all pressure vessel Boilermakers). I was tasked with basic prep on it a duct about 70 feet in the air, only accessible in a man basket flown into a blind spot, I had a radio & the operator had one alsoby a crane & a hundred feet of boom. It was on a mild steel duct on of the catalyst towers in a sulphuric acid plant, an expansion joint had started cracking at a joint that connecred to the duct, it kept cracking behind the weld on th duct side IIRC, the metal was crystalized and that was made obvious when welding it. the crack would get contaminated from the high strength SO2 & SO3 gasses it was subjected to in normal operation of the plant, they finally fixed the problem, but I had left that part of the operation to move on to the Locomotive shop in early 79, so I don't know what it took, the things I described would have been in 77 or 78. The bottom line for me, 7018 is fine for the average guy doing field repairs, machinery repairs, farm repairs or just doing his hobby. Popeye's post kind of summed it up, several different tensile strength xx18 rods & no failures.
Last edited by CAVEMANN; 11-10-2021 at 05:49 PM.
UNITWELD 175 AMP 3 IN1 DC
MIDSTATES 300 AMP AC MACHINE LET'S GO BRANDON!"INFLATION-THAT'S THE PRICE WE PAY FOR THOSE GOVERNMENT BENEFITS EVERYBODY THOUGHT WERE FREE."RONALD REAGAN
JEFF
Dave has issues due to cancer treatments, I don't think he processes info like the rest of us, I had given hime a hard time in the past and once I found out about his issues I stopped AND apologized. When I see people giving him a hard time about it I hurt for him, please stop, he can't help it.
Now, going to the 7018, it may light easier if it's stored properly, BUT for the majority of us it don't make a rats behind, we're not doing structural code welding. I never welded much as a professional, just what was required for my job, Locomotive and railcar repairs so it did have to meet FRA requirements. If you've ever looked at a railcar that has been repaired in the field it looks like their car knockers were staight from Walmart when it came to their welds. I've seen a situation where 7018 didn't hold up, BUT I don't believe it had anything to do with the rod or the weldor (all pressure vessel Boilermakers). I was tasked with basic prep on it a duct about 70 feet in the air, only accessible in a man basket flown into a blind spot, I had a radio & the operator had one alsoby a crane & a hundred feet of boom. It was on a mild steel duct on of the catalyst towers in a sulphuric acid plant, an expansion joint had started cracking at a joint that connecred to the duct, it kept cracking behind the weld on th duct side IIRC, the metal was crystalized and that was made obvious when welding it. the crack would get contaminated from the high strength SO2 & SO3 gasses it was subjected to in normal operation of the plant, they finally fixed the problem, but I had left that part of the operation to move on to the Locomotive shop in early 79, so I don't know what it took, the things I described would have been in 77 or 78. The bottom line for me, 7018 is fine for the average guy doing field repairs, machinery repairs, farm repairs or just doing his hobby. Popeye's post kind of summed it up, several different tensile strength xx18 rods & no failures.
Dave has issues due to cancer treatments, I don't think he processes info like the rest of us, I had given hime a hard time in the past and once I found out about his issues I stopped AND apologized. When I see people giving him a hard time about it I hurt for him, please stop, he can't help it.
Now, going to the 7018, it may light easier if it's stored properly, BUT for the majority of us it don't make a rats behind, we're not doing structural code welding. I never welded much as a professional, just what was required for my job, Locomotive and railcar repairs so it did have to meet FRA requirements. If you've ever looked at a railcar that has been repaired in the field it looks like their car knockers were staight from Walmart when it came to their welds. I've seen a situation where 7018 didn't hold up, BUT I don't believe it had anything to do with the rod or the weldor (all pressure vessel Boilermakers). I was tasked with basic prep on it a duct about 70 feet in the air, only accessible in a man basket flown into a blind spot, I had a radio & the operator had one alsoby a crane & a hundred feet of boom. It was on a mild steel duct on of the catalyst towers in a sulphuric acid plant, an expansion joint had started cracking at a joint that connecred to the duct, it kept cracking behind the weld on th duct side IIRC, the metal was crystalized and that was made obvious when welding it. the crack would get contaminated from the high strength SO2 & SO3 gasses it was subjected to in normal operation of the plant, they finally fixed the problem, but I had left that part of the operation to move on to the Locomotive shop in early 79, so I don't know what it took, the things I described would have been in 77 or 78. The bottom line for me, 7018 is fine for the average guy doing field repairs, machinery repairs, farm repairs or just doing his hobby. Popeye's post kind of summed it up, several different tensile strength xx18 rods & no failures.
So then maybe he should sit on the stands instead of limping out into the football field thinking he can take a tackle and making the fans cringe in sadness as they watch it happen. Just because he can limp his way there, doesn't mean he should. Let the athletes on the field do their thing. Father time always tells them when to sit down. The smart ones do as father time tells them.
So then maybe he should sit on the stands instead of limping out into the football field thinking he can take a tackle and making the fans cringe in sadness as they watch it happen. Just because he can limp his way there, doesn't mean he should. Let the athletes on the field do their thing. Father time always tells them when to sit down. The smart ones do as father time tells them.
For good or bad Dave has interesting input.
It's unfortunate you are unable to glean some of his wisdom such as it is.
It's unfortunate you are unable to glean some of his wisdom such as it is.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The wisdom is there no doubt, it's the platform he's chosen to use that is not ideal for him to relay that wisdom in a constructive and effective manner.
I bigger question is why would buy a high cost rod and not use in correct way.
It would be more cost-effective to use rod that does not need per heating and lower in cost.
Also the low hydrogen rod if has moisture in rod make more brittle than more the low cost rods.
Dave
The cheapest part of any welding is the consumable. (unless you're buttering pure nickel onto carbon steel, that is)
7018 cost about the same as anything else over here. Our alternative is a high quality European 6013.
What's cheaper, running a 6013 badly and grinding it out for a re-do, or running a single 7018? Time is money.
The advantages for me, using them the way we do:
- easy to run all position compared to 6013
- easy to get a good sound weld
- weld properties are great - very tough
Again, remember I'm generally talking low carbon steels where low hydrogen isn't critical.
Murphy's Golden Rule: Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.
You guys need to check out the AWS foum Same arguments, but on a higher plane(which is open for debate), with oodles of code section numbers tossed into the mix Same same though...........buncha doods that all know more than the other dood All forums are the same.
I actually had Dave Black from AWS come down to the job to check some of my work. They wanted to see how we got some of the pictures so clear. Dave was 10 yrs older than i was, assume he is well retired by now.
I can see in future all most weld will be innershield/flux core.
Stick will be in history books.
Today who torch O/A welds light gauge aluminum?
In WW2 there was welders that did welding of aluminum before TIG or MIG.
I new a welder how did that work, he pick scrape aluminum for rod and welded aluminum (I like mig welding aluminum).
Dave
Originally Posted by Sberry
I remember asking, i was new to innershield if there was classes for it. He said, not really and you dont need it,,, ha
You are wrong. There will always be a place for relatively low amperage self shielded welding consumables for weld repairs. Fluxcore wires are difficult to run and need amps. Small flux core wires don't have the mechanical properties that good SMAW electrodes have.
Murphy's Golden Rule: Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.
I made my comments on this a few times here and just the other day on this post. I stand by that knowing what Ive done in the past and still do today, and very successfully. Ive also worked in power plants where you best have them rods in a rod caddy and it better be plugged in, for what we were doin there I can see the point. What I do these days it dont matter it works fine.
Dave ...the lad who started this discussion has his views on it, if that what he wants to do and it makes him happy then ok he got nice warm rods to work with...good hand warmers in the winter too
Now that Im done sayin all that I would like to point out that some folks need to learn some patience. Not gonna mention any names but there is some folks here that need to take some time and decipher the mans writings instead of deliberately trying to makin an *** out of him. He tries and Im sure it aint easy on him...so maybe grow the F^%k up and/or leave the man alone
Last edited by old miner called Pop; 11-11-2021 at 07:34 PM.
The flux core properties for any size is same per the AWS.
Self shielded applies to both stick and flux core.
Odds are Stick will around to some degree for 20 to 40 years.
Dave
Originally Posted by Munkul
You are wrong. There will always be a place for relatively low amperage self shielded welding consumables for weld repairs. Fluxcore wires are difficult to run and need amps. Small flux core wires don't have the mechanical properties that good SMAW electrodes have.
My neighbor brought over a cheap import flux only someone gave him the other day, I found a tip and put a roll in it and to my surprise it welded quite well especially on hi, wire turned up. Really did a decent job.
Miller Syncrowave 250DX
Millermatic 350P with XR AlumaPro
Miller Regency 200 with 22A feeder and Spoolmatic 3
Hobart Champion Elite
Everlast PowerTig 210EXT
The flux core properties for any size is same per the AWS.
Self shielded applies to both stick and flux core.
Odds are Stick will around to some degree for 20 to 40 years.
Dave
Find me a FCAW wire that runs at 100 amps and gives mechanical properties of a 7018.
It doesn't exist!
E71T-1 does NOT have the same properties as 7018!
T-8 and T-11 wires do not run at 100 amps!
I have organised and supervised critical coded repair works to some old mixer paddles on chemical vessels. In each case we used a small 150 amp MMA inverter running off a long extension, and 1/8" 7018 for mechanical properties. Brand new vac packs of H-5 low hydrogen rods. No restarts. Heated quiver. All the proper way to do it.
Tell me Dave, how would I have achieved the same repairs with FCAW? T-8 wires start running at 200 amps, and are not user friendly. On these repairs with the older carbon steel, it made more sense to run lots of small weld beads, repair the crack slowly, and achieve a degree of PWHT to each previous run. You couldn't run a T-8 or T-11 wire like that. I would have had to double the power supply, and deal with bulky wire running equipment, also.
Or, I could have used a T-1 wire, but it would have been brittle and not give the toughness properties that we wanted.
In this case, not only was 7018 MMA the best choice - it was pretty much the only choice.
There you go, now I've qualified my statement - there will, in my opinion, ALWAYS be a place for MMA electrodes.
Last edited by Munkul; 11-12-2021 at 05:53 AM.
Murphy's Golden Rule: Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.
ReplyOriginally Posted by G-ManBart
Same arguments, but on a higher plane(which is open for debate
Same same though...........buncha doods that all know more than the other dood
