Millermatic 200 restoration, Help and advice needed Please!

[KeyAir]

Hello Welders and Millerphiles!

I have always wanted a Miller, but budget restricted me.

But last week I snagged a Millermatic 200...
Its in rough shape, but I am hoping I can bring it back functionally and cosmetically!
I need it to do some heavier stuff that my 110v Snapon Musclemig 140 can't!
Its a 1988 by the serial number #JJ493201 stock number is 048291

So, first issue is a missing the Wire feed motor.... the gears are there, motor is gone.
According to the manual, its Part #31 on page 65.
#113 688 : 1/2hp 115v DC 3560 rpm.

I found a mention of it being NLA and my searches have turned up nothing.
Anyone know better or know if there is a different part that can replace it?

Thanks in advance!

[shovelon]

Have you tried Miller4less?

https://www.miller4less.com/

[KeyAir]

Yes, Thanks!
I found some of teh stuff I might need there for good prices, but not the Wire feed motor..

[ccawgc]

113 688 is obsolete from Miller.
The motor is a 90 to 100vdc motor.
Motors in newer welders are all 24vdc.
so using a newer motor and drive will also need a new motor control pcb.

[KeyAir]

Yes, seems to be.
I’m tracking down a used motor, but if that fails...
Can or has that conversion been done successfully?
Which drive motor was used and which PCV?
Thanks!

[Diode]

I may have a used one I can check if you are interested.

Let me know.

[KeyAir]

Thanks for the input!

Yes, Diode, shoot me a PM if you have one.

Has anyone converted this era Millermatic to the later motor?
Is it just the Feed motor or is it the whole wire feed assembly?
What PCB would I need?
Is it a simple swap?

[KeyAir]

Could this be the equivalent?
Gearbox looks similar shape..
Miller told me 115VDC 1/20hp, 40:1 ratio and it was about $900 in 2006...

https://www.grainger.com/product/DAY...or-90VDC-6Z415

I cant justify $900 obviously...

[Diode]

I looked I do not have a motor. Closest thing I have is a used 90VDC motor from a s-52 Wirefeeder.

[jzr75601]

Could this be the equivalent?
Gearbox looks similar shape..
Miller told me 115VDC 1/20hp, 40:1 ratio and it was about $900 in 2006...

https://www.grainger.com/product/DAY...or-90VDC-6Z415

I cant justify $900 obviously...

It's going to be quite a bear coming up with a replacement motor for your MM200 which you've already gathered by now and will reguire quite a bit of detective work/ work on your part. For starters depending on the vintage of you're machine the earlier machines used a 115VDC shunt wound motor while the later model used a simpler permanent magnet motor (which did away with the extra shunt winding and its associated wiring.) I'm not sure if the later motor was rated 90 or 115VDC If the later motor was rated 90VDC that would simplify matters a little bit as most current Boding motors are rated 90 or 180 VDC
The model type of the earlier shunt wound motor was a Bodine NSH 13D3 .
You would need to find a motor of the same basic series with the same mounting bolt pattern which is 2-5/8", close to the same HP spec's with a finale drive out put of 86 rpm (again finding a permanent magnet motor might make it a little easier.)
if you find the same basic spec. motor you would then need to disassemble the gear head remove the out put shaft and machine, broch and thread the out put end. it sounds involved but it is doable, how do I know? been there done that.
Bodine has a really great web site with a lot of literature and has all the spec's and mounting diagrams. Ebay is just one great place to find surplus Bodine gear head motors.
I usually walk away from a machine which is missing the major discontinued components like main transformers ,stabalizers and wire drive motors just due to whats involved

[jzr75601]

This would be a really good motor, just that the bolt pattern is about approx. 1 inch wider and the motor housing a couple inches longer than the MM200 and the aluminum wire feed assembly is different also.

[jzr75601]

I looked I do not have a motor. Closest thing I have is a used 90VDC motor from a s-52 Wirefeeder.

I meant to quote .
This would be a really good motor, just the motor housing is is a couple inches longer and the bolt pattern about 1 inch wider

[KeyAir]

Great info!
The info I have is my serial number welder had a 2 wire motor...
Miller confirmed this on the phone and said "115VDC, 1/20th hp, 3560rpm, with 40:1 reduction gearbox".... so 90rpm ish

Larry Burros said he had a 2 wire and a 5 wire motor, but when I emailed him for a price, I didn't hear back...
So I called him... and he was super helpful, and obviously knew his stuff, but he said he would let me know....
Which seemed to mean sometime in the future... LOL

So, if my motor originally ran on 115VDC, can I use a 90VDC motor?

If not, then is the a PCB I can put in my welder that outputs 24dc so I can find a more modern wire feed system???

[jzr75601]

Great info!
The info I have is my serial number welder had a 2 wire motor...
Miller confirmed this on the phone and said "115VDC, 1/20th hp, 3560rpm, with 40:1 reduction gearbox".... so 90rpm ish

Larry Burros said he had a 2 wire and a 5 wire motor, but when I emailed him for a price, I didn't hear back...
So I called him... and he was super helpful, and obviously knew his stuff, but he said he would let me know....
Which seemed to mean sometime in the future... LOL

So, if my motor originally ran on 115VDC, can I use a 90VDC motor?

If not, then is the a PCB I can put in my welder that outputs 24dc so I can find a more modern wire feed system???

I just finished over and hour composing an answer to your questions and I lost every thing due to not refreshing the page over and over! Any one know how to retrieve it

[KeyAir]

I just finished over and hour composing an answer to your questions and I lost every thing due to not refreshing the page over and over! Any one know how to retrieve it

Ugh, I'm sorry!
New here, so cant offer any help on that!

[jzr75601]

Ugh, I'm sorry!
New here, so cant offer any help on that!

I was a bit unclear as to when you made mention of all that was left were the "gears" I thought you were referring to the actual wire drive gears but you actually have the gear head it self I would think you have half the battle won there, so no need for modifications or machining any thing, you only need the motor end which includes the drive pinion which engages with and drives the gear box. I would think Bodine mates the gear box across several different motor ends. This does bring you back where you started unfortunately the only thing left would be to determine if a 90VDC can be run off 115 volt PCB which I would think would be a simple enough question for an application's tech/engineer with a call to Bodine. I did look at Bodine's current offerings and it appears all they manufacture these days is 90VDC motors.
Miller does or did make lots of 24 volt feeders but you would still be stuck with gathering a bunch of parts. Have you considered a stand alone wire feeder placed on top of your MM200 ?there are plenty of them out there
Just for kicks and giggles I do have a wire drive assembly out of a Snap-On Muscle Mig 250 which is essentially a Systematics 250 so I believe a motor control board is still available but that would require butchering up your machine and that is just too nice of a machine to butcher up.

[KeyAir]

I really do appreciate the input!

I cannot seem to post pics here, but I started a thread over on GJ, and there are pics of the gearbox and what I have left there...
I was kind of assuming I was missing the input gear that would have been attached to the motor shaft...

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/...d.php?t=477385

Funny you should mention the Snap-on MM.... thats my current Mig Welder, but only the 110v 140a... it a great welder but I want something with more Omph for heavier stuff.
I have the Scratch TIG, and spoolgun for it too...

I looked at buying a Spoolgun for this unit, but the prices looked prohibitive, so wanted to exhaust my search for other solutions first... same goes for a wire feeder..

[albrightree]

Good luck looking for a motor for that. Every time I see a Miller MM200 on craigs list they want over $2000 for them, and they look beat to death. They always seem to disappear in a few days. Haven't seen any for parts either. My recommendation would be to wait for a Snap-on MM250, or a Snap-On YA-212 both are pretty similar to the MM200 Plus the spool gun, and tig torch, and many of the feeder parts are interchangeable. I've owned a YA-212 for several years and it came with a lot of consumeables, and it has run really well on steel, stainless steel, and aluminum. They usually pop up on craigs list and sit for months at $2000 and after a while they drop to about $1000 or less before they disappear. They were usually over priced when sold to an auto shop by snap on dealer, original owners want to get their money back. Generally good machines 12 tap transformer 14-30v 230amp rated machine. Most look beat to death just like the Miller, overspray tinted with paint gun drips, tons of dust inside. Systematics is still selling all the parts for these right now. Just my thoughts on it, hope you find something.

[KeyAir]

Thanks for the input!
Actually, that makes a lot of sense for me to do that...
I absolutely LOVE my MM140, but being a 110v, it lacks that 3/8" ability I need.

Still want to get this one fixed up... guess I could push it in the corner for now... its probably used to that feeling.. LOL.

[albrightree]

Here's the spec's on the SnapOn MM250 : http://www.800abcweld.com/pdf/mm250sl_spec_sheet.pdf

HTH

[KeyAir]

Still gonna restore it...
But.... I picked up a Snap-On MM250SL today... really clean, looks barely used... original gun and ground clamp, and a full spool of .30... $900.

[albrightree]

good deal ! Hopefully you got some consumeables with it. USAweld.com has parts, and HTP replacement guns and parts. If you do bodywork use .025 wire in the MM140 . and .030-.035 in the MM250 for thicker stuff, and for the spool gun. Here are some 1/2" fillets on the YA-212A .





good luck post some pic's

[KeyAir]

Looks great to me!
I was planning to sell the MM140SL and just run with the 250 but am unsure how it will be on the thinner steel I need to do
I posted that question in the other welders thread so as not to sully this one.

[albrightree]

I think the MM250 will do fine on the sheet metal. My YA-212 will do 16 gauge and 18 gauge mild and stainless steel very well. That was with 035 wire, I was on Tap 3 or 4 so I wasn 't on the lowest setting. Haven't tried .025 wire in it yet, I don't have the feed wheel for it . You should give yours a try with .025 wire in it, I think youll be happy with the result. Do either of them have spot and stitch timers ?

best of luck

[KeyAir]

Good!
Hope to try some welding with it in the coming week.
Yes, both the 140 and the 250 have the spot and stitch panel... I think its standard with the MM's.