metal pipe play helicopter

[37ford4dr]

i am building this for the grand kids, it will have running lights, a swivel spot light, potentiometers that move the gauges and switches that control lights, a tractor or motorcyle battery and solar panel, a "rescue basket" and problay painted orange and white for USCG colors

[6Boys]

This is cool. Can't wait to see the finished product.

[Welder Dave]

What are you welding it with? Cool project but the welds look suspect.

[37ford4dr]

welds are ugly for sure......1/8 and 1/16 E6013, i have some 5/64 coming in a day or two.

I have gotten so spoiled my by MIG welding I havent touched stick welding in over 20 years. so i figured i would force myself to use the stick welder for this project and just keeping adding metal to the ugly spots. its strong as hell but corresponding ugly. any horizontal straight line welds looks really pretty, going around the tubing is less then desirable, its strong but really ugly, I figured I would just keep stick welding and do grinding to clean it up and if i need to clean up any areas either TIG weld it or MIG weld it.

I will admit I am having fun stick welding even though its not very pretty.

[OPUS FERRO]

37ford4dr

I have gotten so spoiled my by MIG welding I havent touched
stick welding in over 20 years. so i figured i would force myself
to use the stick welder for this project and just keeping adding
metal to the ugly spots.

I will admit I am having fun stick welding even though its not very
pretty.

Any stick, on pipe this small is 'last choice' - as noted, your product is
poor - and will do 'next to nothing' to advance your welding skills.

Dressing [grinding] on pipe joints this small only makes things uglier.
With proper joinery and MIG - it could have looked cast . . .

Conversely - big kudos for original design - for the Kiddies - at an age
when they will keep the memory of their Grandfather for life . . .

hth


Opus



ps - Tear Drop's - make me weak in the knees . . .




.

[37ford4dr]

interesting observation, I knew I could do it with the MIG and it would look really good and be pretty fast, TIG would just take too long.
I didnt realize that the stick welding was the last choice ( to start with) but I can tell you I certainly am living that observation and reality at this point. it was an effort getting good fitments of the tubes to each other. I look at these fun projects as just challenges to push my abilities and to learn new things, after all it just a kids toy to play in. thanks for the observations, bob

Any stick, on pipe this small is 'last choice' - as noted, your product is
poor - and will do 'next to nothing' to advance your welding skills.

Dressing [grinding] on pipe joints this small only makes things uglier.
With proper joinery and MIG - it could have looked cast . . .

Conversely - big kudos for original design - for the Kiddies - at an age
when they will keep the memory of their Grandfather for life . . .

hth


Opus



ps - Tear Drop's - make me weak in the knees . . .




.

[tapwelder]

Nice project. Wonderful you can do it for the grands.

Stick should be fine. No need to use 5/64. Isn't that stuff 1/8 thick? I would do 6011 at 3/32. Aside from pilot error, perhaps metal quality is an issue? I just think 6011 is more forgiving at different amperages. 6013 needs to be dialed in a bit closer to keep slag holidays to a minimum.

However, 6013 would run nice and clean if you can figure it out.

Not sure how much slower TIG would be given the cleanup required after stick.

[37ford4dr]

thanks for the input i appreciate it , I just looked at the rods I was using they were 3/32 not 1/8 (sorry i got that wrong before). I did try the 3/32 6011 thinking it might be a better choice and it was really "jumpy" on me and i could not get it started as easily as the 6013

the thickness of 1/2 sch40 is .109 and the 3/4 sch40 is .113

the biggest problem I had was with the 1/2 pipe to the 3/4 pipe connections, and I am sure its a combination of my skills on every level....and maybe less then the highest quality product, but lets blame my stick skills first. I dont get too stressed about these things its not like its a show car....and its just for fun.

I dont intend to do much clean up on it just a quick hit with a flap wheel to make sure its somewhat smooth. the 3/4 pipe was much easier to weld then the 1/2.
the next warm day i get i will clean it up and perhaps do some nice 1" long horizontal beads on the joints to make it look prettier. I can do those nice and pretty its following the tubing around the circumference that is challenging for me.

thanks bob

Nice project. Wonderful you can do it for the grands.

Stick should be fine. No need to use 5/64. Isn't that stuff 1/8 thick? I would do 6011 at 3/32. Aside from pilot error, perhaps metal quality is an issue? I just think 6011 is more forgiving at different amperages. 6013 needs to be dialed in a bit closer to keep slag holidays to a minimum.

However, 6013 would run nice and clean if you can figure it out.

Not sure how much slower TIG would be given the cleanup required after stick.

[123weld]

looks like alot of work for a play toy. i probabaly woulda took the kids to that orange homedepot cart, and said "heres ur helicopter" - alot easier. bein ur this far into it, might as well hang it from that big tree across at the neighbors, and let the kids crawl up into it

[37ford4dr]

looks like alot of work for a play toy. i probabaly woulda took the kids to that orange homedepot cart, and said "heres ur helicopter" - alot easier. bein ur this far into it, might as well hang it from that big tree across at the neighbors, and let the kids crawl up into it

my sons yard has a steep incline towards the neighbors yard, i expect one side of the helicopter will be at grade level and the other side will be 24" - 30" off grade ....good for rescue basket and jumping out. as for the work this is just for fun and i look forward to playing in it with them. i figure the kids will play in it until they are 10 or 11 so it can get passed around to other family members.

[123weld]

in the 90's i woked in a machine shop w/ a guy, that had a orange mustach w/ wax rolled in each end. he was a clever maticulous guy. he was a helicopter pilot/medic in vietnam, and to work, he carried his vietnam medic case, as a briefcase each day. he told me he had a helicopter he was putting together in his shop, that was 25+ yrs ago. about 2 yrs ago, im standing in line at jc pennys, a guy w/ a orange mastach rolled up on end, walks up to me and asks, where i know u from? i said, the machine shop. then i asked him if he ever got his helicopter going. his wife laughed, and said, everyone asks him that. anyway, have fun

[Continuum]

Looks like a nice project. And the GK will label you no1 in the family.

I see great mission creep potential. You should add a wood copter blade that turns from an old pedal and bike sprocket. Maybe put on a 3DOF pivot to improve flight experience

Welds are a tad rough. 6013 is a bugger if cold. Looks like black pipe. Suggest cleaning the coating and dusting to bare metal. Run 6013 to about 130 A and do more of a button weld on one or two sides since flight strength is not critical. It will weld just fine.

Will be a project that is always remembered by the family.

Regards

[37ford4dr]

...... Maybe put on a 3DOF pivot to improve flight experience

Regards

3DOF pivot whats this? the only rotating blade will be the tail rotor i want the kids to be able to stand up in it and not get whacked .... it is black sch40 pipe. it seems the 5/64 e6013 is the sweet spot at 50amps. Admittedly I had to relearn to stick weld and to build up low spots before trying to bridge them. the MIG spoiled me and ruined my stick welding skills but after getting reoriented to what was the best strategy for the varying degree of joint fitment which went form excellent to ah...dare i say poor...its gotten alot better. as I said before I dont to hung up in this process after all its just for fun. i do need to come up with a good joy stick pivot strategy so it can move in all directions. I was thinking of just drilling a larger hole in the joy stick and using a small diameter rod as the axis with 4 springs attached to the bottom of the pipe so it had a really sloppy movement in all directions and the springs would self center it. any thoughts? thanks bob

[Continuum]

3DOF pivot whats this? the only rotating blade will be the tail rotor i want the kids to be able to stand up in it and not get whacked .... it is black sch40 pipe. it seems the 5/64 e6013 is the sweet spot at 50amps. Admittedly I had to relearn to stick weld and to build up low spots before trying to bridge them. the MIG spoiled me and ruined my stick welding skills but after getting reoriented to what was the best strategy for the varying degree of joint fitment which went form excellent to ah...dare i say poor...its gotten alot better. as I said before I dont to hung up in this process after all its just for fun. i do need to come up with a good joy stick pivot strategy so it can move in all directions. I was thinking of just drilling a larger hole in the joy stick and using a small diameter rod as the axis with 4 springs attached to the bottom of the pipe so it had a really sloppy movement in all directions and the springs would self center it. any thoughts? thanks bob

Sorry. 3DOF = three degrees of freedom. Sounds like you’ll setup a yaw turn. Left right. Copy on the whirling blade. Sched 40 1” would be .133” wall thickness. I think 50 A is way too low. Suggest a hotter button type weld w 1/8 rod. I’ve used 6013 heavily. The swirling puddle can trap flux. Do a very hot tack in a few spots on the perimeter at 135 A. Then go back and run a bead about 3/8” long 120 A and get off before you burn through. The rods you’re using jiggle a lot and this can cause problems. Suggest 1/8”

[37ford4dr]

thanks its 3/4 and 1/2 black pipe. now that i have no gaps on any of my joints the 1/8 is working well to clean up the ugly build ups i had to do. i should have built up the open gaps more before I tried to bridge them. and yes i discovered the shorter beads work really well. thanks bob

[Continuum]

thanks its 3/4 and 1/2 black pipe. now that i have no gaps on any of my joints the 1/8 is working well to clean up the ugly build ups i had to do. i should have built up the open gaps more before I tried to bridge them. and yes i discovered the shorter beads work really well. thanks bob

Copy that. On thinner material I use a series of buttons to help build the base. It seems to help with wetting. Make a good tack on the start and end point. Chip the slag out. 6013 slag is very glassy. Then go back. Start on one side and use a circular motion but only go to the center. 6013 does better w more rod angle. Start the arc, warm and then back over the tack. I use a circular motion to help get the pool stabilized and to get the slag to separate. Weld halfway then stop. Chip slag clean. Repeat in other side moving towards center.

Admittedly I used to be a real grinder kind of guy. Now three years of hobby craft fab, I’m able to avoid many of the fails you encountered. I get buggered welds sometimes and it’s very frustrating. But it’s far less often. I then go back and grind the weld out and do it again. As you’re seeing, it’s a easier to rework and rewash the weld. It certainly takes more time, but I hate looking at my bad welds. I’ll look at an old project and think man I need to fix that.

[37ford4dr]

thanks

[Continuum]

thanks

Well that weld looks pretty nice to me. Well done.

[OPUS FERRO]

37ford4dr

For what you are doing - this weld standard is fine. Your pipe appears
to be 'coated' . . . ?

Black Iron Pipe is available - coated, and uncoated - the coated has a
quasi-saccharine smell when welded, and visibly burns.

The coating is a rust preventive - and doesn't take paint well unless
blasted.

When buying from a 'Real Steel Yard' - coated is usually the default
issue - you have to specify uncoated when ordering.

If you buy from 'The Big Box' or a retail plumbing supplier - coated is
probably their only offering . . .

hth


Opus



.

[farmersammm]

Hell............it's tough to weld that thin stuff with stick. It's a prime candidate for flux core wire. Or MIG.

[farmersammm]

I can say I'm the greatest welder on the planet, but I know damn sure I'd blow through that thin stuff with stick. Is what it is, and I can only do as good as I'm capable of.

Just a note..............6013 is said to be a low penetration rod...........which would make it seem to be a good rod for thin stuff..........but the heat input is the same as any other rod, and it will burn through..........plus it tends to leave slag pockets if you're not familiar with it. I'd venture a guess that you'd be better with a fast freeze rod like 5P Plus, or equivalent.

[Popeye an old miner]

thanks

I been weldin 45 years or so. Im no good at welding thin stuff, I dont do it enough, most stuff I weld is 1 or 2 inches thick, 3/8 is about as thin as i usually get and weldin pipe or around in a ring even flat is even worse for me. But what you got there is probably as good and maybe even better than what I could do, so dont beat yourself up over it, and dont let anyone else beat you up over it either, it looks good.

MIG? I dont know I think MIG would be even more difficult, but then again I very rarely weld with MIG, Im talkin about real MIG not flux core. Have fun the younguns aint gonna be judging yor welds either, they gonna be flyin it

[Continuum]

Yes coating is rust inhibitor. I clean w gasoline since it is so thick. This pipe material really isn’t that thin in my opinion. Sure, not 1/4” thick but enough to pour some heat into it. At least for a short time.

[37ford4dr]

thanks guys, a couple of the pieces of pipe did have a glossy finish to it, others did not.

as I look back on it, I can see my biggest problem was caused by poor fitting joints, that i tried to bridge at first. Once I figured that out. I built up gap areas and then had success and started having nice looking welds again.

I can bridge gaps easily with my MIG (w/gas) but wanted to renew my stick skills, in retrospect this was probably not the best project to accomplish this. but then I relearned alot that I forgotten so maybe it was the perfect project. so now i have to figure how i am going to treat the weld areas prior to painting....two approaches come to mind one paint them with seam sealer the other is to use fiberglass body filler on them. any other approaches? thanks bob

[Continuum]

Nice to hear on your bridging. I do this the same. Small button tacks to start a bridge then return for continuous weld. Could be in time you’d use SMAW over MIG?

Assume it’s sitting outside in the elements. I’d drill weep holes in a few spots to drain off water and just paint it. Not sure of the value of coating w fillers.