250-300 amp tig

[Louie1961]

Do you have an opinion between syncrowave250dx,invertig 313 and dynasty 280?

Dynasty 280, all day, every day, and twice on Sunday, if you can afford it.

[Louie1961]

Many model/years of sycrowave, what is your suggestion for my search? model, year, options etc. thanks

The underlying technology has remained the same for all of the transformer based Syncrowaves (they started making an inverter based Syncrowave in the last couple of years that I wouldn't bother with). The 250DX's with the built in cooler were prone to leakage from the cooler. in some model years, they offered the 250 with a pulser option and I believe a sequencer option. I have NEVER seen a used one for sale with those options, but if you could find one at a reasonable price, I would buy it. Otherwise, they are all pretty much the same. Just make sure you test it out well. Don't buy one that isn't 100% functional. They are a pain to fix.

[Louie1961]

Check these out

https://hgrinc.com/?all=1&view&aisle...rch_type=model

[Willie B]

Many model/years of sycrowave, what is your suggestion for my search? model, year, options etc. thanks

Yes, a customer has a Syncrowave ?180? A very different machine. I would NOT choose it. When Louie or I talk Syncrowave, we are talking 250, 300, I think I've seen a 350. The 250 wants 105? amps supply circuit. 300 & 350 bigger still.

You can buy a Syncrowave reasonable used these days. When I was looking for one they were $5500. new. I'm not sure if they are still building new ones, I don't think I'd pay the price for a new Syncrowave. Dynasty is a great welder! Years ago it was in my opinion best on the market, there have been a great many new machines offered since then.

[Oscar]

Do you have an opinion between syncrowave250dx,invertig 313 and dynasty 280?

For the price of a Dynasty 280, you could go one tier higher get a water-cooled HTP Invertig 400 + a 25-30HP rotary phase converter like my setup, and still have $700 to $1100 left over, with tons more juice compared to a Dynasty 280. Man, that feeling when you throttle in 400A of balls-to-the-walls "power" is pretty dang awesome. Or an Invertig 313 + a 20HP RPC and you'll have 80% duty cycle @ 300A, with ~$3,300 still in your pocket compared to a Dynasty 280. They are an incredible value for the money.

[Ralphm]

Check these out

https://hgrinc.com/?all=1&view&aisle...rch_type=model

Sorry for the delay, some problem with the refresh. I take good note of your advice and i will carefully asses the options before making a decision.
I also understand that Miller is able to serve me locally.

[Ralphm]

Yes, a customer has a Syncrowave ?180? A very different machine. I would NOT choose it. When Louie or I talk Syncrowave, we are talking 250, 300, I think I've seen a 350. The 250 wants 105? amps supply circuit. 300 & 350 bigger still.

You can buy a Syncrowave reasonable used these days. When I was looking for one they were $5500. new. I'm not sure if they are still building new ones, I don't think I'd pay the price for a new Syncrowave. Dynasty is a great welder! Years ago it was in my opinion best on the market, there have been a great many new machines offered since then.

All 250dx are equivalent? older and newer have the square wave and same result ?

[Ralphm]

For the price of a Dynasty 280, you could go one tier higher get a water-cooled HTP Invertig 400 + a 25-30HP rotary phase converter like my setup, and still have $700 to $1100 left over, with tons more juice compared to a Dynasty 280. Man, that feeling when you throttle in 400A of balls-to-the-walls "power" is pretty dang awesome. Or an Invertig 313 + a 20HP RPC and you'll have 80% duty cycle @ 300A, with ~$3,300 still in your pocket compared to a Dynasty 280. They are an incredible value for the money.

300 amp is enough for me and according to the testimony of geoff, it seems really powerful. Is the 313 is good for thin materials? Do you think the invertig have the same softness and the same balance as the miller according to what i read?

[Oscar]

Well "softness" isn't particularly defined, so I wont try to say yes or no, but for your stated purposes of aluminum if will definitely get the job done. Even without going with a phase converter for 3-phase, you still get 40% duty cycle @300A on single phase.

[ToolFanGeoff]

Ralphm, The Invertig 313 welds at the low end - thin material just as good as my 200 amp TIG. In 100% disclosure: On the Invertig, I turn the amps down more than what i am used to running on my AHP 200 amp machine. This is not a machine issue, it is me getting used to a more powerful machine - where the amps are most likely "real" instead of inflated. To me the Invertig feels "snappier". On my AHP, I left the amps at 200 and just used the peddle to control it. On the Invertig, I turn the amps down to a more realistic range for the material I am working on. Again, this is me - training my foot, not a machine issue.
You are looking at awesome pro level machines. If you were to choose the Invertig, you will not be disappointed. I needed more power for my projects. I got WAY more power. The Invertig is an awesome machine.
Geoff

[Munkul]

There's no doubt the HTP range is infinitely better than any Everlast, AHP, Primeweld etc.

[Willie B]

Soft is sort of vague. I haven't tried other manufacturers. Miller machines offer square, advanced square, sine, and something I can't remember, Sawtooth wave shape.

I barely can tell the difference between square & advanced square. Sawtooth, I can't think of a use. Sine wave is 1970 TIG aluminum, but I point out they in the 70s had helium.

Aluminum forms an oxide layer seconds after it is wire brushed.
Aluminum oxide is not very willing to conduct electricity.
Aluminum oxide melts to liquid about twice the temperature of the aluminum beneath it.
Cleaning, cathodic etching takes place in the EP (Electrode Positive) half cycle.
Older transformer, sine wave AC TIG welders (Dialarc HF) produced 60 cycle sine wave AC power with an overrunning high frequency, high voltage, low current.
Shielding gas is reluctant to conduct the flow of electrons. To conduct, it must be ionized, ionized gas has too few or too many electrons. Ionization is lost in the short sags between sine wave current changing directions. HF (high frequency) in part stabilized ionization, but is less effective than square wave current, which changes directions instantly, too fast to lose ionization.
Sine wave must reestablish ionization each half cycle. The EN (electrode negative) half cycle is very effective at establishing ionization, electrons build on the point of the tungsten, then ionize some gas immediately around the point. The closest gas ionizes, the rest comes easily.
Electrode positive half cycle, electrons pile up on a poor conductor surface, there is less concentration. Build must be greater before a conductive path is created. For this reason, Sine wave power, usually fixed at 50/50 balance is less effective at cathodic etching, (cleaning of the oxide layer) than square wave power.
Sine wave, usually 50/50 EP/EN devotes more of its heat to the EP half cycle. Heat flows mostly in the direction of the electron flow. If 50% of the electron flow goes toward the tungsten, it melts the tungsten quickly.

We can usually balance the rate of EN/EP with square wave power. I feel 70% EN/30% EP is equivalent in cathodic etching to 50/50 sine wave. Therefore square wave pushes less heat to the torch, more to the workpiece. Where alloyed tungsten wouldn't tolerate sine wave power, it remains pointed, better narrowing the arc.

Older weldors have learned to make it work, newer weldors rarely can match the performance of square wave with sine wave power. Adjustable frequency gives control over factors like weld width & depth of penetration.

Pulse can give intense sudden heat to melt, then a pause to freeze, nice feature.

Now I've over summarized, experts will find plenty of skimming over the essentials. In a crude way I've explained why I prefer square wave over sine wave for aluminum welding. None of this matters for steel welding.

Transformer welders use a ton more power to function.

[Willie B]

I have two TIG welders right now. One is a modern AC/DC inverter with pretty much every option you can think of and it welds beautifully. The other is a Syncrowave 250DX so a standard square wave transformer machine. For aluminum 1/8" thick or thicker I have always gotten slightly better results with the Syncrowave. I don't know why, but it must just be me. I've spent hours with the two machines next to one another trying to get identical results and no matter what I do, the finished product is just a bit nicer with the Miller. It's actually sort of annoying! It's a small difference, and you probably wouldn't notice it if I didn't point it out, and put two finished pieces together to show you, but it's there for some reason.

So, like the other guys have said, for the work you're talking about you shouldn't notice any difference. Thin material is where the new features really make a difference. If you plan working with thin material the inverter features are definitely worth it.

When my only machine was a Dialarc 250HF 600 lbs of iron & copper, my son's father in law came with a fussy little thin sheet part for a 1957 Cessna aircraft. He couldn't find a replacement. I gave it a shot. I had been practicing with beer cans, welded a few. This thing must have been about .020" thick. I successfully repaired it with a big sine wave machine. Yes, I'd be more confident with my now Dynasty with all the features, but thin can be done well with big machines with sine wave.

[Oscar]

Ralphm, The Invertig 313 welds at the low end - thin material just as good as my 200 amp TIG. In 100% disclosure: On the Invertig, I turn the amps down more than what i am used to running on my AHP 200 amp machine. This is not a machine issue, it is me getting used to a more powerful machine - where the amps are most likely "real" instead of inflated. To me the Invertig feels "snappier". On my AHP, I left the amps at 200 and just used the peddle to control it. On the Invertig, I turn the amps down to a more realistic range for the material I am working on. Again, this is me - training my foot, not a machine issue.
You are looking at awesome pro level machines. If you were to choose the Invertig, you will not be disappointed. I needed more power for my projects. I got WAY more power. The Invertig is an awesome machine.
Geoff

I noticed this myself with the Invertig 400, even on 1-Φ input power. Using a 5/32" tungsten on mild steel with a pretty normal taper/grind, even though it was handling the amperage no problem, I noticed that seemingly there was a massive amount of arc voltage in the 300A+ range that was literally pushing the molten metal so much, a very wide and deep divot would be created and carried along with the weld pool, and no amount of filler or torch manipulation was able to correct it underneath the arc; the arc would simply push it out of the way! User "mreuter" also notice this abundance of "horsepower" on his Invertig 400 (even though he referred to it as "torque", probably because at the same amperage he was getting a lot of total heat input compared to before).

That is a 5/32" ER70S-2 filler rod, so you can get an idea of how large that divot is. You can literally see how deep the penetration is and even tell the where the two 3/4" plates met in a 90° T-joint. The angle of the parting-line looks "off" but that is because it was pushing more of the top vertical plate than the bottom plate, so it's kinda like it was beveling it along the way. This reminded me of the K-TIG Australian system that I had seen on Youtube.




This was the grind on the tungsten:





After trial and error, the only way to rectify this (at that time) on the 5/32" tungsten was to increase the included angle to about 100-105° in order to channel the arc energy more "straight down":




This resulted in more arc pressure where it needed to be. At 400A, the bead ends up being just a hair over 5/8" wide on that 3/4" plate joint





I have now gotten much better results using 3/16" and 1/4" tungstens at elevated power levels. The tungstens stay cooler and it helps prevent the arc voltage from straying off to the sides too much.

[Ralphm]

Ralphm, The Invertig 313 welds at the low end - thin material just as good as my 200 amp TIG. In 100% disclosure: On the Invertig, I turn the amps down more than what i am used to running on my AHP 200 amp machine. This is not a machine issue, it is me getting used to a more powerful machine - where the amps are most likely "real" instead of inflated. To me the Invertig feels "snappier". On my AHP, I left the amps at 200 and just used the peddle to control it. On the Invertig, I turn the amps down to a more realistic range for the material I am working on. Again, this is me - training my foot, not a machine issue.
You are looking at awesome pro level machines. If you were to choose the Invertig, you will not be disappointed. I needed more power for my projects. I got WAY more power. The Invertig is an awesome machine.
Geoff

Thanks, very good description, very helpful

[Ralphm]

Very good course in chemistry and physics applyed to welding. I read a lot about fonction of inverters but i did not understand the difference in the result between sine wave and square wave. It is much clearer to me know. very appreciated.

[Ralphm]

Soft is sort of vague. I haven't tried other manufacturers. Miller machines offer square, advanced square, sine, and something I can't remember, Sawtooth wave shape.

I barely can tell the difference between square & advanced square. Sawtooth, I can't think of a use. Sine wave is 1970 TIG aluminum, but I point out they in the 70s had helium.

Aluminum forms an oxide layer seconds after it is wire brushed.
Aluminum oxide is not very willing to conduct electricity.
Aluminum oxide melts to liquid about twice the temperature of the aluminum beneath it.
Cleaning, cathodic etching takes place in the EP (Electrode Positive) half cycle.
Older transformer, sine wave AC TIG welders (Dialarc HF) produced 60 cycle sine wave AC power with an overrunning high frequency, high voltage, low current.
Shielding gas is reluctant to conduct the flow of electrons. To conduct, it must be ionized, ionized gas has too few or too many electrons. Ionization is lost in the short sags between sine wave current changing directions. HF (high frequency) in part stabilized ionization, but is less effective than square wave current, which changes directions instantly, too fast to lose ionization.
Sine wave must reestablish ionization each half cycle. The EN (electrode negative) half cycle is very effective at establishing ionization, electrons build on the point of the tungsten, then ionize some gas immediately around the point. The closest gas ionizes, the rest comes easily.
Electrode positive half cycle, electrons pile up on a poor conductor surface, there is less concentration. Build must be greater before a conductive path is created. For this reason, Sine wave power, usually fixed at 50/50 balance is less effective at cathodic etching, (cleaning of the oxide layer) than square wave power.
Sine wave, usually 50/50 EP/EN devotes more of its heat to the EP half cycle. Heat flows mostly in the direction of the electron flow. If 50% of the electron flow goes toward the tungsten, it melts the tungsten quickly.

We can usually balance the rate of EN/EP with square wave power. I feel 70% EN/30% EP is equivalent in cathodic etching to 50/50 sine wave. Therefore square wave pushes less heat to the torch, more to the workpiece. Where alloyed tungsten wouldn't tolerate sine wave power, it remains pointed, better narrowing the arc.

Older weldors have learned to make it work, newer weldors rarely can match the performance of square wave with sine wave power. Adjustable frequency gives control over factors like weld width & depth of penetration.

Pulse can give intense sudden heat to melt, then a pause to freeze, nice feature.

Now I've over summarized, experts will find plenty of skimming over the essentials. In a crude way I've explained why I prefer square wave over sine wave for aluminum welding. None of this matters for steel welding.

Transformer welders use a ton more power to function.

Very good course in chemistry and physics applyed to welding. I read a lot about fonction of inverters but i did not understand the difference in the result between sine wave and square wave. It is much clearer to me know. very appreciated.

[Willie B]

Very good course in chemistry and physics applyed to welding. I read a lot about fonction of inverters but i did not understand the difference in the result between sine wave and square wave. It is much clearer to me know. very appreciated.

Any time.

[G-ManBart]

Many model/years of sycrowave, what is your suggestion for my search? model, year, options etc. thanks

There is almost no difference in how any version of the Syncrowave 250 will weld, but there is a difference in how they are supported as far as parts go. I have had them from the first couple of years to one that's only a few years old and they all will produce similar quality welds. The DX version did have a pulser and sequencer option which can be added later since they're a modular plug-in setup.

I would stick to 2007 or newer machines. That avoids the versions that had the water cooler built into the left side (as you look at the front) and keeps you in the machines that are still supported with almost every repair part still available (if not every part). I think the TIGRunner setup with the welder mounted on top of the cooler and running gear is the way to go, and that's the setup I have...pretty much a machine you can run all day, every day and expect it to always work.

A Dynasty 280 would offer more capability, and lower power draw if you can get one at a reasonable price...no argument there.

I follow used welder prices pretty closely at all the big auctions...local and nationally, and prices have jumped in the past year or two. I used to be able to get a nice Syncrowave 250DX TIGRunner setup for $2,000 to $2500 easily and sometimes far less ($685 was my best buy)....now they bring at least $1,000 more and sometimes $2,000 more.

[G-ManBart]

When my only machine was a Dialarc 250HF 600 lbs of iron & copper, my son's father in law came with a fussy little thin sheet part for a 1957 Cessna aircraft. He couldn't find a replacement. I gave it a shot. I had been practicing with beer cans, welded a few. This thing must have been about .020" thick. I successfully repaired it with a big sine wave machine. Yes, I'd be more confident with my now Dynasty with all the features, but thin can be done well with big machines with sine wave.

No argument there. I wasn't saying thin couldn't be done with the older machines. I was just saying that thin material is where the new features make a difference and make things easier.

[psacustomcreations]

I'd avoid starting with a plan to use helium. It is EXPENSIVE, & hard to get. Industry needs it & supplies are sporadic. Start with at least a 250 amp AC machine, 60% duty cycle. Later if you find you want to repair an engine block or other BIG item, you might spring for a bottle of helium.

I suggested helium as an alternative in the beginning of the thread. At the time, the OP did not mention his budget or the actual frequency of welding thicker material. A quick read through shows it looks like he still hasn't mentioned his budget. Or his space and power available.
He was given a range of price points from $2,000 to $12,000.
Yes, helium is expensive.
Yes, you need more horsepower for thicker material.
Yes, the best advice is usually "Buy once, cry once." Some can't afford that initial upfront cost.
One bottle of helium a year is still cheaper than the wide price difference.


Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

[Ralphm]

[QUOTE=G-ManBart;8843525]There is almost no difference in how any version of the Syncrowave 250 will weld, but there is a difference in how they are supported as far as parts go. I have had them from the first couple of years to one that's only a few years old and they all will produce similar quality welds. The DX version did have a pulser and sequencer option which can be added later since they're a modular plug-in setup.

I would stick to 2007 or newer machines. That avoids the versions that had the water cooler built into the left side (as you look at the front) and keeps you in the machines that are still supported with almost every repair part still available (if not every part). I think the TIGRunner setup with the welder mounted on top of the cooler and running gear is the way to go, and that's the setup I have...pretty much a machine you can run all day, every day and expect it to always work.

A Dynasty 280 would offer more capability, and lower power draw if you can get one at a reasonable price...no argument there.

I follow used welder prices pretty closely at all the big auctions...local and nationally, and prices have jumped in the past year or two. I used to be able to get a nice Syncrowave 250DX TIGRunner setup for $2,000 to $2500 easily and sometimes far less ($685 was my best buy)....now they bring at least $1,000 more and sometimes $2,000 more.[/QUOTE

This is the one with the bad cooler ?
Here is a syncrowave 350lx i found for sale

[Ralphm]

There's no doubt the HTP range is infinitely better than any Everlast, AHP, Primeweld etc.

I notice you come from UK, i can't find a lot of information and review on stel welder in europe, it seem's the rebrand htp has more review (and owner)
When i do some research on tig welder in europe, rarely i can find the stel name. Maybe the search here do not give the same results as yours.

[Ralphm]

I suggested helium as an alternative in the beginning of the thread. At the time, the OP did not mention his budget or the actual frequency of welding thicker material. A quick read through shows it looks like he still hasn't mentioned his budget. Or his space and power available.
He was given a range of price points from $2,000 to $12,000.
Yes, helium is expensive.
Yes, you need more horsepower for thicker material.
Yes, the best advice is usually "Buy once, cry once." Some can't afford that initial upfront cost.
One bottle of helium a year is still cheaper than the wide price difference.


Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

The budget is not defined, that's why i consult experienced people like you. If needed, i can buy a 280dx but this is not my wish because i do not earn money with this machine.
I can do 90% of what i want with a 200-220amp welder. 10% for 1/4 and 3/8 aluminum. I weld especially aluminum.
For the space my preference is one machine but i can live with 2 if i save 10 000$.
For 90% i prefer to be plugged into the 220v and i have acces to the 575v 3 phase for the thick metal.

A very good 220amp welder and helium would be my first choice if it can get the job done. But, i don't want to make a mistake by buying the wrong device.

[Oscar]

helium would be my first choice if it can get the job done. But, i don't want to make a mistake by buying the wrong device.

have you checked your local sources for the cost of welding helium tank? (not the one for balloons, as that has air mixed in it, which is not correct for welding). You might be in for a surprise.