Hub Puller Bad Gateway Update

[farmersammm]

Well Round II went just as I figured.........

The First Round was the "factory" method. Beat on it from above. I gave up on that a week ago.

Round II was using the new puller without heat...............Likewise, it didn't budge.....even with some gentle() tapping with a tire sledge. Not overly crazy, just enough to set up a vibration.

It was too late in the day to get the torch out (I have a bunch of stuff blocking it, and need to tidy the shop up a bit).

Probably start off with the small OA rosebud. I really hate to put too much heat under the jack.

If the little rosebud doesn't work(which I don't think it will), I guess we'll roll out the mega btu propane rig. I'm thinking I'll put the bulk of the heat into it with the jack off the shaft, then throw the jack on, and just finoogie a bit more heat into it and let it cool off with the jack providing strain. Most times............hubs seem to want to pop off during the cooling cycle. I guess the high heat, and subsequent cooling, breaks any rust bond as the metal moves out and back.

The mowchinist in me, hates banging on stuff that's on a bearing. Brinell a bearing, and it's worthless.

[farmersammm]

Round 3 Goes

to The Hog!!

Got everything set up. Cracked the valve on the Oxygen bottle...............and the stinkin' low pressure gauge goes to 200 Crack the valve on the torch, and it came back down to 60 if you kept the valve open.

So, I get my lovely assistant K'kins to do fire watch, and warn here to stay the Hell away from the heatiing rig (I'm afraid the regulator might blow).

Got fired up, and just started heating(about 1 minute)...............................when POP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The diaphragm in the regulator went South, and was dumping Oxygen out of the vent ports

Tomorrow is another day



I figure I'll cut the bolt heads off the pan, and remove it, so I can get better access to the hub for heat application. This is gonna probably take a bit of heat to get it off. With the pan on, I only have a very limited area I can access with the heating tip.

[whtbaron]

Went through that with a honey wagon pump that hadn't been opened up for 35 yrs. I found it worked better if I threw it all out in a snowbank at -35 before I started heating and pulling. Just saying...

[farmersammm]

Went through that with a honey wagon pump that hadn't been opened up for 35 yrs. I found it worked better if I threw it all out in a snowbank at -35 before I started heating and pulling. Just saying...

Maybe I can put it in the refrigerator for a coupla days

[farmersammm]

I didn't get around to cutting the bolts today, but I did get the regulator fixed. $26 all told. Guy fixed some sort of pin looking thing, and replaced the diaphragm, then checked the Bourdon tube to see if it had been bent. Works fine.

I did put some heat into the assembly, and no go Cut the bolts in the morning.



Blade pan is held to the hub by bolts. I just found these diagrams this evening. You can see why it's futile to apply heat without removing the entire blade pan assembly.



The hub (#40) has to be heated once all the obstructions are removed. I'm pretty sure I have a regular puller big enough to handle it. If not, I can use a bearing separator, and thread some rods to use with the new "mother of all pullers". Might even be easier to make a quickie collar that can be used with the new puller, and the existing rods.

Another bad deal............the shaft probably has about .015 radial slop. If it's worn bearings I'm lucky. If the bearings wore into the shaft, I'm looking at a new shaft. If the cups wore into the casting, it's fixable if I can get it on the milling machine.............which might be a stretch because I'm sure I don't have enough spindle to table top clearance.

[whtbaron]

I haven't tried it on a high speed shaft, but I have had good luck rebuilding cultivator and combine spindles after wheel bearings have locked up or blown apart. I just used the mig and the old bearing to check clearances. I was careful to work slow and not put a lot of heat into the shaft and do 4 sides evenly. You have a lathe so you could be a lot more accurate, I was just turning them back down with a hand grinder. I'm still after that "Grinder of the Year" award...

[12V71]

This is my go to puller for hubs that have bolt holes. 2 sets of 5 legs short and long , has a 1 inch fine thread screw. I estimate 20 tons with a 3/4" impact. Got it for 20 bucks out of the used tool bin on the MAC tool truck. It will pull some pretty big hubs off tapered shafts on drilling equipment.

[whtbaron]

I used to borrow one similar to that for removing early Dodge brake drums. It had 2 anvils you beat with a hammer instead of the impact friendly nut though. I tried to get it after the garage burned down, but the scrappers beat me to it. Would have been interesting to see if it had lost too much temper. I've been using a vice on the old welding bench that came out of a barn fire and I haven't been able to break it yet.

[12V71]

I used to borrow one similar to that for removing early Dodge brake drums. It had 2 anvils you beat with a hammer instead of the impact friendly nut though. I tried to get it after the garage burned down, but the scrappers beat me to it. Would have been interesting to see if it had lost too much temper. I've been using a vice on the old welding bench that came out of a barn fire and I haven't been able to break it yet.

This one had the anvils that slipped over the hex head too. I haven't seen it for 10 years, probably buried in one of the 4 rollaway boxes. I think there is stuff in there I forgot I have.

[farmersammm]

The bolt heads were cut off to remove the pan. It's impossible to reach the underside through the access hole to put a wrench on the nuts............so you sacrifice the bolts. All went fairly smooth, with the exception of one bolt head where the oxygen stream strayed into the plate, and gouged it. This happens sometimes..........I always warn about this when I talk about scarfing

The dishpan, and blade plate, are removed for access to the hub.

Then The Fun Starts

This was a really tough one. Normally I only have to heat one segment of a hub, and it'll pop off. This time, I had to heat two opposite segments to get it done. It popped off while it was cooling. I'd turned my back to shut the torch off, and put it back on the cart..............AND KAPOW!!!!!!!!!!!. K'kins was the one who saw it pop. She gets a kick out of this stuff

[farmersammm]

I used to borrow one similar to that for removing early Dodge brake drums. It had 2 anvils you beat with a hammer instead of the impact friendly nut though. I tried to get it after the garage burned down, but the scrappers beat me to it. Would have been interesting to see if it had lost too much temper. I've been using a vice on the old welding bench that came out of a barn fire and I haven't been able to break it yet.

BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I used to rent one to pull the hubs off my Father's 64 Coronet. Total PITA,, but it was the way they built them.

[farmersammm]

Gearbox Diagnosis

Shaft End Play



.006 endplay

Runout



.002 runout

It's my feeling that the gearbox is healthy, and needs readjustment of the tapered roller bearing preload. I'd be very happy with about .0015 endplay. My thought is............the excessive endplay is contributing to the runout......remove it, and runout ought to come back in line. I do NOT want an actual preload on these bearings......there should be endplay, much like any spindle bearing pack made up of Timken tapered roller bearings.

The gearbox is designed, if I'm reading the drawings right, so that I may have to remove the input shaft to change the preload on the output shaft. This involves a set of gaskets, and another seal........plus the labor. This piece of equipment is holding up haying right now. I need to decide whether to put the new seal in that's been leaking, and just run it..........or spend the time going into the gearbox.

[farmersammm]

Hub, and Taper

In a word...........pristine.





I have no issues with this part of the assembly. To be sure, I'll probably check face runout on the hub to be sure that heating didn't warp it.

[Oxford1]

Gearbox Diagnosis

Shaft End Play



.006 endplay

Runout



.002 runout

This piece of equipment is holding up haying right now. I need to decide whether to put the new seal in that's been leaking, and just run it..........or spend the time going into the gearbox.

And away we go. If it’s holding up haying, and hay is seemingly always a crisis for you, then why in the world are you fiddle****ing around (again), indulging yourself with your machinist gobbledygook, instead of getting on with fixing the thing? Put the damn seal in and get to getting. I suppose it couldn’t have anything to do with getting attaboys and pats on the head from your amen chorus.....

Said it before: I feel sorry for your cows. That must be some nice hay, cut with a Bush Hog.

[Meltedmetal]

Looks like the leak might have been though the metal part of the seal.

[Zimm]

And away we go. If it’s holding up haying, and hay is seemingly always a crisis for you, then why in the world are you fiddle****ing around (again), indulging yourself with your machinist gobbledygook, instead of getting on with fixing the thing? Put the damn seal in and get to getting. I suppose it couldn’t have anything to do with getting attaboys and pats on the head from your amen chorus.....

Said it before: I feel sorry for your cows. That must be some nice hay, cut with a Bush Hog.

What are you, Sammm's personal troll? 33 posts and I don't recall seeing anything from you but ragging on the guy.

Nice hobby.

[BD1]

What make, size, and gearbox rating is that ?
With parts being expensive, buying a replacement mower maybe cheaper and less of a headache.


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[farmersammm]

What make, size, and gearbox rating is that ?
With parts being expensive, buying a replacement mower maybe cheaper and less of a headache.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

150hp max Rhino made some pretty nice stuff back in the day, I'm assuming they still do??

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/15...page=85#manual

[BD1]

150hp max

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/15...page=85#manual

150 HP gearbox !! Dam, that's a beast.


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[BD1]

150hp max Rhino made some pretty nice stuff back in the day, I'm assuming they still do??

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/15...page=85#manual

I can imagine what that cost today.


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[whtbaron]

And away we go. If it’s holding up haying, and hay is seemingly always a crisis for you, then why in the world are you fiddle****ing around (again), indulging yourself with your machinist gobbledygook, instead of getting on with fixing the thing? Put the damn seal in and get to getting. I suppose it couldn’t have anything to do with getting attaboys and pats on the head from your amen chorus.....

Said it before: I feel sorry for your cows. That must be some nice hay, cut with a Bush Hog.

pfffft.... what difference does it make what he cuts it with? Grass rats eat pretty much anything if they are hungry enough.

I have to agree with BD1.... around here you can pick up a complete mower in similar condition to yours (hopefully working) for about the price of that gearbox. I'm on my last spare wobble box for the old swather too, and debating if I should just cough up for a rebuilt wobble box or buy another parts machine .

[farmersammm]

The seal couldn't be removed from below, and has to be driven out by the shaft when the shaft is removed. I tried my best, but all I did was mangle the seal without being able to lever it out of the bore. At this point I gave up, and decided to open up the box to see about removing the shaft.

This thing can't be run like it is. Last time it was run was back in 2011, and still held oil at that time. I guess over the years the seal failed, and water got in somehow. The rust isn't as bad as it looks. I couldn't find any pitting on the gear faces (whew)

The entire gear case if full of oxidization (I guess) It would tear the bearings up if you refilled, and just ran it.

I tried removing the bearing adjusting nut, but it won't move easily using a drift.......note that it's a castillated nut.

I have half a dozen hook, and pin, spanners............but you can't get room inside the case to use them.

McMaster has castellated sockets (this nut is a 2 1/4 approx. size) https://www.mcmaster.com/sockets/spanner-sockets/ I'll be damned if I'll pay over $400 for a socket

But Sammy ain't gonna get beat that easy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I always scrounge from the oilfield pump rebuilders around here. They let me have their scrap sleeves (dunno what they're used for, but they're expensive, and a harder material than plain ol' pipe)

I got lucky!! I have a 10' section of the stuff in almost the perfect size to make the socket

So...................we're gonna pull the gearbox, and put it up in the shop till I can get to it. We'll just have to use a chainsaw, or rent a cutter, to get the work done. I have some bad areas in the hay meadow that have to be cut in order to even get the swather into the field. And I need to cut a path off our place too. The swather doesn't fit through the gate, and always has to be run through the fence up to the highway

[M J D]

I've always just bought a cheap impact socket that the o.d. was close to the i.d. of the slots and welded small pieces of keystock to it for the pins. Of course Ive never had one I couldn't loosen with a punch provided I could access it easily such as yours.

[whtbaron]

My tandem disk uses 2 1/4" nuts on the end of the gang bolts too. For the square end I built a wrench, but I got a Chinese socket for the SAE end. Think I paid around $35 Cdn. and I've used it with a 1/2" impact, but I wrap it in tape in case the bits fly. Once you get up to those sizes they are pretty hard to break so I'm not paying SnapOn prices.

Ooops.... skipped over the spanner socket part...... carry on...

[whtbaron]

I've always just bought a cheap impact socket that the o.d. was close to the i.d. of the slots and welded small pieces of keystock to it for the pins. Of course Ive never had one I couldn't loosen with a punch provided I could access it easily such as yours.

Flattened punch in the air chisel works well too....