Im sure someone will give the correct answer;however, there is a tolerance in degrees to determine what position it is.

 

I'll try to post a diagram, but it is not much better than my explanation.

1G = Flat Position, which is from an inclination of axis(up and down) of 0(flat) to 15 degrees and a rotation of face(left and right) from 150 to 210 degrees.

3G = Vertical Position has two sets of parameters.
An inclination of axis of 15 - 80 degrees and a rotation of face from 80 - 280 degrees.
An inclination of axis of 80 - 90 degrees and a rotation of face from 0 - 360 degrees.

A weld at 45 degrees is either 3G or 4G, depending on the rotation of face.

disclaimer:
Image result found on some random site on the internet. Not, I repeat NOT copied from AWS D1.1/D1.1M:2006.

 

in between must be 1 1/2 G ....

 

Thanks Chris! The diagram really helped.

 

^^^ Ditto. Thx for the diagram.

 

in between must be 1 1/2 G ....

In between is the G spot

 

No worries guys.

 

I was thinking about this today at work. When does the 1G position become 3G? If the surface to be welded is anything other than dead level is it then a 3G or is there a certain point at which it changes?

If you had a joint that was at a 45 degree angle, its neither flat or completely vertical, so what is it?

1G/2G/3G/etc is only for testing. a 3G test would be at 90 degrees to flat (unless you have a tester that allows you a 5 degree cheat

But it's irrelevant terminology when you're actually welding it. Easier to just say it's 'flat' or 'out of position'.

Of course, as Chris Welds pointed out, they CAN get technical - especially if you're only qualified to weld in a certain position, and the welding requires specific welding credentials from the welder I guess.

 

Oh yah, to answer your question, or a variation of it: how to know when it's no longer a 3G position? When the guy marking the welding test comes and straightens it with a level

 

they CAN get technical - especially if you're only qualified to weld in a certain position, and the welding requires specific welding credentials from the welder I guess.

Oh they get technical
Depending on what your working on within our company you could need several certs. Everything is by the book, you HAVE TO be certified.
no exceptions. We have a couple CWIs and they have there own department where all that happens. Its a real joy goin up there

 

1G = Flat position
2G = Horizontal position
3G = Vertical (up) position {If you are going to use the designation, you're going to weld to code, go up, except to repair undercut.}
4G = Overhead position

...or were you talking about pipe.

 

1G/2G/3G/etc is only for testing. a 3G test would be at 90 degrees to flat (unless you have a tester that allows you a 5 degree cheat

But it's irrelevant terminology when you're actually welding it.

Wrong.

A tester that allows a '5 degree cheat' is risking any faith they get from an oversight agency or AI, and, depending on the job, may be committing fraud. Get caught doing this with an ASME or National Board stamp, may even lose the stamp for the company.

It is relevant when actually welding it. Let a welder with 1G run 3G, you will cut the weld out, you will have a lot of paperwork in the process, and there may be other repercussions. (yes, you can qualify on a workpiece under some codes, via radiography, via cutout samples, etc. doesn't apply to original statement)

 

go buy the procedure of arc welding by lincolin electric it will help you out a lot or check it out from your library best investment i ever made

 

Tanglediver,
3G position is vertical up or vertical down.
For welding procedures it can be up or down but for welder qualification if you qualify on up you can't go down and vice versa.
Cheers,
BB

 

Wouldn't know, I normally test in 6G or a production butt.

 

Sorry to jump on this again guys,
There is no such thing as a 5 degree "cheat".
The diagram that Chris Weld has supplied (not from AWS D1.1 !!!) is the exact same diagram that is in ASME IX.
Based on that diagram if you had the rotation with the weld on the top you could have your coupon placed anywhere between 16 and 90 degrees and it would still be classed as 3G in accordance with the code.
However,to be practical you would use the second set of readings which are 80 to 90 degrees, although in reality it is actually 80 to 100 degrees (plate leaning towards you 10 degrees or plate leaning away from you 10 degrees.)
I have supervised hundreds of weld tests and apart from 6G tests I never put a spirit level on anything.
Regards,
BB

 

1G,2G,3G,4G,5G,6G are test positions for welder qualification tests.

Flat, Horizontal, Vertical, and Overhead are welding positions for production.

ASME Sec IX says

Groove welds may be made in test coupons oriented in
any of the positions in figure QW-461.3 or figure
QW-461.4 and as described in the following paragraphs,
except that an angular deviation of ±15 deg from the specified
horizontal and vertical planes, and an angular deviation
of ±5 deg from the specified inclined plane are permitted
during welding.

Based upon this statement, an inspector allowing a deviation from the "True" axis is not allowing something outside the allowance of the ASME Boiler and Pressure Vessel Code Sec IX 2007 edition.

A welder takes a test in the 3G position (Which allows for a 15 degree tilt as indicated by sec IX) is qualified to weld in the Flat and Horizontal Position.

The test positions such as 3G are NOT the same as the production welding position "Vertical". Below is part of the chart used to determine the actual WELD position.

For example, a person takes a test 3G and his papers indicate he is qualified 3G and 1G. He has a weld to make inclined 45 degrees as shown below. That position is NOT 3G or 1G. It is still vertical yet his papers don't reflect that because the person completing the document incorrectly referred to the range of qualification as 1G,3G instead of Flat, Vertical.

There is a little more detail on my page at http://weldingdata.com/testpositionsVSWeldPositions.htm .

Gerald Austin

 

Gerald, good to see you posting more frequently, raising the bar

 

Hello pipewelder_1999,
Greetings from New Caledonia.
Cheers,
Shane

 

good to see both of you over here

 

3G is vertical up/down, but the qualification is different.

If you qualify 3g vertical up, you qualify down

Qualifying down does not qualify up.

Just like qualifying without backing qualifies with backing, but qualifying with backing does not qualify without.

 

kbnit, do you have a reference for that?

 

qaqc

AWS D17.1
AMS-STD-1595
AWS B2.1
AWS D1.2

 

kbnit, i don't have a copy of the codes listed. I was unaware that these codes allow certification for both progressions on vert. I will have to do some reading. thanks

 

Kbnit,
I sincerely hope the welding inspectors you are "teaching" are not working with ASME IX or AWS D1.1.
ASME IX ( QW 405.3) and AWS D1.1 ((Table 4.11(5)) both class direction of travel (vertical up/down) as an essential variable so if you change your direction of travel from what you qualified on and you will need to requalify. Vertical up does not qualify vertical down.
I will qualify this statement by saying I do not have access to the codes you have quoted but I would be very surprised if AWS D1.1 differed from the other AWS codes you have quoted.
Regards,
BB

 

I would call it Out Of Position Weld.


But as state 1G is Flat, 2G is Horizontal, 3G is Vertical, 4G is Overhead.

 

I do agree that a 1G test is done flat, 2G horiz, 3G Vertical, and 4G overhead. However a flat position production weld is not a 1G nor is a Vertical Position Weld a 3G etc.