Lincoln SP 175 Plus

[MarkBall2]

Billy,
I'll check that this afternoon when I get home from work. I dislike unplugging wires, but I see what you mean about that heavy cable. In the blurry photo, it does look like it's been shined up some.

David,
I don't think I can drop by today. It might take a day or so to drive there from Yuma.

[MoonRise]

Road Trip!!

Before going through and disconnecting diodes and things like that, start with the easy to check and easy to fix (and easy to get wrong too) things like:

- polarity
- good connections

Also make sure you don't have so much drag on the wire spool that the drive motor can't feed the wire like its supposed to! All you need is just enough drag on the wire spool that it doesn't unravel itself. Once you have that small amount of drag set on the spool, then you adjust the drive rollers so that they have just enough 'squish' on the wire that it can feed OK.

You already took care of the dodgy torch liner.

Hmmmm, I wonder if the torch cable was bent or squashed. That could have been why the liner was crappy and it could have damaged the conductor in the cable. When you use the torch for a little while, is there any one section/area on the torch cable that is hotter than the rest? If so, that -could- indicate a damaged internal area of the conductor. The fix in that case is to get a new torch/cable.

If you don't know electronics and have some of the tools/meters, I'd say to just take the machine to a repair center/tech and have them check the machine out.

[MarkBall2]

Moon, the torch liner had 3 kinks in it when I first received the welder. I tried to straighten them, but no dice. After I got the new liner, I looked at the nylon one & it had 2 kinks in it too. The new liner stopped the wire feeding problem too.

Now that you mention it, when I switched to the solid wire & gas on the Hobart, I didn't change the polarity. I bet that's why I have all the dingleberry's!!!!! Boy that's no fun cleaning them off.

[MarkBall2]

Here is the email response I got to my question I sent Lincoln:

Question posed:

I have a used Lincoln SP 175 Plus GMAW welder. I've replaced the liner to correct a feed problem & it has solved that.

However, as I was testing it, I followed the chart in the Owners Manual/inside the door welding 1/8" scrap. I cleaned off the mill scale/rust & the settings were D-3 according to the chart (for 0.35 Innershield wire). The arc wasn't very bright, or hot, it took several seconds to form a puddle & then the weld was cold.

I tried different settings & ended at E-6 after I switched to 0.30 Innershield. The weld bead wasn't as wide as my comparison welds & the penetration wasn't as good either.

My question is what the voltage settings are corresponding to a letter on the top dial & amperage that corresponds to the wire speed. I do not have a way of testing this, but for 1/8" I think I should be around 18 volts & wire speed to give a hotter arc.

I may be way off base, but it never hurts to ask.

I performed & posted the comparison online at: http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=29514 . My user name is MarkBall2.

I don't want to repeat everything I've done, so if you could read that, you will see what I've tried. The welder works, but I know I don't have the correct settings yet.

Any advice/information you could provide is appreciated.

Thank you,
Mark
Yuma AZ

And the response seems clear enough even I can understand it. I wonder though if 18 volts is the max voltage it puts out, even though the top knob goes to 'H'?

Dear Mr. Mark

Thank you for your inquiry through our website and the opportunity to assist you with your concern. My name is Paul and I am part of the Customer Service Team at the Lincoln Electric Company.

Mr. Mark Ballinger please check all current and voltages with a Voltage & Amperage Meter while Welding. The range for voltage is from letter A thru E is 12 to 18 Volts DC. The amperage range is from 25 to 175 amps.

Wire Feed Speed from 1 to10 as you know and the size of the wire example :.030 & .035 flux cored on DC - negative polarity determines actual amperage needed for penetration to material thickness. The current range is from 25 to 175 amps.


Thank you for choosing Lincoln Electric for your welding needs. We appreciate your continued business so please contact us if you have additional questions.

Sincerely,
Paul
********************************************
Service and Product Information Group
Toll-free (North America) 888-935-3877

[MoonRise]

Mark,

NR211-MP in size 0.035 is listed as 16.5V at 120 amps at 110 ipm WFS suggested top-end. To get more amps you have to go to a different/bigger wire size, like 0.045 NR211-MP.

And the SP175-Plus is rated at 20-21V at 130 amps.

And the voltage knob on the SP175-Plus goes to J.

Voltage knob A-E is usually Lincoln's tapped models.

Re-read my post #77 above. Check the easy things first.

For measurements of voltage and amperage, you need the appropriate meters and have to know how to use them. It's not rocket science or brain surgery, but you do have to know how/where to hook the meters up and have the appropriate meters.

Easiest and safest (for you and the meter!) way to check the amperage would be with a clamp-on DC ammeter around the 'ground' lead (the work lead of the welder). Costs about $100 for decent/capable, a nice Fluke meter costs more than that. Note that -most- clamp-on ammeters are AC only, and a MIG welder is DC so you would need the more expensive/special AC/DC clamp-on ammeter.

But if you don't have or know how to measure the amperage and voltage of the welder (safely, for you AND the meters), I'd say just take it to the tech or repair center and have them check the machine out.

After you check for the easy things, like polarity (the 'long' wire goes to the (+) for Innershield use) and good connections.

And you do have the machine wired correctly to the appropriate plug and the plug is going to a correctly wired 230-240V outlet, right? Again, checking for the easy things before getting into the 'guts' of the machine.

And you don't have any shielding gas running or hooked up/on when you are welding with the Innershield NR211-MP wire, right?

[MarkBall2]

Moon, the wires are attached correctly & no shielding gas is connected. I do have an inductive pickup DC meter for measuring Starter amps & alternator output (starter goes to 600+/- amps DC, alternator one goes to 200+/- amps DC) Both of these just get laid over the cable, either one will work, as the meters swing both directions & center is '0'.

If all I'm checking is voltage, I should be able to clip the multimeter lines to the '+ & -" side of the leads. I haven't done that yet. I don't have anything other than my inductive ammeters to check amps. I'm thinking if the multimeter is connected in parallel, it should read what's going on, without damage to the meter. If not, I'll take it in to make sure nothing gets damaged.

First thing tonight, I'm going to pop the cover & check the wires for signs of arcing/looseness. If I find that, I'll clean it up & reconnect one wire at a time. I'm really sure it's going to be something simple & easily corrected, so that will be the first step. Then a test on a piece of scrap again. If it welds better, then I may not go through the test to determine voltage & amperage.

My multimeter is a cheapy I've had for years. I got it when I won the Plymouth Troubleshooting Contest in high school. It won't handle high amps, but will do up to about 40 volts.

I'll keep ya posted.

[David R]

To measure the volts, be sure to measure WELDING volts. You will need some to read the meter while you are welding. Open circuit voltage won't tell you much. Hooking the meter in parallel in the welder where the cables hook up will be close enough. If something is wrong, it will show. Use clips on the lead instead of the test probes for a better connection to get a true reading.

Be sure to record the settings as well as the voltage reading.

I still think your inductive meter in not accurate enough. It will show amp flow and direction, but,......

David

[MarkBall2]

I decided to open it up again & check for loose connections. Everything is tight & no arcing was seen.

The area where the diodes are located - that aluminum plate has some kind of dialectric gel on it. I stuck my finger in it & it wipes right off & is a bit greasy, so I'm assuming it's a electric gel of some kind.

Here's some pics

1. Diode plate with gel on it

2. PCB all connected & tight

3. Capacitor connection, all tight.

I went ahead & tested this again with intitial setting at E-6, much hotter arc, but it's not as wide as the Hobart. This time I had to be ready to move or I would burn through. Test steel was 1/8" tube to 1/8" strap. It welded fine, just a narrow arc. The wire sputtered once, but never stopped. I was running 0.30 Innershield, same as the last test.

3. Setting E-6, looks better. Not as wide a bead as the Hobart, but looks good anyway with good penetration.

4. Another view of E-6 setting. I did two sides of the tubing to strap & then wire buffed the welds. Not much slag on the welds & it just dusted off when I hit it with the wire wheel.

[MarkBall2]

I then turned the heat up to see if the bead would get wider. Nope, just burned through the 1/8" steel.

I think this thing is going to work just fine. Just have to practice a bit on scrap before welding any projects together.

1. Setting G-7 WAY too Hot. Burned through even with fast travel speed. Narrow bead still.

2. Setting E-7, still too hot & burned through again. Travel speed was pretty quick too.

3. Setting E-6 Tube to tube in the little 'v' formed by the rolled edges of the tube. All these welds looked good on the inside of the tube, good penetration was seen at E-6, could probably go to E-5 for 1/8" steel. The weld will show as about 1/2 the width of the Hobart welds, but still looked like good welds & I could see the difference in the settings.

Everything worked good, so now it's on my new welding cart alongside the Hobart.

[MOpar]

New member here.
Is $500.00 for a verygood condition SP175 Plus a good deal?

[dstevens]

New member here.
Is $500.00 for a verygood condition SP175 Plus a good deal?

A new Lincoln Power Mig 180 is $635 at Lowes locally. It's a re badged SP180 T (which is the current version of the SP175) for the big box store.

[Broccoli1]

A new Lincoln Power Mig 180 is $635 at Lowes locally. It's a re badged SP180 T (which is the current version of the SP175) for the big box store.

The Plus model is a little different as it does have Continuous Voltage selection.

Current "Plus" models are the 140C and 180C.

I think $500.00 is too much though unless it comes with a few extras.

[Joker11]

I think it's a bit much being used, but not outrageous. I am not sure if that model comes equipped for gas or if you have to spend another hundy for the conversion kit!!!!!

[MarkBall2]

That model (mine is a SP175Plus) will accept the gas. It has the solenoid & fitting to plug in the hose in the back.

I agree that $500 is a bit much, but new it was about $600, so use that as a guide. Possibly in the $350-$400 price range might be a bit closer to the average price.

[MarkBall2]

Another old thread drug up from the basement.............

The more I try to weld with the Lincoln welder, the more I think there is something wrong with it. I did put some solid wire in it, hooked up the gas to it & it welded fine, just not like my Hobart.

After reading the mods on how to add capacitors to the 151, I got to wondering if that is why I have such a soft arc on this Lincoln of mine. Making a comparison to the Hobart I have, the Hobart has a hot arc that is about twice the diameter of the Lincoln. To give you a size comparison, imagine the Hobart arc/puddle is approximately 1/2 the size of a key on your keyboard. The Lincoln is about 1/2 that size.

Don't get me wrong, I like welding with it, but I'm really wondering if the cap is bad. The reason I am even thinking this is how the 151 mod made a new machine out of it by adding caps to it. I've also heard through the grapevine, caps "wear out" over time.

That said, I have the part number of the Lincoln capacitor & a price of about $150. The numbers that go with it are listed: 120000 50V, +50/-10%. If I were to replace it, I would have to go through Lincoln unless someone has a better price/location where I could get one this size.

Maybe I'm on the wrong track, I just think I have to adjust the heat settings & wire speed so much higher than the Hobart, that's why I'm thinking I have a worn out capacitor. I figure I could change this part, then test it again. It may be that I'm all wrong too.

[Joker11]

Hey Mark,
Here's a shady method.....

Go buy a new one, swap the capacitors, test yours with the new caps. If it works....keep em. Return a broken unit. hehehehehe

Ok, that's evil. I know. I don't think you should do that. Maybe.

[MarkBall2]

I thought of that too, but I would have to buy it local & I hate screwing with the local supplier.

Walmart...................they are fair game!!!

[Joker11]

walmart, home depot. same crap.

[MarkBall2]

Home Depot has capacitors? I did not know that. I'll check tomorrow on my way home from YPD............

[Joker11]

no, home depot has welders with capacitors in them. buy the same model. man, do I have to explain everything dubious?

[MarkBall2]

Awww, and this comes from the preacher man.

I should just take it in & trade it for a new TiG welder. But that would cost a bit of my hide when the missus finds out.

[Joker11]

Now, I don't believe I have ever preached.
I have ministered. I see two very distinct differences.

However, your point is well taken. I will repent for my sinful thinking and ask for forgiveness.

By the way...work has been slow...know anyone looking for a minister for their wedding? I have references now.

[MarkBall2]

Ministered............... yes I can see the distinction now. I might take this capacitor out & drop by a HVAC shop to see if they have one I could use. Sticks in my mind the A/C compressors use one of similar size.

But then again, I'm not an electrician. I know just enough to either stop or start the heart.

[Sandy]

Are you sure it's not just the difference in arc, ie, crisp vs soft?

[MarkBall2]

Could be. that's why I want to try a different capacitor.

When I set my HH175 on tap 2 with 4 for wirespeed, I get enough heat to glue 1/8" steel together & if I pause long enough, I burn through.

On the Lincoln I need to set it on tap E with wire speed on at least 6-7 for enough heat. It also has such a small arc, it's hard to see the puddle. The weld itself is about 1/2 the width of the Hobart also.

Figure I would try a different cap, to see if it fixes it. If not, that might just be the characteristics of the Lincoln.