Mig like Tig

[ed mac]

i only read 5 or 6 but why would you take
the time ($$) to make some thing look like
what its not i dont get it would you make your tig
look like mig when i worked for Rolls Royce
i would be fired for wasting time
and i would not allow a welder to wast time
on that who worked for me and ill bet it
it would not pass any certs and this should
not be a stickey

[BlindViper]

First of all notice this was done with .023 wire on very thick cold steel. Definately not something normaly done.The penetration differences by using this technique is less but not fatal . There is 100% fusion of the base metals and the bead including the root. Any thing over 1/8" with this small wire would need beveling and multiple passes since you can not make a 1/2" bead without leaving the puddle on small wire. This was to show that this way of welding does achieve penetration with extreme sizes of metal and wire. It must be done properly or it will not be anygood.

Not to be a fng but by looking at your pictures I would say that weld is nothing more then pretty. It appears that you less then 1/16 of penetration. If you consider this "less then fatal". I would hate to be around any thing you weld pretty.

[lugweld]

Ed,
Don't knock a method until you try it. There is a call for asthetics in welding. In fact, there is nothing wrong with this MIG technique when properly done. It does penetrate and fuse properly. As far as taking extra time. It is not time consuming. It just takes extra effort by the welder.

i only read 5 or 6 but why would you take
the time ($$) to make some thing look like
what its not i dont get it would you make your tig
look like mig when i worked for Rolls Royce
i would be fired for wasting time
and i would not allow a welder to wast time
on that who worked for me and ill bet it
it would not pass any certs and this should
not be a stickey

[S obsessed]

What I mean by not fatal is that there is 100% fusion of the root and the toes. There is no need to have deep penetration unless it is single pass on thick metal. This was definately not how I would have joined these components. I would have used .035 with beveled edges and a root pass along with a cap which would have been the "pretty" one. That would have given me the correct amount of weld to join the larger pieces. I was mearly showing an extreme that you can get 100% fusion with this method, NO cold lap or lack of fusion with the root when performed correctly. It was definately fatal in this situation but using this technique in the correct way stated earlier in this post it definately would have not been fatal. Say you weld 2 3" plates together with a 30 degree bevel, it is not necessary to have deep penetration with each stringer but only to have 100% fusion on all aspects. That is what this method is for. Simply a nice appearance which can be the only pass with the right settings and wire size or a cap for multiple passes. It does take practice. My beads are not nearly as consistant as some others but I do know they are fused.

[S obsessed]

In all actuality this does not look like tig. No matter how hard I would possibly try I don't believe I could make my tig welds look like my "mig like tig" welds. I get a nice dime stack with tig but it is definately not same as any of these I have seen. Nor have I seen any other tig welds like these. Maybe pics look similar but in person they are totally different. I think this whole thing should be "stack o dimes mig" (or something similar) just to clear the confusion. I never have tried to make my mig look like tig just give it a nice boost, not boring flat beads. It stands out and people will always notice it over regular stringer beads ( which I also use, not saying they are not cool).

[dnegative]

But the common person will assume they were done with a TIG (and will assume that it is a better weld)

[lugweld]

A properly done Mig weld is as strong as any properly done tig weld. If it isn't, then it wasn't properly done.

[ZTFab]

But the common person will assume they were done with a TIG (and will assume that it is a better weld)

A "common" person won't even know what TIG or MIG means. They only know that it was welded.

[maarty]

I know tig welds can be really pretty; with the ripples and all, but that isn't the only way to make tig beads look. If the heat and travel speed are perfect the rod can be laid in at the same speed as rate of travel, and without zig zagging. The resulting beads look smooth.
I really don't know what the motivation might be to make a mig weld look like a rippled tip weld. When ever possible with mig, and if the thickness allows it, a spray arc should be used without any whipping. On lighter material a globular transfer arc should be used. Only on the lightest material should a short circuiting arc be used.
Whipping should be avoided. Again, why make a mig weld look rippled? A smooth mig weld with equal legs and flat surface is the mark of a pro.

[ed mac]

Ed,
Don't knock a method until you try it. There is a call for asthetics in welding. In fact, there is nothing wrong with this MIG technique when properly done. It does penetrate and fuse properly. As far as taking extra time. It is not time consuming. It just takes extra effort by the welder.

im not knocking it i think it great but
i dont think its worth being a stickey

[Plasma-Head]

I cant lie, this is the thread that made me sign up for this forum.
I love mig/flux core welding and have spend most of my welding life dumping wire.
Let me know what you guys think of these, I ran them quick at work on some scrap diamond plate while the boss was on lunch
If I get motivated today i'll go run a tig bead or 2 for comparison.

19ish volts, 230-250 wire feed speed, 75/25 Ar/Co2 gas and a .035 wire being spit out of a millermatic 251 was the weapon of choice.

[S obsessed]

Looks nice plasma head but it does look a little cold. the toes don't appear to be tied in. looking at the end of the weld it makes me think you were running hot with machine but did a whipping motion with the gun. That has the potential of just laying weld on top of the plate. this is just how it appears to me. It may just be decieving, not knocking the weld, it is very consistent looking.

[ZTFab]

+1 on that.... His work is the cat meow... I'm new also and just did the wiring in my garage yesterday . I finally get to use my 180c... I'm a former competitive rifle shooter but got back into being a gearhead ... More time at home with my family even if I am in the garage.. ZT.... Can we more of your work with the smaller Mig's ??? Mine is not a 110v but I would really like to know the limits of my 180c.

Thanks pipehack.....

Here is a piece I welded today for a race car, it's the fuel filler neck.

The plate it is welded to is 11ga CRS. I used my Lincoln SP135Plus 110v MIG with .023" ER70S-6 wire, voltage setting "F" and Wire Speed "5".

[Powerstroked]

Wow, nice work!

[pipehack]

Damn!!!!!!!! I'm speechless! Awesome!

[ZTFab]

.... A smooth mig weld with equal legs and flat surface is the mark of a pro.

That is your opinion and not a fact.

[revhard]

"That is your opinion and not a fact. "

Couldn't agree more.
ZTFab does some amazing welds. The MIG is especially nice. Not easy to do.
I have seen a few pass penetration tests with it, but not many. I have done that technique myself on alot of 14ga buildings in the oil and gas days. Works great.
I have also done smooth welds as mentioned. There is more than one way to skin a cat.

[loudnproud]

"That is your opinion and not a fact. "

Couldn't agree more.
ZTFab does some amazing welds. The MIG is especially nice. Not easy to do.
I have seen a few pass penetration tests with it, but not many. I have done that technique myself on alot of 14ga buildings in the oil and gas days. Works great.
I have also done smooth welds as mentioned. There is more than one way to skin a cat.

i was taught this technique in school of using a cursive L or little e type manipulation along with about 15 other students... we all passed the bend test on 3/8 plate 2g open root, 2 fill pass and 3 pass cap. some were more "pretty" than others but everyone used this type of manipulation. keep in mind all of us had about 8 hours of ever touching a mig gun in our lives before testing.

i also did this on a 8" sch 80 pipe 2g position, i think 70degree groove angle. 4 strap bend test. open root, 2 fill layers and 3 bead cap all with this technique except the root of course. this was my 3rd week ever mig welding and everyone passed. you have to be careful not to go to far back in the puddle. in my opinion it's a sound technique even when not executed perfectly. I've seen some other students in class really butcher it and still pass the bend test with no discontinuities..

[David R]

That filler neck is beautiful. I doubt it will fall apart either

David

[maarty]

The only reason to run a whipping pass with a mig torch is to control too high a heat output. A truly skilled welder sets the amps as high as possible and runs a super smooth bead without all those "tig like" ripples.

What the ripples in these photos disguise is the inability to run a smooth and steady bead.

[ZTFab]

The only reason to run a whipping pass with a mig torch is to control too high a heat output. A truly skilled welder sets the amps as high as possible and runs a super smooth bead without all those "tig like" ripples.

What the ripples in these photos disguise is the inability to run a smooth and steady bead.

Wow...now your just arguing for the sake of arguing. Again, you are only stating your opinion of what makes a skilled welder. I say that a skilled welder can do both methods.

There are many different techniques that will provide sound welds that will pass inspection.

Since you obviously haven't read this whole thread, here is a post I made earlier about this...

Here are some more sample pieces that I did in the shop tonight....BUT, I did these with a different technique to show that my normal methods are not the only way to weld.

I appreciate all of the positive comments about my welding, however my techniques are definitely not the only way to get things done.

This is .188" CRS and set as an open corner joint. .030" ER70S-6 wire, C25 gas on my Lincoln PowerMIG 200.

These are a little rough since I don't really ever use this technique.

[duaneb55]

Yeah. OK. A little rough.

Seriously, who'd you have run that bead for you Paul?

[ZTFab]

Yeah. OK. A little rough.

Seriously, who'd you have run that bead for you Paul?

I hired a "professional" welder to do it for me since I am apparently not one.

[lugweld]

Maarty,

A true "professional" knows that his way isn't the only way. Well, maybe a secure "professional" that is, or maybe a broadly experienced one. Dime stacking is just as acceptable in MIG welding as it is in anyother form. The local welding school teaches a weave in MIG...something I don't prefer...but they claim it improves the tieing in at the toes. I went to interview once for a job (didn't get it because I wasn't born in an certain asian country...I would have been the only one on the crew that wasn't) that REQUIRED their welds to look just exactly like ZTFfabs. This company manufactured many of the commercial, tractor-trailer carhauler bodies.

[duaneb55]

I hired a "professional" welder to do it for me since I am apparently not one.

I figured as much. Thanks for fessin' up.