So, I'm undertaking what might be a lot of money coming my way.. Dude has a 65 mustang that needs pretty much the entire floor replaced. I'm headed over tomorrow to start working on taking out the old floor and might get started. I'll post some pics tomorrow evening. Just wondering if anyone had any tips or advice? I've only done one floor pan before but it was on a modern cheap car and the guy didn't care about aesthetics at all, it was just "get it done, it's getting covered with carpet anyway" but on a classic mustang...I really want to make it as perfect as possible. Also, he has plenty more work to be done on other parts of the car, so if I impress him here...might be the beginning of a great thing for both of us. thanks in advance for any comments. cheers.
Swifty
Buy new floor pans lay inside old ones give yourself 1/2 inch of overlap. Old man has 65 mustang with Flintstone floors. I fixed them. 110v machine take your time. Hammer is your friend. Tack, hit, tack, hit. Work the metal around and take breaks.Any severe access on bottom remove with torch or grinder. Make it all lap welds as that old car has more rust then Kellogg got corn flacks.
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Im currently doing a trunk pan in a 71 firebird formula resto....and its all butt welds that have to be finish ground on the inside of trunk and under neath the car because of showing....no laps it must be like it was never replaced. Ive been working on the fuel tank support brackets filling all the holes from drilling spot welds out and when removing them some of the metal ripped near edges so im having to build up and square off the edges so they look factory. Lap it if you want but thats not how to do it. It needs to be perfect or why do it at all? ESPECIALLY on a classic..attention to detail is what wins.if you lap weld then technically the floor will be the metal thickness higher than its supposed to be... just my opinion....
Yeah classic cars guys who are serious demand perfection. You can quickly destroy the value of a classic car if you don't do this right. It's a really good way to make bad blood between you and a customer and get a reputation as a hack. Do it right and you'll get more customers by word of mouth.
the guys who want it cheap and fast are kidding themselves. Guys who know what is what know that do do this right, it's often not cheap or fast.
Depending on how bad this is, I'd be really tempted to say frame off restoration if he's going to be serious about this. That lets you get where you need to be without all the interruptions. Also he'll need to do that to do the paint right anyways. Blast it so you know what is good and what isn't, then go from there.
If fit up has to be perfect for a show quality job, keep a few things in mind. Rough out the hole, but make sure you are undersized. That will let you fit your patch and mark the exact location for the final cuts. Then remember you can always make the hole bigger, but making it smaller can be a PITA. I've seen plenty of guys doing body patches who end up with gaps the size of a zip wheel because they cut on the wrong side of the line or decided to just say "F it, let's just git ur done" and cut thru both pieces at once. Then they get to figure out how to span the gap and not make a giant mess, usually where you can't back up the weld with a piece of copper for support.
My old boss learned that lesson the hard way when we did a new floor for the Mack one winter. I was "taking too long" and was being "too precise", so he would show me how it's "done". We got to spend the next few hours trying to fix his mess and in the end he wasn't happy with it and I just cut it all back out and refabbed the whole section I'd made all over again, just bigger, to fix the mess he made. He left me alone after that and let me fit the way I wanted while he just welded up my work, complaining if I got the joint just a hair too wide....
the guys who want it cheap and fast are kidding themselves. Guys who know what is what know that do do this right, it's often not cheap or fast.
Depending on how bad this is, I'd be really tempted to say frame off restoration if he's going to be serious about this. That lets you get where you need to be without all the interruptions. Also he'll need to do that to do the paint right anyways. Blast it so you know what is good and what isn't, then go from there.
If fit up has to be perfect for a show quality job, keep a few things in mind. Rough out the hole, but make sure you are undersized. That will let you fit your patch and mark the exact location for the final cuts. Then remember you can always make the hole bigger, but making it smaller can be a PITA. I've seen plenty of guys doing body patches who end up with gaps the size of a zip wheel because they cut on the wrong side of the line or decided to just say "F it, let's just git ur done" and cut thru both pieces at once. Then they get to figure out how to span the gap and not make a giant mess, usually where you can't back up the weld with a piece of copper for support.
My old boss learned that lesson the hard way when we did a new floor for the Mack one winter. I was "taking too long" and was being "too precise", so he would show me how it's "done". We got to spend the next few hours trying to fix his mess and in the end he wasn't happy with it and I just cut it all back out and refabbed the whole section I'd made all over again, just bigger, to fix the mess he made. He left me alone after that and let me fit the way I wanted while he just welded up my work, complaining if I got the joint just a hair too wide....
We got real lucky the firebirds only rust is the trunk and lower rear quarters...everything else is great I had to chase a little surface rust with scotchbrite on the underside of the floors. If any one wants to look....search 1970 challenger panther pink bruce hershberger. Theres an article by hemmings muscle machines. The guy who did that 1 of 5 car is my uncle here in alaska. That car is a show king...so far the people who own this formula have invested 41000 into the resto....it may cost another 10 but when we showed them the progress they seen and understood that the money pays for details. When someone drops that kinda cash they CANNOT be disappointed in any way or like others said your rep is done for. We got two days into removing someone elses hack repair and roughing the new panel. Take your time bud.
Didn't get out there today. going first thing in the morning. Hmmmm...Burpee, I'll be the first to admit I'm not a huge car guy. I mean.. I love old cars as much as the next guy, but I'm by no means a mechanic or hot rod enthusiast. I had no idea. Dang. I'll be more careful. Thanks for the heads up. And this isn't some guy with tons of money trying to make a show car, just a guy with a rusted out 65 mustang he bought for like 2500, trying to get it drivable by summer time. That being said, I'm going to do it as right as possible but I'm also aware of him being more of the "wanting it done fast and cheap" kind of guy... it's a budget build, yeah? Anyway, I'll post pics once I get into it tomorrow. thanks again, everyone!
As far as a right way and a wrong way its up to the guy footing the bill. Be sure to get all the paint off where you want to weld as this will help with burnthrough. For a car that's to be driven just overlap and small stitch welds. Cover seam top and bottom with a good seam sealer. Check out a company like Eastwood for seam sealer and the P.O.R. coatings.
If this is a coupe, weld a few inches at a time, spread it out, if not, it will likely 'oil can' on you. If it's a convert., get inside ,close the doors, put the roof up, as you'll have less chance of body twist. Even though the converts have a different sub frame, they will twist. This is one of our main sources of work for over 30 years.
I got the passenger side floor cut out yesterday, he was going to coat the exposed frame with POR and I'm headed back in a little bit to weld in the pan I've cut to size. I asked him what his preference was and how perfect he wanted it to be. He said he just wants it drivable and doesn't want to put his feet through the floor. so, leaving myself a little bit of overlap. the worst part of yesterday was that after 50 years the floor had pretty much fused itself to the framework. drilling out spotwelds did NOTHING. had to pretty much grind the last bits of the floor off of the framework. but, got everything cut in with just two small gaps that will be no problem to fill. Leaving the seat risers and everything in back, the only problem was the front floor boards. Lucky! I really expected it to be a lot worse after I looked at it with the seats in. now that they're out it's really not that bad, though. really didn't need to take out that much of the front , either, but I figured it'll look better with most of a new floor pan in the bottom instead of just one tiny little patch.
View attachment driverbefore.jpg View attachment driveroldpatch.jpg View attachment passbefore.jpg View attachment passfitup.jpg View attachment passhole.jpg
View attachment driverbefore.jpg View attachment driveroldpatch.jpg View attachment passbefore.jpg View attachment passfitup.jpg View attachment passhole.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Absetzzange-blech.jpg
Anyone tried this type of joint?---Meltedmetal
Anyone tried this type of joint?---Meltedmetal
On thing with lap welds is that you almost always leave a small space that will trap dirt and water. Since most guys weld from the inside of the car, that open joint is underneath and exposed to all the dirt salt and road grime as well as water. Using those tools to do an offset is an easy way to help deal with thin sheet, but you are trading ease of welding with the almost guarantee you will have worse rot later. ( learned this lesson the hard way years ago as a teenager when I "fixed" my 1st car...)
Couple local body guys don't weld patches anymore, haven't for many years.
The fancy auto body epoxy that comes in a double tube and uses a special $100 two sided caulking type gun works excellent on the lapped areas.
They use an air flanger tool to quickly flange the panel and then epoxy it up.
The fancy auto body epoxy that comes in a double tube and uses a special $100 two sided caulking type gun works excellent on the lapped areas.
They use an air flanger tool to quickly flange the panel and then epoxy it up.
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