Mig is a wire fed process that uses an Inert (hence the I) gas to shield the wire, like argon. Sometimes the gas is ert (or active) like co2, and thus you might hear the term MAG in place of MIG (for metal Active gas), but mostly MIG is used for simplicity. Folks also often refer to flux core as mig, but it really is not. Flux core is just wire with a flux in the middle that shields the puddle when it burns. All these methods (an some other processes) are performed in pretty much the same way. You feed a wire from a machine, through a big, thick hose to a gun that squirts it onto the thing you want to weld. The wire is electrified and a circuit is completed at the weld (somehow). The "somehow" differs based on gas, amount of current and other variables, but that's not so important when learning the basics. In fact, I have just recently gained a better understanding of this stuff after welding for a pretty long time, at least in dog years.

Tig, on the other hand, has an electrode, but the electrode doesnt get used up in the process of welding. It's much more like a gas torch (oxy/ace) in the way you weld. You heat the metal with a (sometimes) very precise plasma-like flame and add filler in the form of a rod using the other hand. Often, you use real-time amp adjustments to control the heat for better results. Tig, as a process, can weld just about anything short of peanut butter (or in your case, maybe, Vegemite), but it's a bit harder to learn, requires some pretty good hand-eye coordination, and is a good bit more expensive to do if you truly intend to weld everything under the sun. Mig isnt as hard as stick.

DC is less dangerous, pretty much always, so dc tig, stick, mig are all less dangerous than ac anything.

The main difference I see between mig and tig is that in mig (loosley defined), the wire IS the electrode and the filler. In tig the electrode is NOT the filler, unless you do something really wrong. Other important differences that you don't exactly see: Tig can be either ac or dc, mig is pretty much dc, as far as I know. Tig uses constant current (CC), where mig uses constant voltage (CV). I only understand the very basics of this, so if someone wants to add something about that....

When you get down to the basics, the definition of each welding process is mostly determined by a particular combination of heat, filler type and method for shielding from the atmosphere. In other words, all the different processes are usually described based on each one's particular methods used to get the heat, add the filler, or shield from the atmosphere. There are probably some exception to this, but I can't think of any right off.

You shouldnt feel left behind by using stick. It's still a very viable method for many things and in some cases the best method. There is a good reason that almost every welder on the market (except wire fed only) have stick mode. It's not for backwards compatibility with old weldors. It's because it's still a preferred method for lots of stuff. One thing i really like about stick, is that if you drop a box of sticks, nothing happens. If you drop a roll of wire, all hell breaks loose.

 

Smithboy pretty much summed up the differences. A lot of it comes down to what you want to use it for.

A lot of people are using MIG now because it is pretty easy to learn and works for a pretty wide range of things. The disadvantage can be that you are always adding filler to the puddle due to the nature of the wire feed welder. Fusion welding just isn't a possibility.

TIG gives you a lot more precision, but almost too much precision if you are welding something big - like putting a loader bucket together or something. That is the other reason most TIG welders have a stick mode - so that you can lay down a big heavy bead in some situations.

Check out this link from the Miller site: http://millerwelds.com/products/basics_hints/

The chart compares the basics of each type of welding and the links to the left give you more things to consider when selecting a process or welder.

 

Wow, thanks for all that - I've printed it all out and had a good look at the miller site.
I think it's time I added a MIG to my toy collection.
And maybe a plasma cutter - the neighbours especially might appreciate it.
Scott

 

I like stick hehe but mig is faster and more efficent. Yet there are and always will be jobs that mig just doesnt cut it. TIg now theres the cadillac of welding processes

 

In terms of quality, TIG is the cadillac of processes. It allows a skillful weldor to do amazing things. However, the productivity just isn't there. I'd TIG for quality, MIG for productivity, FC for field repairs and outdoor work and stick for nothin'. That's only because it's a process I've never been fond of. It provides excellent penetration and works well in the field for repairs where one might otherwise use flux-core. It's also useful in that realm when the weldor doesn't want to or can't haul a feeder around.

 

Yes, but tig is a cadillac, I aint never seen my late friend Dale Earnhardt drivin a caddy though. Dale drove something fast, so if he was a welder, hed weld with mig. As far as stick goes, stick can get deeper penetration, and can weld on some incrediably dirty crap and still make a very storng weld. Wire cant do that. And as far as Im aware only stick can weld underwater...disclaimer: underwater welding is dangerous, and does not use the same exact equipment as standard stick welding equipement. Do not try this at home. However, also stick i sthe cheapest to get started iwth. Not the easiest...thats mig and fluxcore. Stick takes a lot of time, talent and skill. Once you master stick you rule the world. Well atleast I rule my own lil world lol. I do think highly of those who really have mastery of the TIG thogh. I knew a guy who made small figurines with tig just by melting rod and building it up. I dint quite beleive itwas possible, or that I was imagining it the way he meant it...well I watched him.. Ill never be that good, but it was simply amazing. My only regret is I dint get to work with him long enough to learn much of what he had to offer. But hey it happens

 

I have a Tig (Lincoln Precision Tig 185), but I bought it for aluminum welding. If it hadn't been for that, I would still be using my AC stick welder for everything else I do. Don't feel left out, keep using that stick for projects, and enjoy it. It's paid for, it's earned it's keep. Unless you have a need, or a way for the 'fancy' machines to pay for themselves, why get one? (Unless you have a lot of 'toy money', and if that's the case, a lot of us on here aren't proud. <grin>)

Mark

 

TXRedneck, you make good points about underwater welding and the cost of the welder, but I'd have to challenge your contention that stick will get deeper penetration and handle dirtier metal than flux-core. They're both (usually) DCEN which is why they give excellent penetration, but I don't see how stick would penetrate better than FC at a given current. As for handling dirtier steel, I'm pretty sure there are FC electrodes with just as much deoxidizers as stick electrodes. If you can give an example of a stick electrode that's useful for dirty steel, I'll see if I can come up with a comparable FC electrode.

I'm not arguing that stick isn't useful, it is. My point is that it's a process that I don't use and also one that I shouldn't need to use because I believe that FC should work just as well for a given application. If I am mistaken in that belief, than I want to correct my perception.

 

Heath, the reason I site for stick getting deeper penetration, and remember this is coming from a guy who does this as a profession and has the tools, and testing equipment to prove the tests. Anyway, with the stick you can push the rod into the puddle and will actualy give you a deeper penetration. Its true you can do this with wire too...but wont get quite as deep as stick. The arguement can be made about fit up. But sometimes you have no control of fitup, your making repairs ect or your the welder and you dint fit the parts you now have to weld. Anyway, it is a small point, that is the penetraiton differnce is minor, but it can make a differnce in certain limited situations.

 

It's apparent that you're an experienced stick welder. You mention you have the tools and the testing equipment to prove the tests. From this statement, I can assume that you've used and tested FC relative to stick and this is how you come to your conclusion? Bear in mind that I'm not trying to be combative, just that nothing that I've read supports (or refutes) your contention and I have no experience in the matter.

Speaking of pushing the electrode into the puddle, why is it that I've never read about anyone doing SAW (submerged arc welding) on any of the forums?

 

Heath, yes I am an experience mig, tig, stick and oxy fuel welder/brazer and I can sweat copper pipe. When I did my testing as part of a welding inspection course work I did I ran tests which included solid wire, flux cored wire, and shielded metal arc welding. All these tests were done in various positions, ie flat, vertical up, vertical down, overhead, horizontal. They were done with 1/8", 1/4", and 3/8" plates. Speaking of the matter of pushing the electrode into the puddle, the reason you have never read about anyone doing SAW on any of the forums is simple...cause they prolly aint. Neither have I. I have been shown the equipment, but SAW is not the same thing as SMAW. SMAW is stick welding. SAW is a wire feed welding process where there is a flux that is deposited ontop of the arc. The arc thereby is "submerged" under the flux. This is an extremely productive process, however, has limitations on postitions. To my best knowledge it is limited to the flat and horizontal. The flat would be groove and fillet. The horizontal would be fillet only. The benefits of the SAW process are include deep penetration, extreemly high travel speeds, high depostion rates, minizes error with machine welding, and easy reproducibility because once you get the machien set you can make the same parts over and over. There is a handheld version of the SAW but aside from pictures Ive never heard of or seen it used. This is something used in manufacturing, but again I have never used it and I doubt many on these forums have. There may be a few. But the percentage will be low. Now, if you were really asking why you have never heard of pushing the rod into the puddle. Well hmm, This is something used to obtain 100% for a root weld on either plate or pipe. I only know of one thread on one particular forum that details this. A friend of mine was trying to pass his vertical up (3G) on 1/2" plate and was seeking advice for getting his 100% penetration. I made the first suggestion of the pushing the rod in and getting the water sound. There were several others from pile buck's to pipeliners who seconded my suggestion and gave their own input on the sound it made how how to get it just right for 100% penetration. For 100% penetration you must push the rod. Dig control helps with this a lot. Takes some practice but you can learn it. Does this help to clear up the discrepencies?

 

halbritt,you have a good grasp of the sit. Stick is used /popular because its handiest. No feeder, no different wire types-easier.I do believe wire gets good pen tho-

 

Personally, after having my Lincoln Precision TIG 185 for a month, I've only touched the mig once, and that was doing an akword, out of position weld, that had I not been lazy, I could have moved the object to get the tig in there. I don't have the holder, but have ordered a stick holder for the TIG machine.


As for plasma, Get one! They are awesome. I have the Lincoln Pro-Cut 55, and love it. It is rated to 3/4", but I have cut 1" plate with it.

 

Think I'll stick with the stick for the time being. Good to hear that it's still valid. I probably should concentrate on getting my skills up to speed rather than buying another machine.
The plasma cutter was a passing fancy - I probably don't cut enough to justify the purchase. What do they cost, by the way?
Scott

 

scott, they cost expensive. lol I prefer oxy fuel. I use propane whenever I am payin for it mostly. But yeah plasma is real sweet, but everything I can do wiht plasma I can also do with a grinder & cut off or the torch. But if the tool fairy were to leave me a new plasma I wouldnt give it back..heck that darn tool fairy would get her wings shot off if she ever dared to come take it back:laugh:

 

Think I'll stick with the stick for the time being. Good to hear that it's still valid.

It would be a rare circumstance where one tool/machine was invalidated by another one or a new one. HA. It's just adds to the line up. In fact, already having a stick would allow you to choose a more limited mig and still have broad range of tasks put on your plate.

I have a 175 class mig and there are many times it just plain don't cut it. I have to figure out different ways of doing the old things I did with my stick. I am currently scheming for a larger mig but will always miss the versatility of the stick.

If I ever see a buzz box setting around for pennies-----------it's gonna be mine.

 

Sandy, do like im plannning....get yourself a bobus catus like ive got, then get a voltage sensing wire feeder. Then the you have the best of both worlds, plus you can take it anywhere you want to be lol. Course in this situation you prolly wont be using the stick much cause you wont need to...but if you got a hankerin for rodin...its just a flip of a switch!

 

oh and for the record, what im planning is to get an old SA 200 from this ole boy in East Tex, then I gonna use the SA 200 for my stick needs...have the bobus for wire stuff

 

Sandy, do like im plannning....get yourself a bobus catus like ive got,

Well, how do I say this--------------------------I had a bobcat 225 (hangs head) and sold it. :blush2: Early 80's vintage.

I dunno, I was tired of hauling out the long heavy leads out for one inch jobs, moving the thing around, the engine noise, dead batteries, people always wanting freebies, bla bla bla.

That's all crap now. Actually I got caught up in the glossy brochures for mig machines and convinced myself somehow that a mid priced machine would build any project all by itself, all I had to do was squeeze the trigger. Now I can see the benefit of both. I do like the mig tho.

Could be I just have too long a wish list. :waving:

 

Sandy, I remember when I was a young welder. I could stick weld, but dint know beans about mig. I was lured in by the shiny brochures too. However, there was a sales man that slapped this young pup silly. He said Dammit boy your too young to get lazy and live life with a silver spoon.....no actually he dint say that, what he did say was that mig wasnt worth my time for what I was doing. He said, its my business. But he said for an at home welding machien I was better off with stick. He said its true mig will allow you to get thinner stuff welded. So if I wanted to do body work, best to get a lil mig. But the 200 amp migs just werent my best value. He said get a stick welder. Cause you will spend most of your time setting up for the weld, cutting and doing all that. The acutal welding will be the least of my time. And the diffence in welding wiht the wire or the rod will be minimal. He pointed out too taht if I cant weld with a stinger, I could prolly learn to weld with mig but I shoulkdnt be allowed to build a trailer in his own opinion. He was an older guy and from the old school. I think whereever that school was, after readning enough from Sandy he attended that same school But I was struck by what this fella had to say. Coming from a salesman it seemed kinda odd. Although stick costs isnt as efficent as mig, still the cost of hte machien is a lot differnt for equal sized machines. And Ive noticed a lot of folks spend more money with their wire rigs then I do because of their contact tips and such. I just go threw rods. At my job Ive been on the same contact tip for over a month and weld all day long, usually 10 or more hours a day. Anyway, thats just me and thats just how I do it and I agree the mig sure is a lot more convient....but then I find the stick better in dirty conditions too

 

I feel like I have come full circle. I started with a O/A and a Airco stick welder, eventually traded the Airco. Then went to a 110 v century powermate mig/wirefeeder-a great machine especially with flux core, used it for small repairs. Then got a Panasonic Gunslinger 260 Mig-much more welder than I need, though couldn't pass it up for $600.

Later found I couldn't do without stick, so purchased an old 295 amp twentieth century stick, $25. Replaced the Powermate with a 7 pound 80amp Thermoarc inverter stick/tig and a 150amp Zena underhood welder. Together both welders don't weigh half as much as the powermate which usually needed a generator( lincoln powerarc4000).

Only use mig when I am concerned about spatter and speed. Couldn't imagine building a 80 feet of guard rail without a mig. Also, those welds are pretty expensive to be grinding away.

With stick I simply drag welding lead around inside shop and outside without concern for wind, length of leads, gas, etc. Stick welding has its advantages, especially with the size of the inverters. I think it is an economical process if detailed cleanup is not invloved.

 

Well, If I may put my 2 cents in this....
In my area of the industry....(Rig Chasing, OIL Field, Heavy Fabrication) I have found that :
1) on Heavy Metal Fabrications I use 5p (6010) and 7018 caps....5p plus, works well on dirty crap!
Your penetration is determined by the rod. (no pun intended)
2) But.......I run 5/64 wire in that 12vs extreme on My TrailBlazer Pro 350D and WOW!- 'Git down with it!'
One should always remember that to succesfully weld pipe thats going to hold pressure...'don't weld in the puddle' gouge and fill, gouge and fill......LOL

 

Stick is great for thick steel
Mig is great for thin steel
Tig is great for exotic materials
Oxy is great when you'd like to bend/cut/braze things

Pick what you want to do, then pick something that does it well.

-David

I'm feeling left behind.
I've had my stick welder for 15 years or so. I just do stuff around the house - it's amazing how many things you can find to do with a welder.
15 years ago everybody I knew who did a bit of welding used a stick welder, probably because Migs/Tigs were expensive and only trademen used them.
Now, everyone has a Mig or a Tig, largely because China has discovered capitalism and is churning out affordable welders.
Some questions:
1. What's the difference between Mig and Tig?
2. What can they do that stick welders can't?
3. How hard is it to learn Mig/Tig (bearing in mind I can't find any welding courses in Sydney so I'll be teaching myself)?
4. Are Migs/Tigs more dangerous than stick welders?

 

you can mig thick steel change gas to argon 95% oxy 5%
27 V .035 wire and adjust wire speed till it's not splattering
for deep grove joint turn up wire to get to the root
chuck

 

I would think that C5 or C10 would work better for getting more heat into the weld using spray arc. Anyone have any experience with this?