Police officer came to my shop today

[DSW]

No he didn't arrest me....


















.. instead he dropped of an anvil! He wouldn't take anything for it either. Just wants it to go to someone who will use it.

A local police officer I took a class night school machining class with a few years back at the local tech school has been promising to drop by and give me the old anvil that came out of his fathers welding shop that they saved when his dad passed away years ago. Every time I see him his 1st words out of his mouth are. " I haven't forgotten you. Don't buy an anvil, I'll get the one I promised to you..." Anyways since I've been asked to demo at the Grange fair, I politely made reference that it would be nice to have a bigger anvil to do the demo with. Well he shows up today after work with this one.

No distinct marks that I could see looking it over quickly this evening when he dropped it off. I'm guessing it's about 200 lbs or so, based on the fact it took 2 of us to unload it, and comparing it to my 130 lb one when I moved it to take picts after he left. 26" in length, 12" high, 5" wide face. I'll bring the scale with me tomorrow and actually weigh it.

I've got it posted on a blacksmithing site, and so far the thought is it was made by Badger. No date or other information yet. I'll keep you posted.

[richey]

That's a great looking tool.Congrats

[7A749]

Nice piece Doug. Looks cast. Any sign of a tool steel top plate? I can't see one and don't know jack about anvils other than what Dave Boyer kindly shared with me regarding mine before he passed away some years back.

Might have to swing by the precinct (or whatever yous guys out East call it) and treat them to some quality pizza or something. Or hit the officer up after shift one night and buy him a few rounds or provide him with a bottle of what he likes best

Seems Jack Daniels speaks everyone's language

Take that horrible green paint off it tho!

[DSW]

I can't see any sign of a tool steel face, but from what I just read, if it is a Badger, it's cast with a tool steel face, similar to how Fishers were done. That would make sense, because it looks an awful lot like the Fisher anvils I've seen that are cast with tool steel tops. The holes in the waist and what looks like a weld line made me think forged at 1st.

I told him he can borrow any of my contracting tools he needs for either working on his place, or that of family members ( apparently he's been busy fixing things at his moms place.) I told him if he needs help, all he has to do is ask. I owe him big time. When I mentioned some of the tools I have, he keyed right in on the tile saw. Apparently his fiance ( who is also an officer in the same township and yes I made the obligatory joke asking if he's marrying her because she's got her own handcuffs... ) has tile in a bath planned. I told him just to let me know and I'd help him all I can.

[7A749]

I can't see any sign of a tool steel face, but from what I just read, if it is a Badger, it's cast with a tool steel face, similar to how Fishers were done. That would make sense, because it looks an awful lot like the Fisher anvils I've seen that are cast with tool steel tops. The holes in the waist and what looks like a weld line made me think forged at 1st.

I told him he can borrow any of my contracting tools he needs for either working on his place, or that of family members ( apparently he's been busy fixing things at his moms place.) I told him if he needs help, all he has to do is ask. I owe him big time. When I mentioned some of the tools I have, he keyed right in on the tile saw. Apparently his fiance ( who is also an officer in the same township and yes I made the obligatory joke asking if he's marrying her because she's got her own handcuffs... ) has tile in a bath planned. I told him just to let me know and I'd help him all I can.

Whatever the case, I know you'll make it right with him.

Awfully nice to do that for you. If you're going to lend him some tools, then buy yourself a bottle of Jack and celebrate

Usually, at least from what limited experience I have, you can see the weld line where they attached the face if you look sharp. I guess Hay Budden's original anvils had an entire tool steel upper. Mine is at least 100 years old, prolly older from what Dave told me when I sent him some pix of it. It has the tool steel upper. I've seen other HB anvils with a much thinner welded face plate, prolly like 3/8 or a little less. It weighs out at around 150.

I hit the body with some satin clear lacquer every couple years or so to keep the rust off it. Face isn't the greatest, but it's one of the Cadillacs as far as anvils are concerned. If I was independently wealthy, I would find an expert to clean the face up. Dave told me to just take a belt sander to it and wasn't kidding. May do that. The face on yours looks pretty good. Better than many I've seen.

You got a sweet anvil there Doug. Excellent piece!

[BD1]

Awesome, some people really know how to make others feel really good.

As for not being arrested, if you were it could be for impersonating a welder !

[Slob]

Quite certain I could tear that up with my bare hands...

Nice tool; always handy. Mine is rail track and indispensable in the shop.

[DSW]

The guy I'm doing the demo for has offered to sell me either his spare 250 lb Fisher or a 250 lb Trenton ( he's also got a similar weight Hay Budden, but it's not in as good shape) . I've been holding off waiting to see what my friend brought over. Cast anvils like Fishers are super quiet, but the chunky horns make doing rings and some bending operations a bit more difficult. ( I'm ashamed to admit I didn't strike the anvil tonight because I was in a rush to go deal with visiting family) I also love the lines of the Trenton's with their long slender looks. The cast ones seem a bit clunky. I may see what he wants for the Trenton. Even tough it's not a lot bigger, having a thinner horn might be an advantage at times. We'll see how much expendable cash I spend at the ABANA conference in Delaware Thursday. I'm hoping Salt Fork brings some of their floor cones and swage blocks out to sell, so I can save on shipping costs. I'm sure there will be plenty of other items to drool over there...

[12V71]

My only interaction with cops while welding was air arcing on a dozer at 6am in a residential area. OOPS!

[dcoffmanjr]

My only interaction with cops while welding was air arcing on a dozer at 6am in a residential area. OOPS!

Would have loved to have been there for that. Lol cop probably had no idea what was going on.

[DanD78]

My only interaction with cops while welding was air arcing on a dozer at 6am in a residential area. OOPS!

I did a portable railing job for a contractor one night aroud 9:00 p.m.. Ended up with the cops, Fire dept and power company. Someone driving by thought there were power lines down.

Very nice anvil. It's nice he thought of you to give it a good home.

Dan D.

[k45]

Ended up with the cops, Fire dept and power company. Someone driving by thought there were power lines down..

That's funny!

DSW, great deal! Just don't drop it on your toe!

[whtbaron]

Nice anvil, and I kind of like the green paint. I think it gives it a nice antique look. I also have my grandfather's anvil that is probably around 100 yrs old, but it has obviously had some serious abuse on it. The mention of the railroad iron anvil reminded me of a homebuilt anvil on the HAMB that was designed by a famous auto customizer. I'll have to see if I can dig up the design pic as it looked like a very useful tool.

[Robert Hall]

That's a thing of joy and beauty, Doug

[blackbart]

ABANA, or it's state affiliates (CBA in California) usually has group meeting twice a year where that would be an easy sell. They used to go of $.50 to $1.00 a lb for generic ones. Many boy scout camps have blacksmithing areas for the kids to get their metalworking badge, but that would be more of a donation. You should keep it, you might want a hobby some day!

[blackbart]

Actually, looking at your last posts, blacksmithing seems to be part of your work now, so forget the hobby thing! Maybe slip back to some knife making or something, but I have the feeling you already do that too. Fishing is all thats left……….

[7A749]

I had an opportunity to buy a very nice cast anvil, prolly 250-275 lbs easy for $600 about ten years ago. I shoulda bought it.

Don't find nice ones that big for a buck a pound. Not anymore

I think I paid $350 for my Hay Budden. 150 lb, full tool steel upper section. Got it out of a closing family run machine shop up in Grand Rapids and I guess it had been handed down thru three generations from what they told me when I came and picked it up

No, I don't think Doug's parting with this one

Still hate the green paint tho

[DSW]

I also have my grandfather's anvil that is probably around 100 yrs old, but it has obviously had some serious abuse on it.

Doesn't look all that abused from what I can see. I see a little bit of sway in the face, but it looks to be a forged anvil and what I understand, that's common on well used ones. I can't tell what the edges look like. I've seen ones with the horn or heel broken off, or big chunks out of the face, or having had the top face separate. Those I might consider "seriously abused".

[DSW]

Actually, looking at your last posts, blacksmithing seems to be part of your work now, so forget the hobby thing! Maybe slip back to some knife making or something, but I have the feeling you already do that too. Fishing is all that's left……….

It's still a hobby. I wouldn't mind going and working at one of the shops of my instructors to learn, but I'd probably end up doing repetitive fab work more so than forging. Not really where I want to go right now...

Never been really into making knives for whatever reason. Most guys I know who do that are grinders, not blacksmiths. 90% of the work is done cold shaping at a grinder, with the exception of those who forge their own Damascus stock. I wouldn't mind learning to do Damascus, but it's not really where my main interest is.

I've always loved that heavy riveted iron architecture of the late 1800's to early 1900's. That's more where my main interest is at the moment. Decorative architectural brackets, furniture maybe and so on, but who knows where I'll eventually end up with this. Maybe traditional tool making like chisels and such. Years ago I'd have been into the arms and armor type stuff. Now not so much.

[whtbaron]

Doesn't look all that abused from what I can see. I see a little bit of sway in the face, but it looks to be a forged anvil and what I understand, that's common on well used ones. I can't tell what the edges look like. I've seen ones with the horn or heel broken off, or big chunks out of the face, or having had the top face separate. Those I might consider "seriously abused".

Yea, there's no serious chunks out of it, just a little rough around the edges. Guess I could take the belt sander to the face and give it a coat of that antique green some day. I take it cast with tool steel faces are the premium units? How does forged compare to cast without the tool steel?

[DSW]

Don't go too nuts around the edges. Rounded corners are a "good" thing. That gives you different radius's to work with, and many guys immediately take a grinder and sander to the sharp edges of brand new anvils and soften the corners. Chips are bad, but if they are only in one small area, you can work around them and not have any issues.

Many really serviceable anvils are ruined by guys who try to "fix" them and don't know what they are doing. I had a guy try and BS me one time telling me he had refaced his anvil with a "hard" rod using 7018... The anvil was probably in fairly decent shape before he butchered it trying to make it pretty. All he did was make the top soft, even if he did make it smooth. I've also seen guys who machine or grind the top faces and destroy an anvil. Many times when an anvil with a tool steel top is cast, the top and base are not parallel. When they cut the top, they almost invariably just mill the top down and the top plate gets really thin at one end. I'd rather have a swaybacked anvil or one with edges in fair condition, than one someone butchered with half azzed "repairs".

Forged anvils are usually considered the "best", with cast steel 2nd and cast with a tool steel face 3rd, all cast being dead last. There are exceptions like the Fishers that are higher on many guys list, due to the high quality most of their anvils were, as well as how quiet they are.

Forged, Hay Buddens and Trentons are often high on the quality list just to name 2 off the top of my head. Peter Wrights are lower on the scale, but still really nice anvils. Some like Acme, were made by other manufacturers and rebranded. I think Sears anvils were made by someone else and rebranded as Acme, but I can't remember the details. Much of this is like Ford vs Chevy when you go on blacksmithing sites. Each member will have their own favorite list and ranking. There is a huge list of guys who made anvils over the years. Some companies like Fisher made anvils for almost 100 years. Quality can vary depending on when the anvil was made, even from the same company. Really old colonial anvils still pop up occasionally at yard sales, flea markets scrap yards etc. Many of those don't have a horn, or the horn is very crude and blunt. While they may not be much to look at, serious reenactors will pay top dollar for one because it is really period vs a modern London pattern anvil ( the shape that 95% of people think of when you say anvil) European anvils often have double horns, and saw makers anvils are simply square blocks. ( knife makers love these)

Anvils in America is THE book on anvils. It's VERY expensive, but you might find a copy at the library or be able to look at a copy someone in a local blacksmithing group has.

Modern cast tool steel anvils give new forged ones a run for their money. Modern cast iron ones are usually cheap import junk and only good as door stops or yard art. They are often referred to as ASO or Anvil Shaped Objects.

[whtbaron]

Hmmm....glad I asked. So if this is really forged, it's one of the good ones? I've never noticed any markings on it, but it probably weighs around 150 lbs so it's not something I turn over every day. Sounds like I should leave the face alone and not mess with it if it isn't too bad. lol... still might do the paint some day though. I definitely need to get an oak stump for it to sit on.

[Robert Hall]

So Doug,

Tell me if Im pissing up a rope here, but would it help a poor mans anvil, say a length of 130lb rail to cover it with a couple layers of abrasion resistant rod then have it machined smooth or would I just do better leaving well enough alone?

[DSW]

A lot of guys make railroad track anvils by turning them up on end and burring a foot or so in the ground. That puts the most mass below the hammer. You can only use an area the size of your hammer head anyways when you strike, so the small "footprint" isn't a big loss many think it would be.


For a "traditional" anvil, most track is work hardened anyways and pretty smooth. It's got a bit of a convex curve to it that sort of acts a lot like the horn on an anvil to help draw out material. If you need "flat", turn the stock 90 deg and use the long length wise vs cross wise. But if you want to face it and grind, you can do that too...


If you look at a lot of the anvils blade guys use, they are simply blocks of steel. No horn or anything like that. You can make a hardie block for separate use. I have a hardie block in the works. I'll do a post on in my blacksmithing tools thread either after the Grange is over and I get time to work on it, or after the start of the school year, when I can make use of the big plasma at the tech school to cut out some of the stuff and make my life easier.

[Robert Hall]

Thanks!