Chip briquetter

[JeffKiper]

What about using that 4" stoke cylinder to eject the puck up?
Imagine a T where the top of it is where the puck will be and the long leg is where. The cylinder will be pressing up from.

[dbotos]

What diameter briquette are you shooting for? Based on your higher-force coarse-chips sample (35 tons on a 1.25" diameter), required output pressure is about 57,000 psi. At that level of consolidation, a 2" diameter briquette would take about 90 tons output force and a 3" would need about 200 tons.

For $3500, you could buy a 100-ton press:

http://www.gregsmithtech.com/100-Ton...lic-Shop-Press

With a 14" stroke, if you used the top 4" of travel for loading chips, you'd still have 10" left for pressing. That means you could have a 16.67" deep mold cavity, fill it up with chips, press it down 10" to 90 tons, and poop a 2" dia x 6.67" long briquette out the bottom with a retractable base block.

[forhire]

What about using that 4" stoke cylinder to eject the puck up?
Imagine a T where the top of it is where the puck will be and the long leg is where. The cylinder will be pressing up from.

The usable stroke on that cylinder is currently on 1/4". YES, 1/4" OF AN INCH!! The long 3" ram extends all the way through the 5" cylinder. It's not really usable for anything. I suppose I could disassemble the cylinder and swap the bores so the 4" travel belongs to the center cylinder. Crazy... I know. I'm going to pass the idea past the hydraulic shop on Monday.

What diameter briquette are you shooting for? Based on your higher-force coarse-chips sample (35 tons on a 1.25" diameter), required output pressure is about 57,000 psi. At that level of consolidation, a 2" diameter briquette would take about 90 tons output force and a 3" would need about 200 tons.

For $3500, you could buy a 100-ton press:

http://www.gregsmithtech.com/100-Ton...lic-Shop-Press

With a 14" stroke, if you used the top 4" of travel for loading chips, you'd still have 10" left for pressing. That means you could have a 16.67" deep mold cavity, fill it up with chips, press it down 10" to 90 tons, and poop a 2" dia x 6.67" long briquette out the bottom with a retractable base block.

I'm shooting for a 1.5" to 2" diameter puck. Obviously the 2" would be more efficient to press. I thought about a press... but what fun is buying something when you can build it. Heck, I might buy some honed tube and rebuild this cylinder into what I need. An 8" stroke tandem would be about right. We'll see if the hydraulic shop runs me off on Monday.

I've been playing with the knuckle joint press design. The tonnage requirements can be fairly low... say 5 tons... but the space required is massive. To get a 10" stroke I used 18" arms with about a 12" cylinder stroke. Retracted is like 3 feet and extended is almost 4 feet. For pressing a short stroke, like compacting a puck to it's final density it would be great. Here's my models.

[leightrepairs]

If you want to use the cylinder you experimented with earlier you could disassemble it and re-configure it to suit your needs. If I remember correctly you are an accomplished machinist with access to a lathe and mill.

Mike

[JeffKiper]

What did you draw it up with?
What happened when you make the top arm to 9" and extend the bottom arm.

Think about 2 of these stacked on top of one another. The top one would be the eject cylinder with 4" stroke. The bottom would be compacting force and stroke.

[teachagmech]

If you had these(or 2 simple large diameter cylinders opposite each other, the bottom of the briquette die could be cut at an angle. When the briquette is pressed, the top ram is raised, the bottom one lifts the briquette out of the die and slides off

[teachagmech]

Nevermind, you'd have to lift/open the compaction chamber for this to work

[forhire]

If you want to use the cylinder you experimented with earlier you could disassemble it and re-configure it to suit your needs. If I remember correctly you are an accomplished machinist with access to a lathe and mill.

I've already been pricing out the the materials. A few lengths of of honed tube and some chromed rod. I'll cut down the 3" rod and have it press the 5" front rod. I suspect the front piston and rod will need to be re-made as they are hollow now. It will also be interesting to see why the cylinder appears to work in reverse. What would normally be the return side... pressures the cylinder out. :crazy: I found my paper work from when I bought the cylinder in '09... it said it was used as an intensifier. Not sure what it was for.

What did you draw it up with?
What happened when you make the top arm to 9" and extend the bottom arm.

Think about 2 of these stacked on top of one another. The top one would be the eject cylinder with 4" stroke. The bottom would be compacting force and stroke.

I drew it in Geomagic Design (Alibre). I'm not sure what you mean by making the top arm 9" and extending the bottom arm. Both are equal now. I can shorten one of them. but I'm now sure how to do the math when they aren't equal. I suppose once it's in the near flat position it's similar to the equal arms. This gives me a 7" stroke with an 8" stroke cylinder. Is this what your thinking of?

[JeffKiper]

Yes non equal lengths.

Post that info on the cylinder. It might be an air over oil intensifier. These things are great. i have built a lot of machines with them.

[forhire]

Post that info on the cylinder. It might be an air over oil intensifier. These things are great. i have built a lot of machines with them.

I think that is exactly what it is. There aren't any marking on the cylinder. Turned out the "stroke" was 4" and 1/4". How does an intensifier work? What could I use an air over oil intensifier for? The image below makes sense. What I see with this cylinder doesn't. If I use it to intensify the PSI then I could use it to drive a cylinder and make larger pucks. If I can figure out how it works.

[forhire]

If you had these(or 2 simple large diameter cylinders opposite each other, the bottom of the briquette die could be cut at an angle. When the briquette is pressed, the top ram is raised, the bottom one lifts the briquette out of the die and slides off

I understand the opposing cylinders. The die would site between them. I don't think I visualize how the die separates ejecting the puck. I'm slow, sometimes I need a picture.

[JeffKiper]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...74649129,d.aWw

This is what I think it is. I bet it is uses an external hydraulic oil reservoir, instead of the internal that this PDF shows.

Basic principles. Put AIR on top of the low pressure OIL. This pushes the cylinder out with OIL at whatever AIR pressure you have. This is the fast stroke low pressure. Again it is at shop AIR pressure. The OIL is non compressible remember this. So the cylinder is extended out just say 2". Now the AIR is applied to the AIR port on the left of that picture. The piston is several times larger then the rod. The rod is what is going to compress the OIL in the front chamber. This will give you the power stroke. Low speed high pressure from AIR.

I bet this is a 6 ton cylinder.

[jones6780]

Do you need 18" arms? The question is how much (length) uncompacted material do you need to have your size of compacted briquet? The second part is the beginning of the compaction needs less pressure so could the arms have a more acute angle for more travel?

[forhire]

Do you need 18" arms? The question is how much (length) uncompacted material do you need to have your size of compacted briquet? The second part is the beginning of the compaction needs less pressure so could the arms have a more acute angle for more travel?

18" might be a little longer than required. I'd like a 6" compression, with enough space for the ram to retract so the cylinder can be filled. When the arms are fully retracted they are at 90 degrees to each other. This cuts the cylinder force in half at the start, which isn't an issue because the first few inches are an easy push. The second design with the short arm and long arm would likely work about right and this saves a lot of space. I still need to come up with a way to eject the puck.

[JeffKiper]

Does it look like an intensifier? Does my goofy explanation make sense?

[forhire]

Does it look like an intensifier? Does my goofy explanation make sense?

Thanks for the PDF. Now I understand how it works... it's just not suitable for my purposes.

[JeffKiper]

Did you ever come up with something that works?

[forhire]

Did you ever come up with something that works?

Interesting you should ask... I was just working on tomorrows plan. I'm going to rebuild this cylinder to do what I need it to do. Scot Industrial is local and they have all the honed cylinder and chromed rod I'll need in stock which saves me a lot on freight. Materials aren't cheap but I work cheap so I come out ahead in the end. I'm thinking I'll go with a 12" stroke. Hopefully I'll be able to re-cycle the 3" bar and piston. I will need to cut it down. I'll replace the 5" portion and I may have to re-make the piston. Hopefully my blocks don't need too much work.

Tonight, I designed this lifting plate to assist in the dis-assembly. I think quarter inch will be enough... it's what I have handy. It's "only" 450 lbs. I'm planning on blocking it up and lifting it off the back section and then pull the long piston and rod. Then lift off the mid section and pull the second piston and rod. Not sure if this is the best method but it made since to me. Hopefully someone will stop me if I'm going at it totally wrong.

Before I go whole hog, I'll likely just pull the back plate and take some ID measurements to make sure the tube is the 8" ID and 9.25" OD it appears to be.

[JeffKiper]

a 25 ton shop press right?

5" to compress and 3" to eject?

[forhire]

a 25 ton shop press right?

5" to compress and 3" to eject?

No, 50 ton. The 3" cylinder rod will push the 5" cylinder rod internally in tandem. The cylinder is rated for 3000 psi. The cylinder will produce 150 tons at 3000 psi but I intend to run it at 1000 psi because that is the power unit I have. I'm going to increase the stroke so the cylinder can eject and feed. I could have made it work with a 6" stroke... but if I have to replace a couple sections of tubes and rod anyway... I might as well re-work it.

http://www.ehp-eg.com/hydraulic-trai...ulic-cylinder/

Tandem Cylinder
In double acting cylinders operating in tandem, there are two cylinders which are connected together in such a way that the piston rod of one cylinder pushes through the bottom of the other cylinder to its piston area. By using this arrangement the areas are added together and large forces may be transferred for relatively small external diameters without increasing the operating pressure. However the longer length of this model must be taken into account.

[wintermute]

My neighbor would love me to have one of those . She takes all my scrap and sells it to pay for the feed for her horses. Aluminum scrap has a pretty nice return up here right now, but they don't like taking it in piles of swarf. Would be nice to give it to her in nicely pressed pucks.

--Wintermute

[forhire]

My neighbor would love me to have one of those . She takes all my scrap and sells it to pay for the feed for her horses. Aluminum scrap has a pretty nice return up here right now, but they don't like taking it in piles of swarf. Would be nice to give it to her in nicely pressed pucks.

The stringy chips are certainly a real pain. Even smashing them into garbage cans doesn't accomplish much... they still take up a lot of space. Years ago I priced a small grinder that would install on the end of my chip conveyor to grind everything to a uniform size. It looked great until I got the quote... 13 grand... for a 2 hp motor, gear box, and some knives. The payback would be way too long. I toyed with building one but I discovered that if I pull the stringy stuff before it's taken up the conveyor it really helps keep stuff sorted. With only the stringy chips in the garbage cans I can stack them easy two high until the Scouts can pick them up. I image to puck them the stringy chips would have to be ground up.

I tried compressing the stringy chips with the wood splitter once in some 4" pipe... acted like a giant spring.

Today, I didn't get too much done. I cranked out the lift plate this morning. I had to make some adjustments from the drawing I made last night... I transposed a number. Even still... after I cut it out... it didn't fit. Turned out one of the studs was bent. A couple minutes with the die grinder and it fit. Before I left tonight I threw on some paint. I'm sure this fixture will see some use before I'm all done. I had to use the thread file on one thread... but it's smooth now. I didn't have a 1-7/8 wrench so I'll get it attached once I have a wrench.

[forhire]

I finally got the 4 nuts loose. I don't know what they were torqued to but the wrench wasn't doing it. So I built a cheater. I used a length of flat bar, some scrap, and one of the nuts. Glad they come in a 5 pack. I managed to loosen one by standing on it. So I then cut some 1.25" round bar, faced it and welded to some angle to serve as an out rigger. I welded some more scrap to the outrigger after I took the picture. I still couldn't loosen them... so I tried a 6 foot length of 3" pipe, which I was trying to avoid, that worked but too much work, I'm still nursing broken ribs from 6 weeks ago. So I torched a hole in the cheater handle and used the crane. Total tool abuse but it worked so easy. Here's some pictures. Enjoy.

[forhire]

The lift plate is finally installed. The threads were full of paint and couple had been banged up. Took forever. I was dreaming of a deep socket on the impact wrench. Alas I had to do it with the wrench.

[forhire]

I disassembled the cylinder today. The lifting plate worked like a charm. I used it to drain the cylinder and then I set it on some 6x6 cribbing so I could start tearing it down. First I pulled the back plate with a magnet. They are great when you're doing thick material. Next I pulled the rear piston and rod with the magnet. Because I don't generally trust magnets I strapped the part, just in case, but this time the magnet held well. Next I needed to remove the rear cylinder tub. After much fiddling I finally used the small spreader and some clamps. Worked good. I protected the tube with some leather gloves rather than risking the copper jaws on the honed surface. At least I think the jaws are copper and not just plated. Next came the mid section, the magnet couldn't get enough grip so I used a some webbing. Looks sketchy but it worked fine. Finally to remove the front cylinder I had to make a puller plate... quick little plasma job.