Chip briquetter

[forhire]

I'm finally getting around to building my chip briquetter. This has been on my mind for years. This week I've been messing around with digging out all the parts and finalizing my plans. Now it's time to get some input so I can hopefully produce a viable machine.

Here's the background:
Over the years I've slowly improved my chip handling. The first thing I did was to sort the stringy rats nests from the chips. This allowed me to store a lot of chips. I then experimented with melting them into ingots: http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...0lb-ingot-mold But, that was too much work. Recently I switched to 55 gallon drums and that has been nice for the day to day handling: http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...5-gallon-drums I store the chips in 1 ton totes and use a drum tilter on the forklift to fill the totes.

Well a couple weeks ago I hauled in the scrap and was once again reminded that I left 2 grand on the table because the chips were loose.

So I tore into a hydraulic unit I had saved: http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...lic-power-unit to see if I could hop it up. Nope.

Today I spent nearly entire afternoon digging out the big old cylinder I have for this machine.

Now onto the experiments:
I started by making a small press die that I could load down with chips and press on the shop press. I'd 1.25" diameter and 1" tall... for easy math... and it was basically correct from the scrap bin.

I first pressed a batch to 15 tons which should have been about 12.19 ton psi at the face. It compressed to about 7/16 of an inch. The next one I compressed to 35 tons which is 28 tons at the face. This produced a much better puck and compressed to about 3/8". I also pressed some saw shavings. They compressed very tightly but they only represent a few hundred pounds compared to the tons of the granular chip.

Here's some photos:

[forhire]

Here's the cylinder. 8" bore, 6" stroke, with a 1/4" stroke tandem cylinder... to really drive it home. It's a little short on the stroke but otherwise it's big. It's rated for 3000 psi which puts it at 150 tons with the tandem. I'm going to be running it at 1000 psi because that's what my power unit can do. Originally when I bought the cylinder I was hoping for a 3" puck but I suspect I'll be in the 2" diameter range now. I'm thinking I can compress the 6" cylinder of chips to 2" and then give it the final 1/4" press to tighten it.

I messed around moving it with compressed air today. I need to get some hoses and hook it up to the power unit to see how it runs.

Any input is appreciated.

[Mikel_24]

...Well a couple weeks ago I hauled in the scrap and was once again reminded that I left 2 grand on the table because the chips were loose.

2 grand seems like a very good reason to figure out a way to compact the chips (aluminum, right?). Why do they pay them cheaper if loose? More difficult handling?

Did you ask them if there are any limitations regarding shape/weight of the briquettes? Just to make sure you don't go through all the effort of building your briquetter only to find out that they don't fit their criteria and they still consider your chips as loose...

Mikel

[Billdacat]

Are you going to automate this tool? I recall seeing an extruder auger for plastic pellets that had a compression section from my childhood days (surplus Hulu-hoop extruder...no $hit). I could see tossing all the chips into a hopper over a compression extruder to charge you briquette mold. Hell, you could personalize your briquettes with a logo. Your talking tons, right??

[forhire]

2 grand seems like a very good reason to figure out a way to compact the chips (aluminum, right?). Why do they pay them cheaper if loose? More difficult handling?

Did you ask them if there are any limitations regarding shape/weight of the briquettes? Just to make sure you don't go through all the effort of building your briquetter only to find out that they don't fit their criteria and they still consider your chips as loose...

Once briquetted they are a third of the original size so they can pack more in the rail car. When they go to the foundry they sink in the melt rather than floating on top so they get a higher yield. The briquette insures the chips are coolant free. The foundry pays less if they have to briquette. Standard commercial press is 2" diameter at 42 tons on a 6" column. 2" diameter has an area of 3.14 which makes it 13 ton per square inch at the face. I figure I'll be at 16 tons per square inch so right in the neighborhood. If I want a tighter chip I can use a smaller die. I don't think there is a size limit on the briquette... they just want it solid and dry. My chips are dry so I do get more than most guys. When the boss at the scrap yard tells me I really need to briquette... it means he has a market to make a lot more off my chips than he's getting now loose.

Are you going to automate this tool? I recall seeing an extruder auger for plastic pellets that had a compression section from my childhood days (surplus Hulu-hoop extruder...no $hit). I could see tossing all the chips into a hopper over a compression extruder to charge you briquette mold. Hell, you could personalize your briquettes with a logo. Your talking tons, right??

Yes I'm talking tons. I don't think a screw extruder would work with aluminum chips... I thought about it but I suspect there is a reason all the commercial briquette machines do scrap with a hydraulic piston is for a reason. If I had a logo... it would be easy to emboss it for sure. I'm still working on the feed mechanism. Right now I'm thinking the cylinder will be on top and and press through a hopper that feeds the cylinder. Yes it will be automated... eventually.

[Billdacat]

I was thinking about a two stage process with the compression auger; didn't really explain myself well. Compression auger could be your feed mechanism for charging the hydraulic press/mold with densely packed chips. Another idea is a high-volume material compressor i.e crank-shaft, flywheel and piston under the hopper for pre-compression.
Is this once a month chore of hauling chips??? Do you see yourself taking in other peoples chips for processing?

[jones6780]

I guess you have seen the http://www.puckmaster.com/. The AirForce had just bought this about the time I retired.

[forhire]

I was thinking about a two stage process with the compression auger; didn't really explain myself well. Compression auger could be your feed mechanism for charging the hydraulic press/mold with densely packed chips. Another idea is a high-volume material compressor i.e crank-shaft, flywheel and piston under the hopper for pre-compression.
Is this once a month chore of hauling chips??? Do you see yourself taking in other peoples chips for processing?

That makes more sense. I haven't decided exactly how I'm going to feed it. An auger would work well with the consistent chips I generally produce. At the present time this machine will be used in-house, I don't have any plans to produce pucks for others.

I guess you have seen the http://www.puckmaster.com/. The AirForce had just bought this about the time I retired.

Yes, I've looked at those and a bunch of others also. I just don't produce enough chips to justify buying a machine... but I've managed to scrounge up the parts I have so it's just my time. Maybe I should keep an eye on government liquidation for one.

[Insaneride]

It sounds like you have alot of chips Forhire. For my small amount of chips; I cut the top off a 24 oz beer can, fill with chips, compress with a piece of 2" diam steel, repeat till full and fold the top of the can over to keep everything together. I have dreams of melting them into ingots but its just a dream.

Trying to visualize your setup; Im thinking the auger feed (Archimedes screw) but a nut design instead of screw. Ive used the auger nut design to feed pucks among other scrap to make ingots/electrodes. What Im talking about is and depending on your scale: take a 55 gal drum and put threads on the inside. The threads could be made of 14 gauge plate about 4 to 8" high. Im guessing 8 to 10 threads for entire length of drum will work. Lay the drum with material on its side on rollers and spin it to feed material into the charge hopper. Im thinking it would be like a big reloading tool but instead of gravity feed it would be auger to gravity feed.

Hope this makes sense.

[forhire]

It sounds like you have alot of chips Forhire. For my small amount of chips; I cut the top off a 24 oz beer can, fill with chips, compress with a piece of 2" diam steel, repeat till full and fold the top of the can over to keep everything together. I have dreams of melting them into ingots but its just a dream.

I'm way past the cans filled with chips stage. Plus the scrap yard would freak out. For melting up some ingots in-house... that's a great idea. When I was doing the 20 lb ingots I was simply dumping them in loose and pushing them down into the melt. Your can idea is genius simple... aside from the labor to fill them. If I drank beer... I'd be all over the idea I suppose.

I'm not super high volume... a couple 55 gallon drums per day to one a week when I'm slow. Initially I'll likely sell the pucks but the goal is to ultimately cast them into something that has some value. I also like the idea of being able to store more scrap allowing me to sell when prices are highest. Plus... it takes the same amount of time and fuel to haul a light load to scrap as it does a heavy load. The difference is the check.

I like your auger idea... I bet a feed line auger would work well to keep the charge cylinder loaded. If you look at the chips you'll see they are very uniform. I'm sure I can scrounge up a feed line auger. Thinking about it... another option would be a coal auger... or a pellet auger. Come to think about it... I have a pellet auger around here some place. I guess I better start digging around more.

[dbotos]

You could see what kind of compression you're getting with the following formula:

% comp = (400 x m_briquette) / (0.0975 x pi x d^2 x h)

where m_briquette is the weight of the briquette in pounds and d and h are the diameter and height in inches. I wonder if the foundry has some minimum % compression that they prefer. Too bad you're not closer - we have a 600-ton press where I work.

[colindstark]

Could you add a fulcrum to make your ram act like its bigger like with an accupress press break?

[forhire]

You could see what kind of compression you're getting with the following formula:

% comp = (400 x m_briquette) / (0.0975 x pi x d^2 x h)

where m_briquette is the weight of the briquette in pounds and d and h are the diameter and height in inches. I wonder if the foundry has some minimum % compression that they prefer. Too bad you're not closer - we have a 600-ton press where I work.

I imagine I could have some fun with a 600 ton press. I'm not sure I entirely follow the formula as written. Wouldn't I solve for the area of the cylinder using the radius, like pi*r2*h, rather than the diameter? I assume 0.0975 refers to the the weight of aluminum per cubic inch. I'm not sure what the constant of 400 represents. I really need to find my kitchen scale and play a little.

I'm not sure if the foundry has a density requirement... but as you've shown it appears fairly easy to calculate.

[forhire]

Could you add a fulcrum to make your ram act like its bigger like with an accupress press break?

Kinda like an iron worker? I hadn't really given it much thought. That would overcome my hydraulic limitation and likely speed things up. I wonder why the commercial machines opt for directly pressing rather than using a fulcrum. I'll have to noodle on that some more. Of course I already have a big cylinder.

[mnrjohnson]

I think the constant of 400 comes from (pi x d^2)/4 is the same as pi x r^2, which I like because it is hard to measure a radius, and dividing by 100 gives a % but shuffled around a little.

[colindstark]

Kinda like an iron worker? I hadn't really given it much thought. That would overcome my hydraulic limitation and likely speed things up. I wonder why the commercial machines opt for directly pressing rather than using a fulcrum. I'll have to noodle on that some more. Of course I already have a big cylinder.

Probably so they have all the force in one plane, and if you get a big enough team you can go from chip to extrusion in one step.

[forhire]

I think the constant of 400 comes from (pi x d^2)/4 is the same as pi x r^2, which I like because it is hard to measure a radius, and dividing by 100 gives a % but shuffled around a little.

That makes sense... not I need to weigh my briquettes and see how they come out.

Probably so they have all the force in one plane, and if you get a big enough team you can go from chip to extrusion in one step.

I tried pressing some chips through a taper I found in the scrap bin... the only thing I accomplished was to have a cylinder shaped puck that sprung out. I also tried heating the chips to 300 degrees and the pressing them... but it fell apart for some reason. I suspect expansion and contraction prevented it from locking in tight. It would be cool to extrude straight from chips but I don't have near the pressures required.

[colindstark]

That makes sense... not I need to weigh my briquettes and see how they come out.



I tried pressing some chips through a taper I found in the scrap bin... the only thing I accomplished was to have a cylinder shaped puck that sprung out. I also tried heating the chips to 300 degrees and the pressing them... but it fell apart for some reason. I suspect expansion and contraction prevented it from locking in tight. It would be cool to extrude straight from chips but I don't have near the pressures required.

Yet

[dbotos]

I think the constant of 400 comes from (pi x d^2)/4 is the same as pi x r^2, which I like because it is hard to measure a radius, and dividing by 100 gives a % but shuffled around a little.

That is correct. r^2 = (d/2)^2 = d^2/4. As you noted, most circular measurements are provided as diameter. The % compression formula is density of the briquette ÷ density of 6061 aluminum x 100. I'd be curious to see what percentages are attainable. I'm guessing chip geometry, chip material properties, and briquette mold geometry will affect it (not to mention pressing tonnage).

[dbotos]

The 600-ton makes a hell lf a can-crusher:

http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...91#post2804891

[forhire]

Yet

I like the way you think!

I'd be curious to see what percentages are attainable. I'm guessing chip geometry, chip material properties, and briquette mold geometry will affect it (not to mention pressing tonnage).

I am also. I spent a while this afternoon looking for my scale in the shop. Hopefully I can weigh some in the morning.

The 600-ton makes a hell lf a can-crusher:

Those are awesome! Hope your boss didn't see you smashing cans in his press. When I first got my log splitter running I was smashing every thing in sight. I tried some turnings but I used too large of diameter. If I recall the pipe was 4". I think the aluminum bar I'm pushing with is 3.5"
http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...077#post451077

[dbotos]

I am also. I spent a while this afternoon looking for my scale in the shop. Hopefully I can weigh some in the morning.

I know that routine. I was going crazy last night looking for a piece of ESD matting. The worst part was that I couldn't remember if I had thrown it out or not. Fortunately, I hadn't thrown it out and I eventually spotted the top of it rolled up buried underneath some stuff behind one of my stock racks.

Those are awesome! Hope your boss didn't see you smashing cans in his press. When I first got my log splitter running I was smashing every thing in sight. I tried some turnings but I used too large of diameter. If I recall the pipe was 4". I think the aluminum bar I'm pushing with is 3.5"
http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...077#post451077

At least the cans weren't full. I've sheared thin aluminum extrusion before on my little electric splitter. Haven't done anything crazy with the big gas one yet. I do need to make a tire bead-breaker attachment for the little one like this:

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/c...ml#post2345962

I wonder how well something like a power hammer / forging press would do for making briquettes. I usually crush my aluminum cans with a tamper and the impact seems to do a decent job of consolidating those.

[forhire]

You could see what kind of compression you're getting with the following formula:

% comp = (400 x m_briquette) / (0.0975 x pi x d^2 x h)

I found my scale. It's a kitchen style that I use for mixing stuff. It's only accurate to 1 gram so understand these numbers may be slightly generous... if it rounds up.

The two samples with course chips both weighed 20 grams and the band saw shavings weighed 16 grams. So about 5/8 of an ounce and a 1/2 ounce respectively. I was pleased the two course samples came in the same.

I wrote a quick calculator so all I need to do is plug in the diameter, height, and weight in grams. I found it easier to convert from grams than dealing with the ounces.

Refer to the 4th image in my first post to see which sample is which.

Left sample:
course chips
35 tons
20 grams
0.3815" high
compressed 96.6%

Center Sample:
course chips
15 tons
20 grams
0.4696" high
compressed 78.47%

Right Sample:
band saw shavings
35 tons
16 grams
0.302" high
compressed 97.62%

Clearly the higher tonnage and the shape of the chip makes a difference. The commercial units advertise a face pressure of about 28 to 30 tons and the 35 ton tests had a face pressure of 28.45 tons so I'm in the neighborhood.

[forhire]

This cylinder has me puzzled. Maybe somebody and educate me how it works. It's almost like there's an internal valve or something. I'm kinda dumb on hydraulics, I must admit.

So, I figured I'd try moving it with some compressed air. I could make the 1/4" portion to extend and retract using the 3/4 fitting and the SAE 12 fitting on the side. When I put air to the 1" fitting on the top the air just came out the SAE 16 fitting on the side. So, I machined up a cover and plugged it. I then was able to extend the cylinder. When I removed the SAE 16 cover air escaped like it had built up pressure. I then tried to blow air into the SAE 16 port but couldn't get the cylinder to retract. Clearly I have to hook this up to some hydraulic power, I just want to understand the ports to make sure I so it right. It appears, aside from the one port that is plugged on top, the BSP ports are extend, and the SAE ports are retract. Am I thinking correctly.

Anyway, I wasted a bunch of time designing and machining the cover. The CNC mill made quick work of it at least. If anyone is interested in the dimensions here's a handy pdf I found for 4 bolt SAE ports. http://www.inserta.com/PDF/AI-SAE-FLG-PORT-DIM.pdf

Here's some photos. The bottom two show the cylinder ports that may help someone decode them. I loaded it in the pickup to take it down to the hydraulic shop in the morning and have them tell me what I need. I'm feeling kinda dumb but this cylinder has me confused. So far I've only been able to move the center piston 1/4" in and out. I didn't see that extending the larger cylinder accomplished anything.

[hddnis]

It is possible there are internal dampers in the cylinder. I've run into that a few times. Usually easy to bypass with a well placed hole.


Mr. HE