TIG with C25 Argon/CO2... Not so Good!

[Rick V]

Lesson here - live and learn!
I had a new TIG welder but no argon gas, bottle, or regulator - just small CO2 tanks.
"Bring your TIG welder over next time you're up my way", said my out-of-town pal.
So 200km (120 miles) and a few weeks later, I was in my pal's garage.
"I just got my bottle filled. let's give her a try."
Note: Neither of us had 'tigged' before... but we'd been around it and knew what to expect.

Being our 1st time, we went at just 40 amps (electrode negative) on some sheet metal (steel).
Arc lite just fine... just like on TV!
Over the next say 15 minutes, we each took turns playing... neither of us could lay a bead but then... WTF?

Yeah, the end of my ceramic cup fell off! The electrode was all crapped-up too!

Want to see a close up?

Lovely eh? Just lovely!


"Hey what's going on?"
"Are you sure that gas is argon?"
"It's 'ArgoShield'."
"ArgoShield ! That's like C25 - 75% Argon and 25% CO2. The CO2 is burning up the torch."

Ah well... it was fun while it lasted!
Lesson = TIG needs inert gas like argon, C25 doesn't cut it!

[William McCormick Jr]

Only use Argon for TIG. Or helium for special things.

CO2 can plasma or laser cut, very nicely, when you subject it to electricity. More then hot enough to melt ceramic.

The gases around the sun are CO2. So you know that 10,000 degrees is a possibility. The sun gives off a white plasma like light if you are not in the earths atmosphere.

You also do not want to breath the fumes from doing, what you did with the CO2 passing over the Tungsten.


Sincerely,


William McCormick

[dave powelson]

******Rick, if you don't mind, these great pics need to be posted in a sticky, to help answer the same question
that is asked here-weekly. Thanks for posting this!

[joedirt1966]

William,
The sun only has a very very small amount of oxygen and carbon. Not a great comparison!

Element Abundance(percentage of total number of atoms)
Hydrogen 91.2 %
Helium 8.7 %
Oxygen 0.078 %
Carbon 0.043 %
Nitrogen 0.0088 %
Silicon 0.0045 %
Magnesium 0.0038 %
Neon 0.0035 %
Iron 0.0030 %
Sulfur 0.0015 %

[joedirt1966]

The sun gives off a white plasma like light if you are not in the earths atmosphere.



Sincerely,


William McCormick

Since we are in the Earth's atmoshpere, what does it give off????

I think you should have stopped after your first 5 words......Only use Argon for TIG.

[Broccoli1]

The sun gives off a white plasma like light if you are not in the earths atmosphere.



William McCormick

Like you?!!

[William McCormick Jr]

William,
The sun only has a very very small amount of oxygen and carbon. Not a great comparison!

Element Abundance(percentage of total number of atoms)
Hydrogen 91.2 %
Helium 8.7 %
Oxygen 0.078 %
Carbon 0.043 %
Nitrogen 0.0088 %
Silicon 0.0045 %
Magnesium 0.0038 %
Neon 0.0035 %
Iron 0.0030 %
Sulfur 0.0015 %

The light you see from the sun, is from the carbon dioxide in a candescent state. Like in a CO2 laser. However through the earths atmosphere the sun looks yellow. If you leave earths orbit and earths outer atmosphere, the sun is a white ball. CO2 is probably the only chemical that could take the heat and give off white light.

CO2 lasers are sealed and contain very small amounts of carbon dioxide. It is just a very thin gaseous atmosphere of carbon dioxide around the sun that causes the white light from the sun.

The MAG ARC with CO2 coverage gas, can go to 10,000 degrees just like the sun. The suns surface is stated to be 10,800 degrees Fahrenheit.

You can easily melt tungsten, that melts at over 6,000 degrees Fahrenheit with a MIG or MAG torch.

You can certainly do it with a TIG torch with just Argon. Because a TIG ARC can easily go to 10,000 degrees. Some books from TIG manufacturers claim the TIG ARC, can go to 35,000 degrees. You can boil tungsten with a TIG torch in Argon.

And it appears that someone else took out the ceramic cup with CO2.

I was just offering some facts that might interest some, still expanding their horizons.

I have run nitrogen, and oxygen, through a TIG torch, to test those elements in an ARC.

I run helium, and Argon through the TIG torch to weld. But I never ran CO2 into a TIG torch. So I am just assuming the poster did in fact run CO2 through the torch. You could do that with Argon.

I would be a bit afraid to run hydrogen or carbon dioxide through a TIG torch myself.


Sincerely,


William McCormick

[joedirt1966]

Welcome back William!

[bert the welder]

I'd just like to thank Rick for being able to use his camera!!!!! Nice Pic's Rick!!! Hope the torch isn't wrecked.

[SundownIII]

Billy,

Next time you plan to swing by and do some tig welding on the surface of the sun, please let us know so we can prepare for the resulting "sun spots".


PS. You're the only one who lives in "your little world", so be aware, most of the garbage you put out, doesn't apply to us mere mortals.

[William McCormick Jr]

Here is something from the past that was geared more for the average eighth grade superman.




Sincerely,


William McCormick

[SundownIII]

What in the fulk does this have to do with running C25 thru a tig torch?

[DSW]

What in the fulk does this have to do with running C25 thru a tig torch?

I think you answered your own question.

PS. You're the only one who lives in "your little world",...

Is this a Jeopardy question? I'll take "Billy Mac" for $800!

[William McCormick Jr]

What in the fulk does this have to do with running C25 thru a tig torch?

I can tell you in all honesty, that about six people wanted to screw the TIG regulator onto an Argon CO2 tank.

"Same stuff right" was what they said to me. Or "just for this one weld we can use it right"?

I was just forwarding something that I learned a long time ago about carbon that would not allow me to put it into a TIG torch. One is that carbon burns. So it may collect and let loose lots of oxygen, as you heat and cool it. They take CO2 and can turn it into carbon monoxide with heat in commercial processes. A ceramic cup that has absorbed water vapor would be just the thing to start the reaction.

Carbon or even carbon monoxide could combine with the ceramic and use the oxygen in the ceramic to burn.

Another thing I learned was that carbon was always associated with extremely high temperatures. Carbon ARC rods, Carbon dioxide lasers, the gas around the sun.

Just offering some knowledge about the substance carbon. That I think you should know if you are going to use it.

There was a civil war tracked steam tank that was made of two inch thick black carbon steel and not a round on earth at the time could penetrate it. I suspect only a few rounds today could do it.

A similar black carbon steel pillar, was dug up, it was dated back many thousands of years ago. Just some food for the mind.


Your mind seems to get indigestion from my brain food. Ha-ha. Just don't look at it.

Sincerely,


William McCormick

[zapster]

Oh My...
I get indigestion from Mexican food...

Carbon may make things hard...
But it also makes them brittle.

Easier to break it than to drill it.

...zap!

[William McCormick Jr]

When cable first came out, we could not afford it. So I silver soldered drill rod into a set of pole climbers I made from steel. Good thing the drill rod broke before I got to the top. Ha-ha. Those tar splinters smart. Ha-ha.

I used to go up the pole and take the dummy plugs they put in, once your free trial ran out. And I would drill them out and make them through connectors. So we got all the channels. Ha-ha.

Yea pays to know your carbon. Ha-ha.


Sincerely,


William McCormick

[Rick V]

Oh My... I can't believe it... what happened to my simple post?
I feel like a 60's flower child whose demure innocence has been stomped over by rampant Neo-Nazis.

[SundownIII]

I don't think Billy was talking about a Civil War tank with a carbon steel shell.

I think that was his head he was talking about. Few legitimate thoughts can penetrate it.

[William McCormick Jr]

Oh My... I can't believe it... what happened to my simple post?
I feel like a 60's flower child whose demure innocence has been stomped over by rampant Neo-Nazis.

I appreciate the post, now I can say that the torch will melt off. Instead of you just cannot use CO2 in the TIG torch.

Sincerely,


William McCormick

[weldbead]

Oh My...
I get indigestion from Mexican food...

Carbon may make things hard...
But it also makes them brittle.

Easier to break it than to drill it.

...zap!

i got carbon but it didnt make anything hard...

[William McCormick Jr]

I don't think Billy was talking about a Civil War tank with a carbon steel shell.

I think that was his head he was talking about. Few legitimate thoughts can penetrate it.

They did a really great special on the civil war tank. The round it fired, was said to ignite wood into flames, within a quarter mile radius of its detonation. It used rather simple compounds to do it. That was why the tank was two inches thick and made of actually black colored carbon steel. To protect the operator from his own ammo.

They said the round would expand to the size of a basketball before rupturing. The tank would come ashore and fire a few rounds and leave. Leaving burnt waste land behind it. I just thought that for that time those guys had some wild stuff.

Sincerely,


William McCormick

[ZTFab]

Billy....YOU JUST DON'T GET IT!!!! WE DON'T CARE ABOUT YOUR RAMBLINGS!!

SHUT THE FUKK UP!!!!!

[ZTFab]

i got carbon but it didnt make anything hard...

You may need glasses or you might want to get your prescription checked if you already wear them....

The little bottle you want for that should say CIALIS, not carbon.

[socoj2]

They did a really great special on the civil war tank. The round it fired, was said to ignite wood into flames, within a quarter mile radius of its detonation. It used rather simple compounds to do it. That was why the tank was two inches thick and made of actually black colored carbon steel. To protect the operator from his own ammo.

They said the round would expand to the size of a basketball before rupturing. The tank would come ashore and fire a few rounds and leave. Leaving burnt waste land behind it. I just thought that for that time those guys had some wild stuff.

Sincerely,


William McCormick

This nonsense you speak. link to a reference.

[William McCormick Jr]

This nonsense you speak. link to a reference.

Someone else brought up the civil war tank.

I watched a special about it and I also went to West Point when I was younger. Where it was stationed during the civil war. If I come across a link to it I will post it.

A few years back I was not part of the minority that knew of this tank. Today it appears I am part of the minority. Years ago guys would jump in and mention it was tracked or was steam powered. I guess this is one of those devices that has fallen off the earth for a while.

Kind of like Madd Radar, that did not exist for many years during my life. I have had violent arguments with people that claim it is not possible to hunt subs using MADD (Magnetic Anomaly Detection Device). I know people who were on subs and they claim nothing could find them, or so they were told.

My father worked for Grumman Aero Space, and he worked on a project that hunted and killed submarines, from the air. From a great distance away. For a while in my lifetime, no one believed that you can use magnetic fields basically a form of radio to hunt subs. Until it came out on the history channel that Madd Radar, was the way they found subs in World War Two.

The Germans magnetic mines would detect the ships passing above and detonate using a similar technology. But I still come across guys on both sides of the fence. One guy is screaming you cannot detect a submarine under water. And another guy is claiming that of course Madd radar is possible, it is over 75 years old. That is just life I guess. I would say if you are not interested or worried about it don't sweat it.

So believe what you like. Until I find something on it.


Sincerely,


William McCormick