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Thread: When shouldn't you give advice... because of safety concerns???

  1. #1
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    When shouldn't you give advice... because of safety concerns???

    I work in tech. support for welding equipment and supplies and had a bit of a dilemma today. One of the branches I deal with had called me last week about a customers regulators freezing when using a large rosebud and wanted high flow regulators. I asked him to get me some more information on if the oxygen, acetylene or both regulators were freezing and what size of rosebud the guy was using. I also asked if he was using more than 1 acetylene cylinder with a manifold? He called back today, couldn't tell me which regulators were freezing (I assumed both from what he was telling me) but it was a very large rosebud on a truck out in the bush using only 1 acet. cylinder. He said the guy was using the large size HD Victor regulators. I have never heard of regulators freezing using a rosebud, in the summer no less. I tried to explain to him how dangerous it was to withdraw too much acetylene, too fast from a cylinder and it was like talking to a wall. I found some higher flow regulators and then he wanted to know all the flow rates. I again explained how dangerous it was to use only 1 cylinder and he tells me the guy has been doing this for 30 years. I responded it only takes one explosion! He said the guy wants to set up another rosebud the same way and asked if there's a kit. I finally just gave him Victors number so he could get all the technical data from them. I hope they also told him how dangerous it is. I talked to my boss about it and he just said we have to try and help the branches out. I don't think he realized how dangerous it was either. When do you say no, I can't help you? It was like being asked how to set up a potential bomb. If someone asked for a pressure cooker, ball bearings and fertilizer, do you just give them the part numbers? What about liability if there was an explosion? Curious what you guys that have been around for a while think?

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    Re: When shouldn't you give advice... because of safety concerns???

    I keep telling one of my customers to turn down his acetylene regulator. He has it pegged. "Never had a problem yet" he says. It's gotten to the point where I just leave when he gets out the torch. I don't even want to be around to make the 911 call.
    My name's not Jim....

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    Re: When shouldn't you give advice... because of safety concerns???

    Man that's a tough situation when he won't listen to you.

    I think I would have sold him a propane rosebud to eliminate the problem?
    Sales pitch could have been 'saving money and solving the problem' - double win
    (I like running propane)

    Giving him the Victor number was a good solution too - hearing it twice might have sunk in.
    Dave J.

    Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~

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    Re: When shouldn't you give advice... because of safety concerns???

    By giving the Victor numbed the liability is off your shoulders after you told him it was not safe people tend to forget.
    John

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    Re: When shouldn't you give advice... because of safety concerns???

    I don't sell anything, I just give technical support, certs, equipment advice and stuff like that. The guy I was talking to and wouldn't listen was a branch manager at one of the stores!

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    Re: When shouldn't you give advice... because of safety concerns???

    Branch manager without basic safety knowledge? Yikes!
    Dave J.

    Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~

    Syncro 350
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    Re: When shouldn't you give advice... because of safety concerns???

    Quote Originally Posted by Welder Dave View Post
    I work in tech. support for welding equipment and supplies and had a bit of a dilemma today. One of the branches I deal with had called me last week about a customers regulators freezing when using a large rosebud and wanted high flow regulators. I asked him to get me some more information on if the oxygen, acetylene or both regulators were freezing and what size of rosebud the guy was using. I also asked if he was using more than 1 acetylene cylinder with a manifold? He called back today, couldn't tell me which regulators were freezing (I assumed both from what he was telling me) but it was a very large rosebud on a truck out in the bush using only 1 acet. cylinder. He said the guy was using the large size HD Victor regulators. I have never heard of regulators freezing using a rosebud, in the summer no less. I tried to explain to him how dangerous it was to withdraw too much acetylene, too fast from a cylinder and it was like talking to a wall. I found some higher flow regulators and then he wanted to know all the flow rates. I again explained how dangerous it was to use only 1 cylinder and he tells me the guy has been doing this for 30 years. I responded it only takes one explosion! He said the guy wants to set up another rosebud the same way and asked if there's a kit. I finally just gave him Victors number so he could get all the technical data from them. I hope they also told him how dangerous it is. I talked to my boss about it and he just said we have to try and help the branches out. I don't think he realized how dangerous it was either. When do you say no, I can't help you? It was like being asked how to set up a potential bomb. If someone asked for a pressure cooker, ball bearings and fertilizer, do you just give them the part numbers? What about liability if there was an explosion? Curious what you guys that have been around for a while think?
    most customer support phone calls are recorded for just that reason..liability..you should tell him flat out that is a dangerous practice and you cannot assist in giving instruction for dangerous practices and leave it at that...and even tell him its a liability if the person gets hurt...
    Of all the things I lost I miss my mind the most...
    I know just enough about everything to be dangerous......
    You cant cure stupid..only kill it...

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    Re: When shouldn't you give advice... because of safety concerns???

    It doesn't help when your boss doesn't really understand how serious it is.

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    Re: When shouldn't you give advice... because of safety concerns???

    Quote Originally Posted by Boostinjdm View Post
    It's gotten to the point where I just leave when he gets out the torch. I don't even want to be around to make the 911 call.
    When anyone is using a torch I find myself going to find something else to do if possible. I don't trust anyone with one as well as in most other areas.


    Of course I would also tell all parties. "Hey man is that freedom rock? Well turn it up man!" Just saying.

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    Re: When shouldn't you give advice... because of safety concerns???

    It sound like he was using propane. Propane does freeze up at high withdrawal rates. Not sure about acetylene freezing. I have always been afraid to turn it up high enough to find out (that's dangerous)

    Smart move on your part! Call Victor...
    Miller Dynasty 350
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    Re: When shouldn't you give advice... because of safety concerns???

    Quote Originally Posted by crab fisherman View Post
    It sound like he was using propane. Propane does freeze up at high withdrawal rates. Not sure about acetylene freezing. I have always been afraid to turn it up high enough to find out (that's dangerous)

    Smart move on your part! Call Victor...
    Nice call on that one Crabby. Or it might be a good call.

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    Re: When shouldn't you give advice... because of safety concerns???

    I have a question did he have the acetylene laying down.
    John

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    Re: When shouldn't you give advice... because of safety concerns???

    Wouldn't think he'd have the acetylene laying down but it was definitely acetylene. I have a suspicion this branch manager never even bothered asking the guy the questions I needed answered. A lot of times the sales people feel stupid if they have to go back to the customer to get more info or clarification on things so end up not calling them. I was just really taken aback by his total disregard to how dangerous this set up could be. He's been doing this for 30 years, just give me the part numbers basically. If there would have been any stink raised and they wanted to get on my case for not helping the guy, I might have had an allie in the head guy for the whole facility I'm at. He's a welder by trade. Acetylene withdrawal rates and O/A dangers is about the first thing they teach you in school.

  14. #14
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    Re: When shouldn't you give advice... because of safety concerns???

    Quote Originally Posted by Welder Dave View Post
    Acetylene withdrawal rates and O/A dangers is about the first thing they teach you in school.
    Heck, it's even taught in high school - pretty close to the first day
    Dave J.

    Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~

    Syncro 350
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    Tried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.

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    Re: When shouldn't you give advice... because of safety concerns???

    I found this article today in a quick search. It has a paragraph of exactly what I was dealing with. I showed it briefly to my boss before he went home for the day. I think he finally realized I wasn't kidding it was very dangerous. Earlier we had a group meeting to discuss a few things and after he talked to me alone. He was telling us we shouldn't give out vendors phone numbers. It's a lot easier for Victor tech. support to deal with someone directly and they can get the numbers off the internet themselves anyway. Some of the policies they try to push are kind of stupid.

    http://www.thefabricator.com/article...fety-knowledge

    Here's the paragraph I especially liked:

    "A favorite story is about a distributor representative who called in because one of his customers could not get enough acetylene to do the job. The technical representative he talked to recommended a new, larger acetylene regulator. The next day the distributor representative reported that the new regulator wasn't working. When asked how many cylinders were being used in the heavy heating job they were attempting, the representative answered, "One 300-cubic-foot cylinder." Failure of the regulator probably saved the cylinder from reaching the explosive point."
    Last edited by Welder Dave; 06-17-2015 at 08:58 PM.

  16. #16
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    Re: When shouldn't you give advice... because of safety concerns???

    I always thought laying the bottle down was a no-no. Not so according to the article. I think I will keep mine up just for the hell of it though.

  17. #17
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    Re: When shouldn't you give advice... because of safety concerns???

    I think they're referring to transporting it. Laying it on it's side makes it even easier for the acetone to leak out. It's too bad the guy the called. If he would have e-mailed I could have done a little research and sent him that article.

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