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Thread: Thermal arc porta feed 17a feeder

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    Thermal arc porta feed 17a feeder

    I'm looking at purchasing an older suitcase wire feeder. The thermal arc porta feed 17a. In my research I find the manual saying it will run on any cv or cc/cv power supply. I can't find anything that tells me it's a voltage sensing feeder that will run specifically on a cc power supply. Anyone have any experience with this unit running on a cc only power supply?
    The manual for the thermal arc hefty 2 suitcase feeder does specifically state it will run on a cc power supply, powered across the arc and voltage sensing. But I just can't find this info for the porta feed 17a suitcase feeder. The owner says it will run on a cc power source but I want to confirm this myself before making the purchase. Thanks.
    Last edited by snoeproe; 08-09-2015 at 09:04 AM.
    Jason
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    Re: Thermal arc porta feed 17a feeder

    Looks to be it runs off 115 VAC. This one has Hobart branding, but they're likely the same. Can't say if it's an energized contactor or not, but it's not a big deal to hook it up either way. Being its a constant speed feeder (at least it appears to be from here) it will only run off CV power sources. Can't say for sure tho and the manual didn't really get specific about it.

    Here's a discussion about it too. I think Scott (Brand X) owned one, or possibly did at one time, him and Don (DDA52) are discussing it here.

    http://www.hobartwelders.com/weldtal...p/t-18009.html

    Here's a Victor manual on it. Looks to be the same thing.

    http://victortechnologies.com/IM_Upl...430429_402.pdf
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    Last edited by 7A749; 08-09-2015 at 09:51 AM.

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    Re: Thermal arc porta feed 17a feeder

    Yes. This is what I figured. I have viewed the Victor manual already. It isn't really clear on the questions I have in regards to power supply. I'll have to pass on it seeing as I don't have a cv power supply to run it.
    Jason
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    Re: Thermal arc porta feed 17a feeder

    I had two.. hooked one up to my Shopmate for a bit.. The manual says CV and CV-CC power source in so many words. What it is really is telling you is it's for a CV power source only.. Great little two roll feeders anyway.. Had one also hooked up to a Esab 350 MPI, and Thermal-arc MST-400 all are CV-CC power supplies.. (ran on CV)

    http://victortechnologies.com/IM_Upl...430429_402.pdf


    I was able to buy two at different times. Both new from Ebay, and about $300 to $400.. What a nice feeder for that price..
    Last edited by Brand X; 08-09-2015 at 10:13 AM.
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    Re: Thermal arc porta feed 17a feeder

    Quote Originally Posted by Brand X View Post
    I had two.. hooked one up to my Shopmate for a bit.. The manual says CV and CV-CC power source in so many words. What it is really is telling you is it's for a CV power source only.. Great little two roll feeders anyway.. Had one also hooked up to a Esab 350 MPI, and Thermal-arc MST-400 all are CV-CC power supplies.. (ran on CV)

    http://victortechnologies.com/IM_Upl...430429_402.pdf


    I was able to buy two at different times. Both new from Ebay, and about $300 to $400.. What a nice feeder for that price..
    Sounds like it Scott. I figured by the discussion you had with Don then that you either had one or had familiarity with them.

    I figure it's just a standard Miller type contact closure then? You could run that off of just about anything, even a hack wired wall outlet setup if need be. I've seen a few older 10E-30A Miller feeders run off Bobcats like that. Connect the drive to the weld current, then just pick up power for the motor off any 115 outlet. In my experience, if it is a constant speed only drive, it will have to run off CV. Still, there's a wide range of machinery that will run that unit by the sounds of it.

    Snoeproe..... what is the price on it? It may be worth picking up if it's cheap. You can modify the connector cord to support a variety of different CV machines. It wouldn't be hard and if were only talking a couple few hundred bux, that's a great price for a feeder like that.

    Be a great excuse to buy a CV power source then

    IMHO of course
    Last edited by 7A749; 08-09-2015 at 11:04 AM.

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    Re: Thermal arc porta feed 17a feeder

    Steve, you can wire for 120 volt contacts too.(Yes wired for closing contactor from the factory) Pulled power from the wall on the Shopmate. Esab was a bit different, and I needed help from Dea at JustArc to wire up.. ( had help from here from our tech here, but Dea put it into English for us laymen.. Both were saying the same thing.. Told me some Miller's can wire up the same way.. It was about turning on the 115 volt contactor in the machine.. Interesting to say the least.

    Still have the email...

    Scott,

    Sorry about all of the delay, I am old school when I try to read and draw schematics. For the past few days I have been on the run and using my phone.
    Your diagram may not work. I would recommend the following;

    Change your feeder back to "contact closure" and wire as follows moving the Thermal Arc wires to the ESAB pins;

    Esab Thermal Arc

    A 115 vac hot E and A
    B 115 vac neutral F
    C Contactor B
    D Ground G

    The reason for this is that when Miller and Esab use this three wire system it is easy to get the 115vac neutral in the wrong place and it will drive you nuts trying to figure out why it should work being AC but there is no "polarity" or "difference of potential". Or worse you put 115 on top of a 115 trying to get out!

    Again sorry for the delay, keeping you up and running in a timely manner is important to both of us. I am happy to help and look forward to hearing from you again. I would not think of charging you for this if it helps and you come back later...or spread the word, thanks
    Take care
    Dea
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    Re: Thermal arc porta feed 17a feeder

    Quote Originally Posted by 7A749 View Post
    Sounds like it Scott. I figured by the discussion you had with Don then that you either had one or had familiarity with them.


    Snoeproe..... what is the price on it? It may be worth picking up if it's cheap. You can modify the connector cord to support a variety of different CV machines. It wouldn't be hard and if were only talking a couple few hundred bux, that's a great price for a feeder like that.

    Be a great excuse to buy a CV power source then

    IMHO of course
    Guy wants $500 for it. I think I'll just keep my eyes open for a voltage sensing feeder.
    Jason
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    Re: Thermal arc porta feed 17a feeder

    Pass for sure.

    I'm sure it's worth that to someone, but not to me...

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    Re: Thermal arc porta feed 17a feeder

    Hello friends I bought 3 cheap thermal arc 17A, I am repairing them of the 3 I have 1 repaired. I can use this feeder with a miller XMT304 CC / CV welder. The connector has 5 cables. the 3 current and ground and 2 more. How should I connect it to that machine? Greetings from Venezuela Thanks for the help

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    Re: Thermal arc porta feed 17a feeder

    diagrams do not appear to be available on line any more for the 17A.
    I might have some in hard copy, will have to look when I get time.
    If you have figured out the function of each wire in the control cable I can help you connect to the XMT unless it is a new one.
    I am pretty sure it needs 115 volts to operate. On other older feeders. of the five wires two should be power, one is ground and the other two are contactor control.
    If Your XMT has two circuit breakers on the back panel then you have 115 volts in the 14 pin feeder plug if only 1 then only 24 volts is available.
    In the XMT owners manual there is a chart showing how each pin is used.
    There is a couple of ways a feeder can be connected to the XMT.
    one way uses an isolated contactor control and the other uses a voltage return.
    You should be able to download owners manuals from millerswelds.com.
    look at the s-52 feeder for a 117 volt feeder. s-22 for a 24 volt feeder.
    Both use a hot return. you can get 115 volts from pins I and K.
    you can use A to B for isolated (dry) contactor control.

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    Re: Thermal arc porta feed 17a feeder

    Found a copy of the owner's manual.
    send me your e-mail by private message and I will send it to you.
    these units do operate on 115 volts. pins e and F . pin G is ground.
    A and B is contactor control no power, just relay contact closure.

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    Re: Thermal arc porta feed 17a feeder

    ccawgc,

    I took some pictures of my ThermalArc Fabricator and 17A feeder that I PM'ed you about (to see if you might have manuals). The welder if a Fabricator with analog dials and I haven't seen any other pictures of one like mine. I've messed around with it, and I think that it will weld, but I haven't actually tried it. Problems that I've had (and think that I've fixed) were a missing 7-1/4A fuse on the welder front panel (replaced w/10A button breaker), stuck contactor in the machine (freed up) and a bad selector switch on the feeder (3-position switch - bypassed).
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    Last edited by Denis G; 12-27-2020 at 07:05 PM.

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    Re: Thermal arc porta feed 17a feeder

    Quote Originally Posted by Denis G View Post
    ccawgc,

    I took some pictures of my ThermalArc Fabricator and 17A feeder that I PM'ed you about (to see if you might have manuals). The welder if a Fabricator with analog dials and I haven't seen any other pictures of one like mine. I've messed around with it, and I think that it will weld, but I haven't actually tried it. Problems that I've had (and think that I've fixed) were a missing 7-1/4A fuse on the welder front panel (replaced w/10A button breaker), stuck contactor in the machine (freed up) and a bad selector switch on the feeder (3-position switch - bypassed).

    Hi Dennis G, most of the faults are.-Contactor, .- Voltage selector or false electrical contacts. Every month the machine must be blown. and every year it is advisable to clean all the electrical contacts. greetings and enjoy this christmas. I wish you success in 2021

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    Re: Thermal arc porta feed 17a feeder

    This is a Hobart in TA Clothing if that helps.
    Thermal Arc 320SP ( Lorch )
    Cobra Pythons
    Thermal Arc 300 AC/DC ( Sanrex )
    ESAB 301i AC/DC ( Lorch )
    Thermal Arc 161STL ( WTL )
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    Victor Gas Apps.
    Boxes and boxes of welding crap.

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    Re: Thermal arc porta feed 17a feeder

    Humberto,
    When I got it and took the covers off, it was very dirty inside so I did use compressed air to blow it out. I had to figure out how it worked because it wasn't giving me any voltage on the output lugs no matter what I did. I think that I got the contactor to work by poking at it with a wooden stick.

    I haven't opened up a lot of welders, but this one seems to have an unusual transformer that looks like a "J" on its side.

    Also the circuit board that controls the cooling fan in the welder was jumpered by the previous owner and runs constantly. I left it that way. It probably more noisy, but I guess safer to run cooler

    Member ccawgc sent me copies of my manuals (thank you again!), so I may poke around with it a bit more. I may be modifying the front panel to work around the faulty WireFeed/Purge selector switch.

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    Re: Thermal arc porta feed 17a feeder

    Quote Originally Posted by Rondo View Post
    This is a Hobart in TA Clothing if that helps.
    Rondo, do you know what the equivalent Hobart model is to my welder or are you just talking about general features found on Hobarts of that vintage.

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    Re: Thermal arc porta feed 17a feeder

    Might be the RC-300

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    Re: Thermal arc porta feed 17a feeder

    Quote Originally Posted by Denis G View Post
    Rondo, do you know what the equivalent Hobart model is to my welder or are you just talking about general features found on Hobarts of that vintage.
    Call Mike Huelsman in Ohio. He's a Hobart TA Guru. 419 953-5964. He was around when Hobart disbanded and was re-badged TA. ITW got the smaller machines and Thermadyne got the large ones. He's a major archive and service center. Good Luck
    Thermal Arc 320SP ( Lorch )
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    ESAB 301i AC/DC ( Lorch )
    Thermal Arc 161STL ( WTL )
    Thermal Arc 190S ( Sanrex )
    Cut Master 82, 42. Cut45 ( WTL )
    Victor Gas Apps.
    Boxes and boxes of welding crap.

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    Re: Thermal arc porta feed 17a feeder

    Quote Originally Posted by ccawgc View Post
    Might be the RC-300
    I did a web search and found pictures of RC-300 and RC-301 machines, and while they have similar features (analog dials, selector switches, amperage range), they don't have the same panel layout as mine and all the machines that I found are 3-phase. The Hobart RC-300 machines seem to be direct competitors to Miller CP-300s. It looks like the RC machines might be cousins to mine (some of the artwork looks to be the same), but they are not twins. Interestingly, I found an interesting 3-phase to single phase conversion (Haas-Kamp conversion) that I never knew about for those machines. Someone on the practicalmachinist website showed one on a RC-301 machine with pictures of the internals:
    https://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...0/#post2099877
    Last edited by Denis G; 01-01-2021 at 07:46 AM.

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    Re: Thermal arc porta feed 17a feeder

    Quote Originally Posted by Rondo View Post
    Call Mike Huelsman in Ohio. He's a Hobart TA Guru. 419 953-5964. He was around when Hobart disbanded and was re-badged TA. ITW got the smaller machines and Thermadyne got the large ones. He's a major archive and service center. Good Luck
    Thank you for that contact. That might come in handy.

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    Re: Thermal arc porta feed 17a feeder

    IF you need a owner's manual for a Hobart welder. ITW Hobart has all the old Hobart manuals and if you call them they will email what you need for free or mail you a hard copy for $15 last time I looked. Just go to the Hobart welder web site and get the phone number or use the contact page.

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    Re: Thermal arc porta feed 17a feeder

    Quote Originally Posted by ccawgc View Post
    IF you need a owner's manual for a Hobart welder. ITW Hobart has all the old Hobart manuals and if you call them they will email what you need for free or mail you a hard copy for $15 last time I looked. Just go to the Hobart welder web site and get the phone number or use the contact page.
    I'll remember that. Seems like support for many old machines gets abandoned after mergers and the machines become orphans. I was pretty sure that I'd never see a manual for my Fabricator. Sometimes it's nice to be wrong.

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    Re: Thermal arc porta feed 17a feeder

    I have to keep telling the ownership to leave my archives of old welders alone.
    With them I can fix a lot of the old machines be getting creative on parts.
    With out them we have no chance to fix them.

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