New to TIG

[juiceclone]

Just started using a tig machine, and find some questions right off.
? My torches have collets for 1/16 and 1/8 tungsten. I'm wondering which can I leave in the torch for all uses? I've been learning on the 1/16 (unknown) tungsten, because that,s what came with it. I read that as amps go up, larger tungsten is indicated. What's not mentioned is whether it's ok to go ahead and leave those in at lower amps ....lets say total range.. 60 to 200...steel/iron metals or aluminum.
? I also read "lanthanated" tungsten seems to be the current preferred general purpose one to use ??
? When doing a corner weld, the arc seems to wander away from the corner and up or across the base. Should I be fixing the tungsten out more to get it closer to the meeting point of the metals ....or not?...??
I'm sure my lack of knowledge will rattle some cages, but it don't hurt to ask before finding out some other way~

[Mr. Smith]

Let's start with 'What machine are you using?' Tungsten selection is predicated by material selection, machine type, and amperage. For example, aluminum is welded with AC. You can use pure tungsten for AC, however pure tungsten is not advisable for an inverter machine.

Lanthanated is recommended for AC from inverter machines because it undergoes less grain growth than other tungsten compositions.

This forum is always happy to help, but you'll need to supply more specific information.

[motolife313]

I use 3/32 tungsten for about 100 to 230 amps on DC, but I usually don't use over 200 amps on DC besides speed taking. 1/16 for 60 to 110 amps or so. For AL I use 1/8 gold tungsten alot. 3/32 for about 150 or less amps. Lets see a pic of your tungsten prep?

[shovelon]

The previous responder speak the truth.

I personally use 3/32" diameter in my 200 amp machine exclusively.

[juiceclone]

Ok let me clear up as much as possible
I do not weld as a living , I'm retired
I learned oxy/acet and stick in the 1960s from classes and a guy named Franz.
I dislike MIG because by the time you have all the variables sorted into a good weld, you used up more metals than that which you were welding in the first place..mig has it's place in production environments, but not for me I have one, use it when it's convenient.

I weld because
(1) I need to put two things (back) together !!!
(2) I enjoy welding .. it's sort of "zen" to me ..concentrating all your attention on a puddle of molten metal 1/4 inch across and reading the eye correctly!

Learning TIG now is necessary because so many things today are aluminum/alloy and conventional methods, while they can be made to work, don't do the job well
I'm not at this time looking for the perfect bead just versatility ... I'll figure the rest out as needed

My questions were:
? Since I don't have a 3/32 .093 collet ? can I leave a 1/8 tungsten in and use it for all applications, even if they are lower amperage? why or why not?

? "lanthanated" tungsten seems to be the current preferred GENERAL PURPOSE one ...to leave in and use ?? why or why not?

? When doing a corner weld, the arc seems to wander away from the corner and up or across the base. Should I be fixing the tungsten out more to get it closer into the corner of the metals ....or not?...??

I have a Lotos TIG200ACDC unit that does allow for adjusting +/- percentage when ac tig is selected
1/16 Tungsten was sharpened to start, and immediately balled in use on alum testing

Re; the Chinese Lotos .. refer to line two above. :>(

[skyboltone]

I'm not sure you can get reliable "one shot" information here or anywhere else for that matter. No matter what, you will create a pile of scrap with beads of various qualities on all surfaces. Start with scrap to begin with and it won't hurt so bad. Don't practice/learn on projects that you expect to turn out well; or so the saying goes hundreds of times on this forum.

Have you discovered "Welding Tips and Tricks"? http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com Have you looked into the many commercially produced videos that discuss every question you've asked in detail? Give that a try. Really. The answers to your questions are more nuanced that you think.

[shovelon]

Yes, 2% lanthanated 3/32" diameter could be your all purpose/osha compliant/environmentally friendly/readily available electrode. If 2% thoriated was banned tomarrow, that is what I would choose.

This is a good source. http://www.usaweld.com/Tungsten-s/59.htm

[juiceclone]

Checked them out...Thanks for both those references ..

[Oscar]

My questions were:
? Since I don't have a 3/32 .093 collet ? can I leave a 1/8 tungsten in and use it for all applications, even if they are lower amperage? why or why not?

? "lanthanated" tungsten seems to be the current preferred GENERAL PURPOSE one ...to leave in and use ?? why or why not?

? When doing a corner weld, the arc seems to wander away from the corner and up or across the base. Should I be fixing the tungsten out more to get it closer into the corner of the metals ....or not?...??

I have a Lotos TIG200ACDC unit that does allow for adjusting +/- percentage when ac tig is selected
1/16 Tungsten was sharpened to start, and immediately balled in use on alum testing

Re; the Chinese Lotos .. refer to line two above. :>(

1. Tungsten diameter depends mostly on amperage range, but DC or AC welding also plays a role. Google "tungsten diameter amperage" and select Images after hitting the search button.

2. Arc wander (especially in AC welding on a machine with un-adjustable AC Freq) can be problematic.
Three factors that help:

• Longer taper on the tungsten, try 3x the diameter for the taper length, with a small flat on the tip.
• very tight arc length. If the sides of the parent metals are closer to the sides of the tungsten than the inside corner is to the tip of the tungsten, guess where it's gonna go? To the surfaces that are closer.
• You need to hammer down the amperage. This means you can't practice on a project. You need dedicated practice pieces. Bumping up the amperage will help straighten out the arc

Those are just the basics. You need to have a good technique down. You can't be lifting the tig torch up and down as you're scooting down the piece. Thats one area that can cause arc wander. Remember the part about tight arc length? To have a good tight arc length, you need consistency. Shaking hands and you might as well be painting a wall by throwing an open gallon of paint at it. You need precision movements.

[Joker11]

I think it would be a lot easier to establish an arc and maintain control on smaller items with a smaller tungsten electrode. I don't think anyone is welding at 2amps with a 1/8th" electrode.

[Oxford]

Like previously mentioned, if you are looking for a 1 size fits all tungsten, 3/32" would be the size for that machine. Just order the collets. In reality, it is not that hard or time consuming to change the torch over for a different size tungsten.

[juiceclone]

Thanks .. came to the same conclusion ..ordered the collet and tungsten already.
Found aluminum welds quite well !
don't like using the pedal though. My solution below (if the pix loads )

[Heartdoc]

I am no expert- actually the furthest thing from one, but to me it seems that holding the torch that way does not allow for fine movements. You would be using larger muscle groups, which are harder to control for the fine adjustments needed to tig. But as I said, I am far far from knowledgeable in this area.

[juiceclone]

actually, it feels like an ox/acet torch but much lighter and just (to me) as agile as the naked tig torch handle which is inside the alloy sides. As u see it's not beautiful, cobbled together with scraps. I thought about a form fit handle, etc. but this works as intended. Trigger starts arc and pulling it further increases amp just like pedal but more instinctive. If someone had a mind to, and maybe a 3d printer, they could produce a much more compact, polished tool. :>))

[Sharon Needles]

Honestly, I'd ditch that contraption and just learn to use the pedal or get a torch mount thumb wheel amp controller. The way you have to hold that thing is not going to give you the dexterity required to hold a tight arc and consistent travel speed, just like Heartdoc was saying. I'm thinking that your wandering arc problem is probably from too long an arc. You need to keep the tip of the tungsten no farther than 1/16" from the puddle, closer is even better.

[Barn118]

Yes, 2% lanthanated 3/32" diameter could be your all purpose/osha compliant/environmentally friendly/readily available electrode. If 2% thoriated was banned tomarrow, that is what I would choose.

This is a good source. http://www.usaweld.com/Tungsten-s/59.htm

Exactly!

[shovelon]

Thanks .. came to the same conclusion ..ordered the collet and tungsten already.
Found aluminum welds quite well !
don't like using the pedal though. My solution below (if the pix loads )

Very clever. That could work well for Tig/spot welding on sheet metal with a nozzle standoff.

[miller300a]

I like the innovation, but for me it would be to large to be effective with the type of welding the TIG is really good at:

1) Fine work/thin metal
2) AC Welding Aluminum

I can't imagnine ever trying to weld an inside corner with that on my torch.

But, use what works for you. The foot pedal is really good once you get used to it.

I really like a water cooled small torch vs the larger air cooled torch, but it's not nearly as mobile either so it depends on what you're doing with it. What I tend to do is used the water cooled torch with the 1/8 and the small (125A Rated) air cooled with the 3/32 and smaller.


Anyway, regarding your tungsten choice, I think that the 3/32 2% Lanthanated will be your go-to for most stuff. Really fine and you have the 1/16, over 200A or heavy use on AC use the 1/8.

I found the 1/8 2% Lanth better than the 2% Thor on AC even on a transformer machine. I wouldn't consider pure, ever. So, 2% Lanth all the way. I just happened to have a tonne of 2% thor from when I purchased my welder, so I use it for DC, but I'm kinda getting lazy on that...2% La does a nice job on DC too.

Chay

[juiceclone]

Since I have not yet changed the plug on my "gun" to match my new welder, the foot pedal is what I'm practicing with now. My point is, I don't ever sit down and weld. It's always done squatting, kneeling, or under something. Or as now, I'm standing on one leg and running the pedal with the other foot...nothing stable about that.!.
I realize torch size matters, and I could just use the naked tig torch with amps set at the machine, but I've already seen that available amp control makes all the difference. As an old ox/acet hand, if u needed to reduce heat, you just pulled back a bit...you can guess what happens when instinct kicked in and I did that with a tig.
While I can appreciate the quality and accuracy of sitting at a bench with all variables tended to and perfection being the result, that's not what I need to do.
The gadgets with a knob or slider on the torch require more fingers on the hand than most people have. I can't see someone dialing amps up or down diddling a knob and holding down the switch while maintaining arc space, position, and travel movement plus adding filler.

[Willie B]

Get a gas lens set up for 3/32. I use whatever variety of tungsten I have around. I did make the change from transformer welder to inverter so I gave away my pure tungsten. Most of the time with aluminum you will want 3/32" ground very blunt. Knock off the point, let it round a bit.

[juiceclone]

Thanks for all tips so far! I've found alum not so hard to weld (thankfully). I do have difficulty with thin stuff 1/16" outside corners. Stuff disappears before fusing. It's cheap homedepot corner stock, but still ?

[Oscar]

actually, it feels like an ox/acet torch

Just don't treat it like one. TIG is much more unforgiving with regards to variations in hand movements because an electric arc does not behave exactly the same way a combustion flame arc does. Tiny variations in arc length can dump more heat into part spread (because the machine spits out more voltage) out over a larger area, which is counter-intuitive if you apply a "flame" approach to your thinking, and this leads to all sorts of problems with ugly, oxidized beads that aren't nice and shiny "like on the internet pics" among other things. To become proficient at TIG, one generally needs to master the art of holding a tight, consistent arc length with the correct torch angle. This generally produces the best results.

[juiceclone]

Oh, and re: the 1/16 stock, I get the impression my 1/8 al rod is way too thick for that use. Would using .032 mig al wire improve the result.? .... or too thin?

[motolife313]

For welding 1/16 AL use 1/16 rod maybe 3/32

[juiceclone]

(Aluminum weld only) I mentioned in another post re: playing the torch ahead of the joint an inch or two to preheat. The response was "maybe to clean dirty ally only." I read and have verified that preheating of joint/material seems to make noticeably better beads and fusion between different thickness materials. So again, is there any detrimental effect to using the torch in very quick sweeps back and forth on a joint to preheat it just before running a bead?? I ask as I still am not making reliable joints in 1/16 alum angles, using lap and outside corner joints. I find that heating all allows lower amp setting to be used and less often blow thru the thin stock. The main reason for getting an ac/dc tig was alloy versatility, not really available with mig. I can mig these pieces together, and there is a bead, but I can see the fusion is really crappy.!
Also, has anyone tried the alloy "brazing" "the guy with you can do anything with this and a propane torch" rods using tig to heat the base metals?